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Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet
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The world is full of amazing races. One of them is Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet. The race came back last season after 132 years on the sideline.
Many of the top long distance athletes will compete.
https://redbullnordenskioldsloppet.se/en/

In 2016 Jon Kristian Dahl won in front of Anders Aukland, time 8.35.16 using just doublpoling.


Member of Valhalla Racing Team
XC-skiing coach at Momentum Northwest
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Halvard wrote:
The world is full of amazing races. One of them is Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet. The race came back last season after 132 years on the sideline.
Many of the top long distance athletes will compete.
https://redbullnordenskioldsloppet.se/en/

In 2016 Jon Kristian Dahl won in front of Anders Aukland, time 8.35.16 using just doublpoling.
If I am understanding this correctly, then his triceps are bigger than my quads.

==============================================
The sign of intelligence is you are constantly wondering. Idiots are always dead sure about every damn thing they are doing in their life. - Vasudev
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [planetsbr] [ In reply to ]
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planetsbr wrote:
Halvard wrote:
The world is full of amazing races. One of them is Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet. The race came back last season after 132 years on the sideline.
Many of the top long distance athletes will compete.
https://redbullnordenskioldsloppet.se/en/

In 2016 Jon Kristian Dahl won in front of Anders Aukland, time 8.35.16 using just doublpoling.

If I am understanding this correctly, then his triceps are bigger than my quads.

In today's lclassic ong distance xc-skiing all races are won by just double poling.
This includes Vasaloppet and the Norwegian Birkie. The reason, it is faster.


Member of Valhalla Racing Team
XC-skiing coach at Momentum Northwest
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [planetsbr] [ In reply to ]
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planetsbr wrote:
Halvard wrote:
The world is full of amazing races. One of them is Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet. The race came back last season after 132 years on the sideline.
Many of the top long distance athletes will compete.
https://redbullnordenskioldsloppet.se/en/

In 2016 Jon Kristian Dahl won in front of Anders Aukland, time 8.35.16 using just doublpoling.

If I am understanding this correctly, then his triceps are bigger than my quads.

More like abs/psoas/lower back/shoulders/lats....triceps are just the end of the whip
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Personally I think this is basically stupid. Swimming got it right when during breast stroke guys started recovering over water and adding in dolphin kick....so they created a new event called butterfly.

XC skiing should just add a double poling event separately. The sport could preserve classic stride by only have painted of lines in between which it would be OK to double pole (say downhill only). If not you are forced to diagonal stride. In track they have race walking in swimming they have breast stroke. Classic/diagonal stride is a valid technique and it's a shame to see it not really "raced" anymore. Heck slow down the skis and make glide wax totally illegal in classic events and have a minimum length of pocket where you MUST have grip wax. If fomula 1 can do all kinds of things to preserve aspects of the sport, skiing can too. Swimming got rid of those stupid full body low drag suits. Heck, make them race on no wax fish scale skis if you have to force them to break into diagonal stride.
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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seems like these days most people will take on the "challenge" by covering a long distance really slowly.

race a sprint tri? nah... my first one will be an ironman.
do an all-out mile? nah... i'm going to skip a marathon and basically walk for 24 hours... i mean run an ultra!
compete in a criterium? nah... i'm going to "race" 200 miles.
race nordic sprints? nah...

i'm ok with any type of 'challenge', but it seems that there is SUCH reverence for "MOAR DISTANCE!!!!" to the point that anything short and intense is looked down upon. i wish there was some equality.

seems people would rather sit in an uncomfortable chair for 18 hours than go so hard for 3-8' and puke.
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Personally I think this is basically stupid. Swimming got it right when during breast stroke guys started recovering over water and adding in dolphin kick....so they created a new event called butterfly.

XC skiing should just add a double poling event separately. The sport could preserve classic stride by only have painted of lines in between which it would be OK to double pole (say downhill only). If not you are forced to diagonal stride. In track they have race walking in swimming they have breast stroke. Classic/diagonal stride is a valid technique and it's a shame to see it not really "raced" anymore. Heck slow down the skis and make glide wax totally illegal in classic events and have a minimum length of pocket where you MUST have grip wax. If fomula 1 can do all kinds of things to preserve aspects of the sport, skiing can too. Swimming got rid of those stupid full body low drag suits. Heck, make them race on no wax fish scale skis if you have to force them to break into diagonal stride.

Agree - but I think the best and most entertaining solution would be going back to alot more hilly courses. Double-poling doesnt cut it at sustained gradients of 10%++. More of that please!
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
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lovegoat wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Personally I think this is basically stupid. Swimming got it right when during breast stroke guys started recovering over water and adding in dolphin kick....so they created a new event called butterfly.

XC skiing should just add a double poling event separately. The sport could preserve classic stride by only have painted of lines in between which it would be OK to double pole (say downhill only). If not you are forced to diagonal stride. In track they have race walking in swimming they have breast stroke. Classic/diagonal stride is a valid technique and it's a shame to see it not really "raced" anymore. Heck slow down the skis and make glide wax totally illegal in classic events and have a minimum length of pocket where you MUST have grip wax. If fomula 1 can do all kinds of things to preserve aspects of the sport, skiing can too. Swimming got rid of those stupid full body low drag suits. Heck, make them race on no wax fish scale skis if you have to force them to break into diagonal stride.


Agree - but I think the best and most entertaining solution would be going back to alot more hilly courses. Double-poling doesnt cut it at sustained gradients of 10%++. More of that please!

If you look at the ski technology and the grooming technology from say 1988, it would be impossible even for these athletes to double pole for so long. The skis were slower in that advanced grinding and textures were not quite there yet. Glide waxes were also slower. Grooming was generally not as good (but getting there). Poles were heavier too. I'm semi serious taking from formula 1, but what if you have a classic only event, with no glide wax and fishscale bases. You just remove all the free speed from the technology and tell the guys to go race. It's not practical to have courses with 10% grades everywhere. It's not that the athletes have gotten that much "better" since 1992, 1994, 1998. If anything the athletes of that day at the peak of the EPO era had bigger engines to play around with (have a look at the Alpe d'Huez bike times or the 1500m world record, or many of the top marathon times) but they still had to use diagonal stride. The ski and wax technology today is just that much better that you barely need to break into a diagonal stride.

"Running on skis" is a valid technique. It's the only valid technique when things are ungroomed to start with and you're breaking your own trial, just like walking is a valid technique for humans to get around and breast stroke is a valid technique for survival in a lake or ocean....the other sports still "race" the slow techniques. Its kind of a shame that FIS has basically allowed this entire double pole thing to get out of hand. Skating is already double poling on top of a hockey skate stride. We don't need "another double pole event" on top of legs that are parallel to each other. Or if you want to have the double pole event, then fine, just have an actual classic ski event where maybe you outlaw any double poling (I know it sounds weird because the moment you get on a flat or downhill, then what do you do?). You can still technically diagonal stride downhill or eventually tuck.
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I don't see why everyone is so upset about double pole racing. It's the nature of sport.

A hilly slow sunny 50k will never be won using double pole. The holmenkollen for example has about 6000 ft of climbing over 50k. Good luck ever double poling that.

I'm an amateur hack skier and I would race that 220k race double pole. The chances of having decent kick over 220k in April? 0%

Also: I've really been working on my dp this year. You'd be surprised how often it's faster to scrape that kick wax off if you're upper body is fit.
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [xcskier66] [ In reply to ]
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xcskier66 wrote:
I don't see why everyone is so upset about double pole racing. It's the nature of sport.

A hilly slow sunny 50k will never be won using double pole. The holmenkollen for example has about 6000 ft of climbing over 50k. Good luck ever double poling that.

I'm an amateur hack skier and I would race that 220k race double pole. The chances of having decent kick over 220k in April? 0%

Also: I've really been working on my dp this year. You'd be surprised how often it's faster to scrape that kick wax off if you're upper body is fit.

You are right. It is all about the course and conditions.
Sundby chose to double pole in today's world cup relay. Not smart, he lost 11 seconds.
But in other races dp is faster if you are strong enough.

Also today's skiers have a lot more core strength than in the old days. Just look at how Anders Aukland has developed.

Long distance classic skiing has never been more popular. Visma Ski Classic is live on TV in several countries and many of the athletes are collecting a salary from their team just like in cycling.
Double poling has been good for the sport of xc-skiing.

Now I am heading off to the trails. Lots of snow in the Seattle area.


Member of Valhalla Racing Team
XC-skiing coach at Momentum Northwest
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Don't forget your inhaler or skin cream...the key to many Norwegians success ;-)
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [Halvard] [ In reply to ]
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Interesting points about double poling ... I am an amateur skier and slow racer (started three years ago at age 50) and started out exclusively skating because it was so fun. After two years of training I realized that the only way to skate fast is to be really strong at double poling. So I have come around to appreciate that aspect of the sport.

Having a ski erg and using it regularly has been just as important (if not more so) than all of my mileage skate roller skiing during summer/fall, it seems ....
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [tetonrider] [ In reply to ]
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tetonrider wrote:
seems like these days most people will take on the "challenge" by covering a long distance really slowly.

race a sprint tri? nah... my first one will be an ironman.
do an all-out mile? nah... i'm going to skip a marathon and basically walk for 24 hours... i mean run an ultra!
compete in a criterium? nah... i'm going to "race" 200 miles.
race nordic sprints? nah...

i'm ok with any type of 'challenge', but it seems that there is SUCH reverence for "MOAR DISTANCE!!!!" to the point that anything short and intense is looked down upon. i wish there was some equality.

seems people would rather sit in an uncomfortable chair for 18 hours than go so hard for 3-8' and puke.

Sometimes ultra-distance events can be more welcoming than conventional ones.

I went from running a couple of half marathons to running a couple of ultras. OK, the first ultra I didn't get the training right, and after the second decided that was enough for a few years at least, but the getting the training right meant not that much more than a conventional marathon, psychologically it was easier, as there was no pressure to do a time, finishing was enough, and there was a nice sense of community.
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Re: Want a challenge? 220k xc-skiing race in Sweden Red Bull Nordenskiƶldsloppet [lovegoat] [ In reply to ]
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lovegoat wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Personally I think this is basically stupid. Swimming got it right when during breast stroke guys started recovering over water and adding in dolphin kick....so they created a new event called butterfly.

XC skiing should just add a double poling event separately. The sport could preserve classic stride by only have painted of lines in between which it would be OK to double pole (say downhill only). If not you are forced to diagonal stride. In track they have race walking in swimming they have breast stroke. Classic/diagonal stride is a valid technique and it's a shame to see it not really "raced" anymore. Heck slow down the skis and make glide wax totally illegal in classic events and have a minimum length of pocket where you MUST have grip wax. If fomula 1 can do all kinds of things to preserve aspects of the sport, skiing can too. Swimming got rid of those stupid full body low drag suits. Heck, make them race on no wax fish scale skis if you have to force them to break into diagonal stride.


Agree - but I think the best and most entertaining solution would be going back to alot more hilly courses. Double-poling doesnt cut it at sustained gradients of 10%++. More of that please!

I really don't get the obsession some people have with striding. It looks like something from Monty Python's ministry of silly walks, is by far the hardest technique to master on rollerskis (important if XC wants to spread beyond its traditional heartland), is slower than DP, and DP is still classic-technique skiing - it's not skating, and the skis remain in line with one another.
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