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Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode (resolved)
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Big wahoo kickr fan and love it even more when combined with trainer road. My wife and I have been riding the kickr with training road for a few months now. Each of us has performed tons of ERG mode workouts, and a FTP test each, which switches between ERG and standard / level resistance mode.

Last week when re-testing my FTP through training road, when the kickr switched to standard mode level 3 of 9, the resistance was so incredible, that i could hardly keep 70 cadence (my comfortable cadence is about 95) and that 70 cadence was producing 350+ watts. I couldn't hold the resistance for more than 20 seconds at a time. Keep in mind, neither my wife nor I had this issue the first time we both tested our FTP. I was maintaining 95 cadence throughout the entire test. This time, when the test had the kickr go from ERG to standard / level, the resistance was so great I couldn't maintain 70 cadence for more than 20 seconds.

I stopped the workout and conducted the following tests:
1. I switched back to ERG mode and did a ERG mode workout. Varying watts from 150 - 250 were all accomplished with ease and a cadence of 95. Switched back to standard level 3 and I couldn't hold 70 cadence for more than 20 seconds.
2. I tried standard / level resistance 0 of 9, and again, by the time I got to 70 cadence, my watts were 300 and I couldn't maintain for more than 20 seconds. Resistance level 0 of 9.
3. I disconnected and reconnected all devices through their pairings, still the same thing (70 cadence could only be held for seconds).
4. Unplugged all power, let sit for a few minutes, plugged back in, same problem (70 cadence could only be held for seconds).
5. Attempted to run trainer road software from wife's laptop, same problem.
6. Attempted to run level resistance from wahoo utility on my cell phone, same problem.
7. Attempted to run level resistance from wahoo utility on my wife's cell phone, same problem.
8. Took the "top-cap" off and cleaned the optical sensor.

I called Wahoo tech support and after a few phone conversations, they kept pointing me to the wahoo resistance tables that show the correlations between mph and resistance when using standard / level resistance. I explained to them that I understood the correlations, but that 1) my kickr was not applying this much resistance in standard / level mode a few weeks earlier, and that 2) Even at standard / level resistance level 0 of 9, the resistance was so great by cadence 70 that I couldn't keep pedaling. They asked me to make a video showing what was was going on. I made the video showing switching between ERG and Standard / level resistance modes and you could hear my kickr go from smooth pedaling in ERG mode to a massive slow down and halt when switched to resistance level 0 of 9. Yes, I did many tests starting from a dead stop, spinning up to 70 cadence, and again, getting shut down by resistance every time after just seconds.

Wahoo received the video and said that its working as its supposed to and again directed me to the standard / level resistance correlation tables. I again explained to them that 1) it was not working this way just weeks ago when I successfully took a FTP test (I cannot take my FTP test right now because I cannot fight through the resistance levels for the test) and 2) even from a dead stop at resistance level 0 of 9, my resistance is so great by 70 cadence that I cannot continue. I hope to hear back from them again tomorrow (Monday).

Training road software is up to date. Kickr has latest firmware.

I saw some resistance spiking threads here on ST, but can't find my specific issue on ST or Google. My issue is that its almost like my resistance levels (0 through 9) are all a few points higher than they should be ie) my 0 is like a 5, my 1 is like a 6, my 2 is like a 7, etc. It was not this way just a few weeks ago.

Citizens of ST, what do you think?


Edit: If it helps, my FTP at the time of my first test a month or so ago was 233.
Last edited by: Howlandm: Mar 3, 15 7:15
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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What gear where you in when you switched to level 3?

In ERG mode you can be in 53/12 and ride 95 rpm at 100 watts if you want too. Tire speed has no bearing on watts, but in level mode it does. If you are in an unrealistic gear in ERG mode (such as 53/12) and switch to level mode, its going to get really hard, really fast, just like you described. Think of level 3 more like you're going up a 3% grade, you have to down shift to keep your cadence level.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Burnt Toast] [ In reply to ]
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I just did another test at 52-19, a very easy gear, and at resistance level 0 I could achieve 90 rpm and hold with a major burn for a minute or two at 200-250 watts. When I turned the kickr to resistance level 3 in the same gear, I was pushing 350+ watts at 80 rpm and could spin to achieve 90 rpm for just a second or two.

I understand what your saying, but when I ran my FTP test about a month ago, I did have to shift to an easier gear or two, but I still maintained 90-95 rpm with confidence. Now, I'm shifting up 5 gears easier or so, and still cannot achieve 90 rpm because the resistance is so great.
Last edited by: Howlandm: Mar 2, 15 4:48
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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Howlandm wrote:
I just did another test at 52-19, a very easy gear, and at resistance level 0 I could achieve 90 rpm and hold with a major burn for a minute or two at 200-250 watts. When I turned the kickr to resistance level 3 in the same gear, I was pushing 350+ watts at 80 rpm and could spin to achieve 90 rpm for just a second or two.

I understand what your saying, but when I ran my FTP test about a month ago, I did have to shift to an easier gear or two, but I still maintained 90-95 rpm with confidence. Now, I'm shifting up 5 gears easier or so, and still cannot achieve 90 rpm because the resistance is so great.

If your FTP is 233, you should have been able to hold your 200-250 for at least 20 minutes up to an hour. So can you maintain 90 RPMs in 52/19 up a 3% grade? Probably not as that should be over 19 mph.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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I have had this same exact problem and posted about it a week ago.

I have sent emails to TR and Wahoo. The TR people have been great about responding and offering suggestions, even though it appears to be a Wahoo problem. The Wahoo people have been horrible about responding--one half-ass response, followed by just ignoring me.

Users of this forum should have serious doubts about Wahoo. After reading the many flattering reviews of that product, I bought one. It was great for about three weeks, then it started becoming impossible to complete workouts as my FTP was approached.

By the way, I have firmware 1.2.2. Does anybody with a functioning Kickr have a more updated version than that?
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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Make sure you're shifted down to the easiest gear, then try again. It's easy to forget how big a gear you are in with erg mode since gearing doesn't matter in erg mode (it adjusts to you), but it matters alot in resistance or slope mode.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Burnt Toast] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the input Burnt Toast. I'm going to try again tonight and run the FTP test in an easy gear, likely do a proper warm-up and attempt the test at 52-19 gearing. I looked at my last FTP test and turns out my cadence was 80, not the 90-95 I like, so maybe that is some proof that I was struggling, but I would like to know what gearing I was running the test in. Perhaps I just don't remember having to shift in to such an easy gear for the FTP test. Is this common amongst Kickr and TR users? That a very easy gear must be used during FTP testing?
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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Look at what lighttheir posted above your post. In ERG mode, wheel speed doesn't matter at all. I see guys post up workouts with a 150 watt average but have an average speed near 25 mph. That can't happen unless you're going downhill and its still pretty tough to keep the watts up then anyway. Think about a top triathlete for example. They may average 24 mph with a NP of 280 and yet in ERG mode, a person can average 24 mph on 150 watts. In my opinion, that's what you are inadvertently doing, especially since you keep referring to your cadence.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe try using your small ring...what gear you are in doesn't really matter, it is the power you are putting out. As long as your wattage is around your threshold number, you are doing it right. Just shift down as needed.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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This is all very good information guys, thank you. So, if I'm understanding correctly, when doing my FTP test in standard / level resistance mode, my gear doesn't matter at all. Just find a gearing that puts me at a comfortable cadence so I can hit the target wattage throughout the test. During my FTP test, my gearing is not to reflect or be representative of what gear I would expect to be in during a race, it is just the gearing necessary to hit certain wattage numbers to test my output during the FTP test, correct?
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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Howlandm wrote:
.......it is just the gearing necessary to hit certain wattage numbers to test my output during the FTP test, correct?


Just like it would be for outdoors on various road gradients. Like in my area there are not very many places one can test outside. One of the places best for me to test is on a mountain climb because it shortens the distance of road required, but it also requires a lot different gearing and cadence compared to the flatter road that I used previously.
Last edited by: Felt_Rider: Mar 2, 15 13:17
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [nightfend] [ In reply to ]
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nightfend wrote:
Maybe try using your small ring...what gear you are in doesn't really matter, it is the power you are putting out. As long as your wattage is around your threshold number, you are doing it right. Just shift down as needed.

Slightly conflicting statements...but I know what you mean.

I have a 53 + 12-23 set up on my Wahoo (+ Quarq). I don't have a front derailleur at the moment. So when I'm power testing and my Wahoo "switches" into "Level" mode level 3 is quite hard because I am in such a "big gear." So your gears do matter in - I believe - any mode other than ERG mode.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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Gearing choice really only matters when you need to worry about speed or the distance covered in a specific amount of time. Since you are doing a wattage test, all that matters is holding the highest sustainable wattage number for your 20 or 60 minutes that you can. It doesn't matter what your speed is.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
nightfend wrote:
Maybe try using your small ring...what gear you are in doesn't really matter, it is the power you are putting out. As long as your wattage is around your threshold number, you are doing it right. Just shift down as needed.


Slightly conflicting statements...but I know what you mean.

I have a 53 + 12-23 set up on my Wahoo (+ Quarq). I don't have a front derailleur at the moment. So when I'm power testing and my Wahoo "switches" into "Level" mode level 3 is quite hard because I am in such a "big gear." So your gears do matter in - I believe - any mode other than ERG mode.

This ^^^^^^^^

Howlandm, To really understand what we are trying to say to you, go to TR and select a workout that ranges from about 50% to +100% FTP and do the workout, but do it in slope mode or level mode as you call it. Do the entire workout in slope mode and you will see that as you go through the intervals from 50% to the highest percentage of FTP in that workout, you will have to vary your cadence slightly and shift through the gears to achieve your desired wattage. Forget about ERG mode for the workout and work only in level mode.

I've done quite a lot of workouts in slope mode, enough to know how fast the rear wheel is spinning to know what gear I should be in when I do my FTP test so when it switched from ERG to slope, I
typically do not need to shift at all, unless I go harder then what's called for.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Poon] [ In reply to ]
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Poon wrote:
Users of this forum should have serious doubts about Wahoo. After reading the many flattering reviews of that product, I bought one. It was great for about three weeks, then it started becoming impossible to complete workouts as my FTP was approached.

I'm very worried about this myself. About to pull the trigger on one, but every time I see a Kickr thread on the main page it makes me second guess myself. I don't see many people directing people away from the Kickr, but all the inaccurate power and "help me fix this thing" threads has me concerned.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [davetopia] [ In reply to ]
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No reason to be concerned about the Kickr in regards to the content of this thread anymore.

Last night I conducted another FTP test upon the advice and education provided to me from some of the responses in this thread. I performed the test in my small chain ring and a moderate / hard gear in my cassette. The test was a success and my FTP increased from 233 to 246, which is great.

The ST members in this thread helped me understand how the Kickr works in standard / level resistance mode. Thanks all.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Howlandm] [ In reply to ]
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good to hear you figured it out.
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Re: Wahoo Kickr resistance problem in standard / level resistance mode [Burnt Toast] [ In reply to ]
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I realize this is an old post, but I am adding this info for others like me who had the same issue and were searching for information on this same topic. I've done a lot of research on this and I now have some answers that work for me. It is not quite true that "gear selection does not matter." There is a big difference in pushing, say, 300 watts at 90 rpm up a hill in a small gear and pushing the same watts and rpm on the flats, in a big gear. That difference is momentum, and where in the pedal stroke you are having to engage force to push the pedals. See http://blog.wahoofitness.com/...ar-selection-matter/. When using the Kickr on TrainerRoad with standard/level mode, the resistance is proportional to speed, so if you try to push a big gear, your "speed" is high and the resistance is very high. So you have to typically use a low gear in the little ring in order to find a workable resistance to test in. That will work, but it's more like ftp testing on a hill, and I find it harder to "stay on top" of the gear. I prefer to push a big gear, just as I would on a flat road, and that is not possible in standard/level mode for me, even at level 0.

I did an FTP test last night using the following method, and had my best result since getting the Kickr and TR over a year ago. Instead of staying in ERG mode and letting TR switch me to standard/level mode for the test, I manually switched to Resistance mode prior to the start of the test. During the warmup I experimented with resistance mode while pushing the gear I wanted, near my target power for the test, in order to determine the % resistance setting that would work for me. I found that resistance mode at 33% worked well for me, and let me push the gear and cadence I wanted at the power I expected to be hitting during the test. TR remembers the % resistance setting, so you can play with this in any workout to find a % that works for you. Then during your FTP test workout, at some point before the test begins, just switch to resistance mode.

Another advantage of this method is that typically there are bigger jumps between the bigger/easier cogs in a cassette. For example, a typical 11-25 cassette may have these cogs: 11-12-13-14-15-17-19-21-23-25. If you are riding in, say, the 19, then a shift in either direction involves changing by 2 teeth, with a bigger change in resistance. This can make it harder to find a comfortable cadence at the desired power. However if you can ride in, say, the 13, you can shift in either direction by only one tooth.
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