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Well, this didn't take very long...
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So much for being "no more dangerous than a chainring in a pileup" :-/

http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/...roubaix-crash-220593

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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You can't cut your calf on a chainring?

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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [ZenTriBrett] [ In reply to ]
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ZenTriBrett wrote:
You can't cut your calf on a chainring?

When pros crash, they're usually in the big ring and the chain helps protect...besides, chainrings usually don't keep spinning at high rates during a crash. It's the spinning edge that is the danger (as any shop mechanic will tell you.)

When was the last time you heard of a pro rider being taken to the hospital to surgically repair a chainring injury? And EVERY bike has a chainring. Only a small percentage of the bikes at P-R had discs.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I suppose we could actually wait and let it get passed the "reportedly" stage before assuming it was the disc brake.

Ian
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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If he'd had disc brakes he could have avoided the crash altogether.
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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I wonder why they machine disc rotors with two quite sharp 90 deg edges? And I wonder if this accident would have been prevented if the edge of the disc was fully rounded or radiused?

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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I wonder why they machine disc rotors with two quite sharp 90 deg edges? And I wonder if this accident would have been prevented if the edge of the disc was fully rounded or radiused?

I suspect radiusing the full edge may actually make it more dangerous when spinning...sounds like something for a Mythbusters-like test using pig parts.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [tkos] [ In reply to ]
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tkos wrote:
I suppose we could actually wait and let it get passed the "reportedly" stage before assuming it was the disc brake.

I bet the nature of the injury could be a big clue in determining that...

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
If he'd had disc brakes he could have avoided the crash altogether.

You forgot the pink font.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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That makes sense, but then why don't they radius both of the edges? Or radius them more?

Sounds like they're gonna start ...


( totally off topic, but is it just me, or is the advanced editor on this forum broken ... ? )

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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
That makes sense, but then why don't they radius both of the edges? Or radius them more?

Sounds like they're gonna start ...


( totally off topic, but is it just me, or is the advanced editor on this forum broken ... ? )

Yep, I cannot get the advanced editor to work either. Have to switch to basic

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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
I wonder why they machine disc rotors with two quite sharp 90 deg edges? And I wonder if this accident would have been prevented if the edge of the disc was fully rounded or radiused?

The sharp edges, along the various waves, cuts and other contours, are designed to "machine" the pad to keep it clean and flat for more consistent braking and less noise...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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A disc is only spinning at ~1/5 the edge velocity at the tire. I don't think that the rotation of the rotor is a significant factor in cutting injury after considering a fall onto the sharp rotor edge.

I think that at a minimum the disc outer edge should be fully radiused. A 2mm rounded edge is dramatically less likely to create an injury than the sharp edge currently on discs. It would also be prudent to have a solid disc or one with no apertures where a finger could be trapped.

People are crashing all over the place in cyclocross with disc brakes.

Edit: Disk to disc per grammar comment by James Haycraft
Last edited by: Pantelones: Apr 12, 16 19:16
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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Pantelones wrote:
A disc is only spinning at ~1/5 the edge velocity at the tire. I don't think that the rotation of the rotor is a significant factor in cutting injury after considering a fall onto the sharp rotor edge.

I think that at a minimum the disc outer edge should be fully radiused. A 2mm rounded edge is dramatically less likely to create an injury than the sharp edge currently on disks. It would also be prudent to have a solid disc or one with no apertures where a finger could be trapped.

People are crashing all over the place in cyclocross with disc brakes.

Another option is to ban disc brakes and continue with the proven technology of rim brakes :)

Cyclocross probably has a few things going for it in terms of disc injury risk. Slower speeds, more spread out riders leading to fewer pileups and more clothing.
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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DarkSpeedWorks wrote:
That makes sense, but then why don't they radius both of the edges? Or radius them more?

Sounds like they're gonna start ...

They could blunt it by using a piece of rubber. And then inflate that piece of rubber to make sure it's properly round and has a soft balloon shape to prevent injuries.

DarkSpeedWorks wrote:

( totally off topic, but is it just me, or is the advanced editor on this forum broken ... ? )

It is for me too. I had to use the basic one. I couldn't find the sarcasm button either :) Just "b", "u", "i",...
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Pantelones] [ In reply to ]
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Pantelones wrote:
A disc is only spinning at ~1/5 the edge velocity at the tire. I don't think that the rotation of the rotor is a significant factor in cutting injury after considering a fall onto the sharp rotor edge.

So on a flat road that's 10 km/h. On a downhill it'll be 20 km/h (but large pileups are less common on a twisty downhill) That's not nothing. We could test it with a piece of salami (and then eat the result...)

Pantelones wrote:
I think that at a minimum the disc outer edge should be fully radiused. A 2mm rounded edge is dramatically less likely to create an injury than the sharp edge currently on disks. It would also be prudent to have a solid disc or one with no apertures where a finger could be trapped.

If you do that you remove a lot of the mud shedding abilities. The apertures are there to prevent premature wear of the pads. That's important in Paris Roubaix. (edit: the mud apertures are tiny)

The apertures might be important in wet weather riding too.

The holes are traditionally good for heat dissipation.
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Just in January... http://www.cyclingweekly.co.uk/...d-disc-brakes-208497 And people like you tried to turn it against discs when it's purely a chainring injury
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [jpwiki] [ In reply to ]
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I think its time we all start racing in full leathers gp style ;-)
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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cobbles themselves create a few injuries

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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Jctriguy wrote:
Pantelones wrote:
A disc is only spinning at ~1/5 the edge velocity at the tire. I don't think that the rotation of the rotor is a significant factor in cutting injury after considering a fall onto the sharp rotor edge.

I think that at a minimum the disc outer edge should be fully radiused. A 2mm rounded edge is dramatically less likely to create an injury than the sharp edge currently on disks. It would also be prudent to have a solid disc or one with no apertures where a finger could be trapped.

People are crashing all over the place in cyclocross with disc brakes.


Another option is to ban disc brakes and continue with the proven technology of rim brakes :)

Cyclocross probably has a few things going for it in terms of disc injury risk. Slower speeds, more spread out riders leading to fewer pileups and more clothing.
Proven in what regard?
Both brakes have been proven to slow down the bike. Disks have, I believe, been proven to do it better. Have disks been proven to cause more or worse injuries? Not that I know of.....it there were any examples, perhaps they'd be used instead of hijacking chainring injury cases and suggesting a correlation!?
People have been falling off mountain bikes for years, not mass peloton crashes perhaps but regardless, have there been huge numbers of horrible disk based injuries?
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Brake rotors on the mountain bike haven't been an issue when I have crumpled up on fast downhills. Last night I filleted a couple knuckles on some bladed spokes, them bastards can get you.

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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [uo5nVEtj9] [ In reply to ]
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uo5nVEtj9 wrote:

So on a flat road that's 10 km/h. On a downhill it'll be 20 km/h (but large pileups are less common on a twisty downhill) That's not nothing. We could test it with a piece of salami (and then eat the result...)

It's funny you should say that. I'm not sure if you're referencing this video or it's just a coincidence
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JplymlruPZ8

Cut to 2:45[/reply]
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
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MTBSully wrote:
Brake rotors on the mountain bike haven't been an issue when I have crumpled up on fast downhills. Last night I filleted a couple knuckles on some bladed spokes, them bastards can get you.

Are you doing those downhills while in a pack of riders?

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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Nope, but I have seen some pretty spectacular pile ups and never heard of a rotors severing limbs, things I have heard tearing people up include: the ground, broken cranks, broken pedal spindles, broken handle bars, broken frames, the ground, trees, fences pretty much everything save the spinning bits (spokes and rotors).

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Re: Well, this didn't take very long... [MTBSully] [ In reply to ]
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MTBSully wrote:
Nope, but I have seen some pretty spectacular pile ups and never heard of a rotors severing limbs, things I have heard tearing people up include: the ground, broken cranks, broken pedal spindles, broken handle bars, broken frames, the ground, trees, fences pretty much everything save the spinning bits (spokes and rotors).

Exactly...which points out the large differences in use cases...something which should always be kept in mind. Just because a certain technology is good for one discipline of cycling, it doesn't mean it's automatically appropriate for another.

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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