WTC Secrecy and Kona slots

Oct 6, 15 12:24

Post #1 of 115 (8465 views)

I just completed my 6th IM event, IM Chattanooga, a great event BTW. I wore a wetsuit so was not eligible for awards or a Kona slot. However, I finished 7th in the 55-59 AG and was certainly interested in the award of the invitations to Kona. As in the past, the race results carry no mention of (1) the number of slots for each AG or how far the roll down was for each AG. I wanted to know so I emailed the contact point on the Nooga website and inquired. I received this response from the WTC today, in pertinent part is says:

"There were 50 slots given for the 2016 IRONMAN World Championships. Unfortunately, I cannot give out the names of athletes who qualified.
Should you need anything further, please do not hesitate to reach back out."

This was completely nonresponsive to my question. Why on earth is the WTC unwilling to release this information for each event. Many people do these events specifically to attempt to qualify for Kona. It can not be an issue of privacy as every person entered, even the DNFs, have their name listed in the results. How hard could it be to have an asterick placed by the name of the person(s) in each AG who accepted a Kona slot? It makes one wonder if the WTC is somehow "managing" the Kona slots and doesn't want the ordinary entrant to realize how. Why the WTC would do this I have no idea, other than it doesn't want the competitors to be able to put 2 and 2 together so to speak.

What really gets me is, I (and many others) pay $700 to enter and then spend untold thousands on hotels, food, and yes IM branded appareal and gear, and the WTC won't even give us basic information about the events and the results. Its damned insulting. Completely sick of the WTC.

bb

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:27

Post #2 of 115 (8436 views)

I did IM Chattanooga this year also (4th one). I did not qualify for Kona. You can scratch me off the list possibilities.
Mike Jones

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:34

Post #3 of 115 (8384 views)

Yeah, I don't quite get their reluctance to show them who actually took the slots. Back when all the US IMs were licensed to North American Sports, they (NAS) put an M-Dot symbol in their online results listing to show exactly who got them, and a 70.3 logo for whoever took the 70.3 WC slots. Perhaps we can speculate that WTC programmers are incapable (or incompetent) of adding that feature to "Athlete Tracker". Writing that felt good, but I would guess the real reason is that by not showing how tight it has become, they maintain the perception that slots could roll far which is probably better for business.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:42

Post #4 of 115 (8322 views)

If you really want to know it would be fairly easy to cross-reference the Kona bib list with the IMChoo results for your age group.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:44

Post #5 of 115 (8297 views)

One thing could be that if they tell everyone who took the slots. They are telling everyone that these people will be in Hawaii and away from home. If the wrong people learn who will be out of town, bad things could happen.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [noofus] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:46

Post #6 of 115 (8284 views)

Why should an entrant have to do that? I paid the money to enter, I did the race, the results are uploaded as the event goes on. WTC knows the next day by noon who took the slots. It would take essentially no effort on their part to let everyone know. Again, I just disagree with your suggestion that any entrant do that. There is some reason why WTC won't disclose this info and I just don't trust them to do what's right or reasonable for the very people who support their races and Company.

bb

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:46

Post #7 of 115 (8283 views)

Anyone can attend the rolldown and see who gets the spots (you could have even though you weren't in contention)....and sometimes a spot gets rolled to another age group , which happens on the fly during the actual rolldown.

While it would be awesome to see KQ listed somewhere for us curious folks, it's not like they award them in secret via email after the event. Anyone that went to the rolldown can tell you exactly who got one and how far each rolldown went into each age group (or if it got moved to another age group because no one took it).

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [SusanH] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:48

Post #8 of 115 (8261 views)

so your answer is stay in town to actually attend the roll down? that is idiotic.

bb

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:49

Post #9 of 115 (8248 views)

yeah...pretty sure I read that the criminal element is going down the Kona list to determine which homes to hit in October

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:53

Post #10 of 115 (8208 views)

also prevents someone doing a jeff gilooly/tanya harding.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:54

Post #11 of 115 (8197 views)

bbryant wrote:

so your answer is stay in town to actually attend the roll down? that is idiotic.

Settle down Beavis...

You are complaining that you have to stay overnight at the Ironman venue and attend the awards the next day to find out the exact answer to your question? Are you saying you would never bother staying? If not, then the information isn't that important to you. If it is still somewhat important to you then why is checking the bib list against your AG such a big deal? What possible need is there for the WTC to publish that information? The people that have their ticket punched know it, the people that don't have it know they still need work. And in a way they do end up publishing that information, but you need to wait until they publish the bib list which for IMChoo is going to be 10 months later.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [jonesylaw] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:55

Post #12 of 115 (8193 views)

If I was a house burglar, I'd be checking the Kona list to find me some affluent victims for this week.

---------------------------
''Sweeney - you can both crush your AG *and* cruise in dead last!! 😂 '' Murphy's Law

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [Sweeney] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 12:58

Post #13 of 115 (8175 views)

seeing how they are listed by Country....might take some time to find the nearest victim

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:00

Post #14 of 115 (8161 views)

I tend to agree that it is weird not putting an M-dot or something next to folks in the results, but if you were so interested why didn't you go and watch for yourself? I was there at the awards ceremony and the presentation/roll down of KQ spots was very public and transparent, as was the number of slots per age group. For some reason I think they like to keep the mystique of some of these things for some odd reason.

It was interesting that they did their slot allocation percentages based on only non-wetsuit competitors instead of total competitors, which changed the allocation some. BTW, you weren't "7th" if you wore a wetsuit even though you were 1st of the wetsuit folks. Looks like you had a decent race.

Lastly, I certainly don't agree w/ everything the WTC does, but I certainly wouldn't let something like this affect what was otherwise a great event overall and for you personally. I'm not sure there is any product I buy that I couldn't find some gripe with if I wanted, even if it is otherwise good and what I want. If you don't like the Ironman product, don't buy it. If you do, don't let this ruin it.

Best wishes,

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:01

Post #15 of 115 (8154 views)

No. My answer is that it is specifically not a conspiracy to keep it all secret. The info is available, just not convenient.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [noofus] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:01

Post #16 of 115 (8154 views)

Thanks doofus. I am plenty calm. I guess we should all just take what the WTC gives us without complaint. I understand no one makes me pay the entry fee, but ask yourself, what other event/organization refuses to release the results of the highest level of its competition? Its why we keep score in this country. No, everyone is not a winner, even if you get a medal at the finish line. I simply thinks it small minded and speaks to the disdain the WTC clearly holds for the people who pay its bills.

bb

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [noofus] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:04

Post #17 of 115 (8120 views)

noofus wrote:

If you really want to know it would be fairly easy to cross-reference the Kona bib list with the IMChoo results for your age group.

Seems like an opportunity to create a well visited website to me..

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [SusanH] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:05

Post #18 of 115 (8110 views)

SusanH wrote:

No. My answer is that it is specifically not a conspiracy to keep it all secret. The info is available, just not convenient.

This. It is available if you really want to get it. Why don't they make it easier? Because what incentive do they have to provide that information? There is literally no reason other than morbid curiosity that anyone NEEDS that information. And last time I checked simple "curiosity" doesn't constitute enough reason to demand information from someone. You can ask, sure, but there is no compelling reason for anyone to actually tell you.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:10

Post #19 of 115 (8080 views)

bbryant wrote:

Thanks doofus. I am plenty calm. I guess we should all just take what the WTC gives us without complaint. I understand no one makes me pay the entry fee, but ask yourself, what other event/organization refuses to release the results of the highest level of its competition? Its why we keep score in this country. No, everyone is not a winner, even if you get a medal at the finish line. I simply thinks it small minded and speaks to the disdain the WTC clearly holds for the people who pay its bills.

I'll counter your claim that WTC holds disdain for the people who pay its bills by stating that Ironman Maryland is scheduled to take place 2 weeks after the original date. WTC did not have to do that.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:15

Post #20 of 115 (8044 views)

japarker24 wrote:

bbryant wrote:

Thanks doofus. I am plenty calm. I guess we should all just take what the WTC gives us without complaint. I understand no one makes me pay the entry fee, but ask yourself, what other event/organization refuses to release the results of the highest level of its competition? Its why we keep score in this country. No, everyone is not a winner, even if you get a medal at the finish line. I simply thinks it small minded and speaks to the disdain the WTC clearly holds for the people who pay its bills.

I'll counter your claim that WTC holds disdain for the people who pay its bills by stating that Ironman Maryland is scheduled to take place 2 weeks after the original date. WTC did not have to do that.

If you think that is WTC Corporate's doing and not Gerry Boyle and what remains of the crew from TriColumbia who actually produce IMMD, think again. Yes, corporate WTC surely needed to sign off on a reschedule, but the willingness, even eagerness, to make the race happen no matter what comes from the local organization. I have no doubt corporate WTC would have accepted a full cancelation if that is what Gerry recommended.

As far as Kona slots and secrecy goes, when you act like you have something to hide, you usually do.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [kny] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:18

Post #21 of 115 (8010 views)

kny wrote:

japarker24 wrote:

bbryant wrote:

Thanks doofus. I am plenty calm. I guess we should all just take what the WTC gives us without complaint. I understand no one makes me pay the entry fee, but ask yourself, what other event/organization refuses to release the results of the highest level of its competition? Its why we keep score in this country. No, everyone is not a winner, even if you get a medal at the finish line. I simply thinks it small minded and speaks to the disdain the WTC clearly holds for the people who pay its bills.

I'll counter your claim that WTC holds disdain for the people who pay its bills by stating that Ironman Maryland is scheduled to take place 2 weeks after the original date. WTC did not have to do that.

If you think that is WTC Corporate's doing and not Gerry Boyle and what remains of the crew from TriColumbia who actually produce IMMD, think again. Yes, corporate WTC surely needed to sign off on a reschedule, but the willingness, even eagerness, to make the race happen no matter what comes from the local organization. I have no doubt corporate WTC would have accepted a full cancelation if that is what Gerry recommended.

As far as Kona slots and secrecy goes, when you act like you have something to hide, you usually do.

On Facebook, Gerry Boyle said Andrew Messick made the call.

Pink? Maybe. Maybe not. You decide.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:20

Post #22 of 115 (7991 views)

A simple search of the word "allocation" in this forum generally yields the answer to your question within an hour or two after the ceremony.

IM Chattanooga's allocation is here.

Scroll down to post #19 of that thread for the roll down information (spoiler: your AG did not roll down).

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [japarker24] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:23

Post #23 of 115 (7967 views)

japarker24 wrote:

On Facebook, Gerry Boyle said Andrew Messick made the call.

Of course. Gerry can't unilaterally decide to postpone. But, I can promise you that Gerry said he thought he could pull off a reschedule and Andrew said "are you sure, we can't fall on our face" and Gerry said "I can do it" so Andrew said "go for it, knock it out of the park." A CEO is always going to defer to the recommendation of the man on the scene, but the CEO for sure has to give the approval.

We'll never know, but I'm sure that if Gerry said he thought it was a bad idea and high risk that they couldn't pull it off, that there would be no 10/17 reschedule happening.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [mdm81] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:27

Post #24 of 115 (7936 views)

mdm81 wrote:

A simple search of the word "allocation" in this forum generally yields the answer to your question within an hour or two after the ceremony.

IM Chattanooga's allocation is here.

Scroll down to post #19 of that thread for the roll down information (spoiler: your AG did not roll down).

Publicly, however, WTC never releases the info in this allocation photo. And, this is the first time I've ever seen sportstats do so. All WTC ever does is print out that piece of paper you see and post it at rolldown. Then it's gone and you will never get that info ever again from WTC. If you're lucky someone has taken a photo of it and there is a thread on slowtwitch with that photo. Why does WTC hide the allocation and those who accepted slots? I don't understand the lack of transparency. It makes no sense to me.

Re: WTC Secrecy and Kona slots [bbryant] [ In reply to ]

Oct 6, 15 13:29

Post #25 of 115 (7922 views)

bbryant wrote:

What really gets me is, I (and many others) pay $700 to enter and then spend untold thousands on hotels, food, and yes IM branded appareal and gear, and the WTC won't even give us basic information about the events and the results. Its damned insulting. Completely sick of the WTC.

But, evidently, not sick enough not to be a walking billboard for them. Your complaining rings hollow. Start talking with your wallet.

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