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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
If we raced the same age group. You spent 5k more than me on tri gear. And you beat me by 30 seconds - kudos to you. This is a hobby to a lot of us. 5k in the bank is a few week vacation I can take.

It isn't about spending $$$, it's using the noggin.

Exactly - If I only have $x and y hours to devote to my hobby per year (doesn't matter what the numbers are), some of that time and money is better served knowing how to do well in that hobby. This includes knowing where best to spend those limited resources.

I can see not being able to afford the latest frames, and wheels - those are specific things which require a large budget and not everyone can afford. Tires & tubes, on the other hand, cost little, and need to be re-purchased often anyway as part of the baseline cost to participate.
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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And all of you critizing his fit are professional fitters with years of experience and well going fit studios, know the physics of Andy and if he tested a lower seat position? Or that he just stoppep pedalling for moment, dropped his heel a bit just for the picture's sake?
I ride in similar fashion, i do have all of the above ( except for knowing andy's physics) and seldom have my clients sit that high but i do ride in similar saddle height. On Dan's advise tried to lower the saddle 1 cm after attending fist course 7 years ago but it is just not for me. I loose power, get sore knees and it feels just really uncomfortable. So i do think we need to give andy and mat steinmetz some credit.

But aggree that gatorskins and butyl's are, well, a miss hit đŸ˜€

Jeroen, tri-run

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [tri-run] [ In reply to ]
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Umm, he has his leg extended a little bit more than "normal" AND he's "toes down".

The heel is the opposite of "dropped".
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Nicko] [ In reply to ]
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I did not say that his heel is dropped, but that he might dropped his heel a little bit more than if he was pedalling in his normal way. Two different things. That his leg is extended more than probably yours and most others does not say anything other than that he probably has some solid hamstring and lower back flex and just likes it this way. Mat Steimetz is known as a well known and respected fitter. I can hardly imagine that something prominent as saddle height would be overlooked at his just recent performed bike fit. And the more runner orientated triathletes seem to choose slightly higher than usual saddle heights than average, just as i
like it and some others. I see it sometimes in my studio/shop. It is a minority that ride that higher position and i tried to put some of them including myself a little lower but for most of them it did just not work

Owner at TRIPRO, The Netherlands
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [copperman] [ In reply to ]
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Gatorskins and GPS 4000 cost almost the same. You don't need to spend thousands to make good equipment choices.

But again, we were originally talking about Andy Potts and his equipment decisions likely have cost him more than just a plastic medal.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [rruff] [ In reply to ]
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rruff wrote:
If we raced the same age group. You spent 5k more than me on tri gear. And you beat me by 30 seconds - kudos to you. This is a hobby to a lot of us. 5k in the bank is a few week vacation I can take.

It isn't about spending $$$, it's using the noggin.

Good quality clinchers & latex tubes work out to about $130 Canadian from a certain retailer in the British Isles. The improvement in ride quality with latex tubes alone is worth the price of admission.
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [copperman] [ In reply to ]
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copperman wrote:
wannabefaster wrote:
Grant.Reuter wrote:
I love people who think like you. It makes racing so much easier.


Seriously.

Like you can't work on the engine and improve the equipment at the same time.

This fat doctor hasn't made the gains I would like on the bike. So, I try to optimize (as much as I can) all the little things to eke the best bike split I can out of my pitifully low watts.

By all means, mash out an extra 30-40 watts with your awesome power to overcome your aerodynamic/equipment choices...... I'll see you on the run.

Here's the thing.

If we raced the same age group. You spent 5k more than me on tri gear. And you beat me by 30 seconds - kudos to you. This is a hobby to a lot of us. 5k in the bank is a few week vacation I can take. I value that more than a plastic medal. We both got the same fitness gains out of training, so that really is the difference. Plastic medal or $5000. I know which one I pick.

Cheers

Andy Potts is not an age grouper chasing a plastic medal.
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [copperman] [ In reply to ]
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Your assumption that these equipment upgrades cost $5k is also a bit silly...come on!!

If you are in this site and read up you should know better...used flo wheels, used aero helmet, right tires and tubes, decent suit... You could get all that get all that for a little over $1k and get most of the way there on aero improvements and still have $4k for that vacation ;)
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [wannabefaster] [ In reply to ]
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wannabefaster wrote:
Gatorskins and GPS 4000 cost almost the same. You don't need to spend thousands to make good equipment choices.

x2

Beat me to it.

Formerly DrD
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [3Aims] [ In reply to ]
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That's not his saddle height. He is either doing something weird for the photo...or he didn't adjust his saddle when he switched to speedplay pedals.



Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook
Last edited by: Mat Steinmetz: Apr 24, 16 11:07
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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Mat, any idea how much faster the new slice is over his Kestrel 4000 at his Kona watts (assume same everything including position)



Mat Steinmetz wrote:
That's not his saddle height. He is either doing something weird for the photo...or he didn't adjust his saddle when he switched to speedplay pedals.


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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Nicko] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone know what aerobars (the extentions) he is using?

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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
That's not his saddle height. He is either doing something weird for the photo...or he didn't adjust his saddle when he switched to speedplay pedals.

I called it (based on the public photo).

Telling though, that he'd ride around for a photo shoot with his seat several cm's too high.
I mean, if the whole presentation was off the sponsoring and setup from Tririg, this seat adjustment could/should have been done in situ.
And the link between the fitter and the equipper is Mr Andy himself (and the sheet of coordinates, of course).
To drop the post 2cm and remove 2cm's of handlebar spacers is a 10min no-brainer for Mr Salazar, no?

Edit: I assumed a Tririg handlebar was also used, and thus fitted. But only the brakes seems to be from Tririg, so maybe no wrenching was done by Tririg that involved fit/coordinates.
Last edited by: Nicko: Apr 23, 16 22:02
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Nicko] [ In reply to ]
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I am the fitter...I only have control of what goes on when the athlete is in my presence. What the athlete and/or others do to the bike once it leaves is beyond my control unless I'm asked or notified of a change.

Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Nicko] [ In reply to ]
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I still think that Andy is just doing something in that pic that is making it appear his saddle is too high. He's always ridden a lowish saddle for years and I don't see him going the opposite direction on that.

Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
I am the fitter...I only have control of what goes on when the athlete is in my presence. What the athlete and/or others do to the bike once it leaves is beyond my control unless I'm asked or notified of a change.


I don't have near your fitting experience, but I have a little. And your photos are not visible anymore, but even in those shots his seat looked a bit high. Not as high as in the tririg pic, but still high. I am assuming that you used retul to measure Potts' fit, is that correct? If yes, I have seen this trend before, but do you ever find that retul measured fits tend to set riders' seat a bit too high? Or not?.

Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
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Last edited by: DarkSpeedWorks: Apr 24, 16 10:50
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
I am the fitter...I only have control of what goes on when the athlete is in my presence. What the athlete and/or others do to the bike once it leaves is beyond my control unless I'm asked or notified of a change.
That was my point.
The athlete in question knows what happened, or not...
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [DarkSpeedWorks] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
I don't have near your fitting experience, but I have a little. And your photos are not visible anymore, but even in those shots his seat looked a bit high. Not as high as in the tririg pic, but still high. I am assuming that you used retul to measure Potts' fit, is that correct? If yes, I have seen this trend before, but do you ever find that retul measured fits tend to set riders' seat a bit too high? Or not?.



I use my eye to guide Andy's fit. I use the retul to put a metric to what I see, but if the retul does not confirm what my eye sees, my eye wins. I came up with most of the retul measurements for TT fitting and if they aren't setting saddle heights appropriately, then there is something wrong with the marker placement or the machine.

Hopefully, these pics work...

I've been working with Potts since 2009 and have gradually worked to raise his saddle. I don't think it's too high, but it looked high to me in that TriRig pic...that is not the same bike that I setup.




Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook
Last edited by: Mat Steinmetz: Apr 24, 16 11:08
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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Matt, what's your logic for trying to increase saddle height? More power?
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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Matt, what's your logic for trying to increase saddle height? More power?

No, it was just too low. I think at one point his knee angle extension was around 49...I got it to 46...then 44...now he's around 40-42 degrees.

Mat Steinmetz

51-SPEEDSHOP.com - instagram - @matsteinmetz - facebook
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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What was the impact of it being too low?
And what have you done to actively raise the saddle? Mobility work? Posterior chain?
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [TriByran] [ In reply to ]
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TriByran wrote:
What was the impact of it being too low?

Having your saddle too low or too high will reduce your efficiency, and hence (presumably) your sustainable power output.

That said, being too high is worse than being too low, from both a physiological and aerodynamic perspective.
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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Well that was my logic.
I'm not sure I get the need to go higher if it's not causing issues.,
I'm always at the lower end, I put out more sustainable power and run better off it.
Go too high and I'm in bits.
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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from this picture
http://www.tririg.com/...ig_Omega_X&num=3

it seems the tire is mounted wrong, on opposite rotation
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Re: WHOA! Andy Potts was on Gatorskins and Butyl tubes last year in Kona!!! [Mat Steinmetz] [ In reply to ]
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Mat Steinmetz wrote:
I still think that Andy is just doing something in that pic that is making it appear his saddle is too high. He's always ridden a lowish saddle for years and I don't see him going the opposite direction on that.


I guess its a funny angled pic and he is posing for something , but it seems like he switched pedals with lower stack and shoes also seem a lower stack than the one during the fit .

Anyway this will be intersting what happens in the real world when a guy makes quite a few good aero decisons in a pack race
like hawaii.
Last edited by: pk: Apr 25, 16 3:29
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