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Video moto at Aruba - crikey!!
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Not having a go at the racer (Heather Jackson I think) but did anybody else take a look at this photo and think ... CRIKEY!! I guess at this angle the photography can exaggerate or understate the distances, but that looks like it must be a proper old draft advantage. I thought they were meant to keep more distance than that.



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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Please note carefully, that she MAY be getting an advantage here.

However:

1. Long range pictures of which this is one with a telephoto lens really compresses distance

2. Static photos, are a terrible way to access whetther someone is drafting.

Expanding on #2 - it's important to note that drafting, as a penalty is one of space AND time. It unfolds over a 20 - 30 second range of time. Thus, you can only get part of the story from the still shot. If we rule out #1, yes, at that singular moment, she is drafting the moto. But maybe she was in the act of passing the moto, and 10 sec into the pass and passed it in another 5 sec ( fully legal). Maybe the moto swooped in, got the shot it wanted and then moved out in 20 sec. The photo does not tell us any of that.


Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Steve, all good points. And to be clear I wasn't try to issue a draft penalty! I would never put it on the athlete to try and avoid interacting with these guys, it should be on the crew to stay the hell out of the way of the athletes. I was just interested by what I saw on the photo, and it struck me how close it appears that the camera bike is to the rider behind. As per the opening post, I looked at it and thought "crikey".
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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Fleck wrote:
Please note carefully, that she MAY be getting an advantage here.

However:

1. Long range pictures of which this is one with a telephoto lens really compresses distance

2. Static photos, are a terrible way to access whetther someone is drafting.

Expanding on #2 - it's important to note that drafting, as a penalty is one of space AND time. It unfolds over a 20 - 30 second range of time. Thus, you can only get part of the story from the still shot. If we rule out #1, yes, at that singular moment, she is drafting the moto. But maybe she was in the act of passing the moto, and 10 sec into the pass and passed it in another 5 sec ( fully legal). Maybe the moto swooped in, got the shot it wanted and then moved out in 20 sec. The photo does not tell us any of that.

Ahh she is definitely getting advantage here. First off it appears she is going down hill so the advantage is even more great. Secondly, yes pictures can get compressed, but thankfully we have another object to compare, this case being the other biker, we know for sure that. HJ is definitely getting an advantage here.


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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Expanding on Fleck's thoughts re: the inadequacy of still photos and effects of telephoto lenses...there's nothing in that picture which, to me, rules out the possibility that the moto is actually off to her right and/or maybe even slightly behind her. The angles seem a little wrong for the moto to be behind her by very much...but to my eye they seem even more wrong for the moto to be directly in front of her...particularly when it comes to where that moto camera is pointed. Really doesn't look like he's filming her anyway.

Carl Matson
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Carl wrote:
Expanding on Fleck's thoughts re: the inadequacy of still photos and effects of telephoto lenses...there's nothing in that picture which, to me, rules out the possibility that the moto is actually off to her right and/or maybe even slightly behind her. The angles seem a little wrong for the moto to be behind her by very much...but to my eye they seem even more wrong for the moto to be directly in front of her...particularly when it comes to where that moto camera is pointed. Really doesn't look like he's filming her anyway.

Good eye Carl. That is how I view it as well. The lens doesn't appear to be focussing on her and this could be a shot of the motorbike coming up on her right while filming someone behind her.
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Carl wrote:
Expanding on Fleck's thoughts re: the inadequacy of still photos and effects of telephoto lenses...there's nothing in that picture which, to me, rules out the possibility that the moto is actually off to her right and/or maybe even slightly behind her. The angles seem a little wrong for the moto to be behind her by very much...but to my eye they seem even more wrong for the moto to be directly in front of her...particularly when it comes to where that moto camera is pointed. Really doesn't look like he's filming her anyway.

Would you agree that the road is sloping down to the left? Why is the front tire of the motobike barely visibile? It would seem to me that the motobike is actually to the left of HJ and explains why the front tire looks like it is hidden. Looking at it from a situational perspective, HJ is about to pass a rider on her right. I don't think the motobike would be to the right in this situation for safety reasons.

With all that being said, regardless of where the moto actually is, it is pushing air. In this case, I would suspect this is for some sort of post-production piece and is not going to be there for very long as it has other riders to film to as well.


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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [ In reply to ]
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The moto could have come up from behind, passed her, and no be pulling away to a greater distance in front her. The photo could have been taken just after the moto passed her and had not yet created a gap.
Or the moto may have been farther in front at an acceptable diatance and briefly dropped back for a shot, then pulled back away.
The drafting opportunity would have been very shortlived in either of these examples. Its near impossible to tell from a static photo what is happening in a dynamic situatuon.
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
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Moto is behind her... what's the point?
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [Fleck] [ In reply to ]
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best part of that picture is that her mom is there racing too, in the black kit

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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [Carl] [ In reply to ]
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Sorta how i see it, in fact it *appears* to me as if the moto is behind and/or off the the right, otherwise that's a HUGE moto and HUGE cameraman relative to HJ. Perspectives are off for it to be in front.

But I wasn't there my .02 etc etc etc. Moto pacing certainly occurs but can't say for sure what's going on here.
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [Multisportsdad] [ In reply to ]
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looks more like she's drafting her mom than the moto


Multisportsdad wrote:
best part of that picture is that her mom is there racing too, in the black kit
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Re: Video moto at Aruba - crikey!! [sp1ke] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah I don't get it. It's pretty clear that it's behind her. Before reading what people wrote I thought the concern was that it was too close behind her for safety not that she was drafting it.

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