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Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem...
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Bit of help and advice please.

I have put together my bike and fitted it with Ultegra 6870 Di2 (TT version with shifters on the brakes too) everything seemed to be going well, including the RD.

HOWEVER I am having trouble getting the FD right. I have got the low and high adjustments sorted fine with the 2mm Allen key, the problem lies with the electric adjustment when in the big chainring and biggest sprocket... the chain guide isn't far enough in to keep the chain on the big chain ring (due to the automatic FD adjustment) and it keeps dropping into the small chainring. I have switched the red button on to try and do as per instructions ie adjust the FD in micro amounts with the switches that usually move the FD.

Problem is that the FD doesn't seem to be electronically micro-adjusting with the red light on.

Any idea what I may be doing wrong?

Many thanks
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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Pretty sure the FD on Di2 does not micro adjust for indexing like the RD does. The key is to get the height/body angle set correctly and make sure you have the set screw which the FD pushes off against touching your braze on and then from there setting your limits, I would question how tight your high is if it is pulling the chain off the big cog when in the big/big combo.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [jph437] [ In reply to ]
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My FD reacts when the RD moves across the range... (perhaps twice)... but I am on Ultegra Di2 10-speed (6770)

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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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The beast advice I can give is to download the Shimano dealer manual and follow the directions. I have set up 5 Di2 systems (3 7970, 2 9070) and all have worked perfectly after using the dealer manual. Google Shimano Dealer Manual

Good Luck, E.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [TriSliceRS] [ In reply to ]
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TriSliceRS wrote:
My FD reacts when the RD moves across the range... (perhaps twice)... but I am on Ultegra Di2 10-speed (6770)

Mine does, too. Also 6770.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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There isn't a micro adjust on the FD. Once you have the FD height set above the big ring you then make sure that the FD cage is aligned with the chainrings. The 2mm set screw is used to brace the FD so it dosen't stress the FD mount. The 2mm set screw is also used to fine tune the FD cage alignment with the chainrings. After all of that is set, then you start using the limit screws to fine tune the range of motion.

I set low limit so that the FD cage is as close to the chain in the small chainring / largest cog without rubbing. Then you move on to the high limit to and do the same with the big chaing ring / small cog. I usually play around with that combination some to make sure that the chain won't drop to the outside.

The shimano dealer manual or the Park tools install page provide step by step directions with pictures to help with the set up.

The FD trim is done automatically during shifting as a result of the rear derailleur being in a specified position in relation to the cassette to prevent the FD cage from rubbing the chain in certain combinations.

Does that help?
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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What chainrings are you using? That could affect things.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [officespaced] [ In reply to ]
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Not true. Shimano introduced FD micro adjustment on the 9070 DA Di2 and carried it on to the 6870 as well. It's in the dealer manual for those systems. See page 57 of this document:

http://si.shimano.com/...DM-UL0001-00-ENG.pdf

Back to the OP.......I've had the same issue, if you are at the extreme of the limits, either because the chainring chainline is off, or because the stops are set wrong. Are you sure your crank and BB spacers are right?
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [goodboyr] [ In reply to ]
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Yes, as mentioned above page 57, step 3 shows there are 12 micro adjustments outward.
http://si.shimano.com/...DM-UL0001-00-ENG.pdf

Turn the top adjustment bolt completely clockwise so it is moved closest to the large chainring.
Then do the electronic microadjustments for the front derailleur and press the long up shift button the full 12 micro adjustments outward.
At this point, this is the furthest out your front derailleur can go.

If it still doesn't want to shift up to the large chainring, then you have an issue with the alignment of your front derailleur. Try removing it and try again and make sure the support bolt is pressing against something.


If it still doesn't work, your chainline could be off as suggested by goodboyr.
Last edited by: vkw: Mar 17, 14 19:54
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [goodboyr] [ In reply to ]
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I didn't see that in the manual before. Thanks for the heads up.

Then the question for the OP is what crank / bb / frame combination are you using?

I would hesitate to go straight to the micro adjust until you have checked the chainline. The chainline gets a little extreme with 11spd as you start move to the larger cogs in the cassette while in the big ring.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [vkw] [ In reply to ]
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Thankyou everyone for your advice.

Ok, so the BB is a praxis conversion and the crankset is a Rotor 3D (standard 24mm) 110 BCD with compact Osymmetric rings (50/36), housing a Power2max. The FD shifts up and down with this set up without any bother.

The HED hubs I have support only a 10 spd cassette (at the moment) so I have installed the 11 spd cassette but removed one of the middle sprockets and spacers... The RD shifts without problem, high and low limits are set correctly for this set up.

I have tried resetting the chain guide so it is in proper alignment with the chainset + support bolt is in.... All good.

I have mechanically adjusted the low and high bolts as per the manual and the space suggested.

The angle when I'm in the larger sprockets and the big chain ring pulls the chain off and the FD doesn't stop it.... it is miles away. So I don't think it needs to be able to go out any further, but could do with adjusting inwards.....

.... here lies the problem, I can't seem to get it to electronically adjust?

To attempt this I press junction A until the red light is on, then using the Shift buttons for the FD (I'm assuming these are the correct buttons to use) I press them.... however NO response. I tried using the shifters on the TT bars and on the brakes but neither do anything (there is none of the tiny movement or 'whirring' noise like the RD electronic adjustment). I've even pressed the RD shifters at this point and that still microadjusts.

Personally I feel that if I can get the electronic shifting to work then I'll fix the problem. I have a PCE-1 and attached it all to my computer, there appear to be no problems ... However that was last done before I attempted setting the FD micro adjustments electronically.

All help gratefully appreciated.

Thanks.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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Its a very tiny movement. You have to be really close to the FD to see it. And it if it's at the extreme position of adjustment it doesn't move anymore. You can also do it via the pce and thw pce will tell you where on the adjustment steps you are presently.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [goodboyr] [ In reply to ]
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Ok thanks. Would there not be an electrical whirring sound like the RD when it micro-adjusts, cos mine isn't? Also if it is at the extreme, could it not micro-adjust the other way, or does it automatically not micro-adjust either way at this point?

Thanks again.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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If its at the extreme it just stops micradjusting. You have to push the other shifter button to make it go the other way. If there is a sound its very slight.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [goodboyr] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, no movement or noise TBH.

I'll have to link it up to the PCE-1 I think.

I can't imagine it is at the extreme as it loves further over when in the smaller sprocket in the big chain ring?
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [goodboyr] [ In reply to ]
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I'm aiming to connect it to the SM-PCE and see if I can micro-adjust using the PC/laptop. Hopefully that can also iron out any snags that may be present.

Thanks
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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I don't think your problem is with the FD.

" when in the big chainring and biggest sprocket... the chain guide isn't far enough in to keep the chain on the big chain ring (due to the automatic FD adjustment) and it keeps dropping into the small chainring."

So, when you are cross-geared (you shouldn't do this often if at all), the chain drops off the big chainring.

The FD should NOT be 'keeping the chain on the big ring', it should stay on by itself. The automatic trimming of the FD moves it out of the way to keep it from rubbing and making noise.

Check your chain length. It might be too short and putting too much tension on everything.

.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [efernand] [ In reply to ]
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Yup....I missed that. Good point to check chain length. As stated, the FD does not keep the chain on, it should be there on its own.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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Another possibility regarding the micro adjusting mode for the FD. I think you need to have the firmware updated to the newest version for this mode to work, I tried it several times on my ultegra 11 speed di2 and couldn't get it to work with the original firmware that it shipped with. I have since updated all the components but I haven't tried using this micro mode since. Good Luck!

"I swim because that's how I get to ride my bike."

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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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The micro adjust function for the FD is locked in the Adjust mode unless you have the RD in the largest cog before entering Adjust mode. I didn't check to see if you could only use micro adjust in the large chainring. If you don't have the RD in the largest cog you get a red blink on the junction box everytime you press the shifter button and the FD doesn't move.

When the RD is in the largest cog and you hit the FD shifter buttons in the Adjust mode, the FD will make the micro movement just like the RD does when you adjust it. This doesn't appear to be linked to a firmware version for the 9070 and 6870 groups. I'm not sure if this function was or will be added to the 6770 groups in a firmware update.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [officespaced] [ In reply to ]
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Did you even get this problem fixed?? I have the exact same issue.......
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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Anyone else have this problem and the fix. I am suspecting it may be the firmware but not sure.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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esox.flucius wrote:
... compact Osymmetric rings (50/36....

I had Osymmetric rings on my shiv and converted from 10 speed to 11 speed (mechanical SRAM friction shifters). When I switched to 11 speed, I tried adjusting literally for hours to keep the chain from dropping, but no success. I moved the FD forward/back/up/down/changed angles (even pulled out the grinder to increase the range of forward/back adjustment). The chain would drop frequently with and without load no matter what I did. Had all the LBS mechanics brainstorm as well with no luck. My theory is that the Osy rings were just really struggling with the narrower 11sp chain on certain shifting combinations. My Osy chainrings are pretty crude compared to the SRAM/Shimano rings with the ramps, pins, etc., and I just don't think they are as well suited for 11 speed. Osy offers updated rings now with pins/ramps, so maybe these would work better. I also know that some people have been successful running the old Osy rings on 11 speed, so maybe it was just me, but I couldn't figure it out. It was a shame because I really liked them.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [Runninfool] [ In reply to ]
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The Shimano manual is not all it is cracked up to be. Do what it says and then if you still have the big chain ring problem: Set to big on sprocket and adjust with the H adjuster using your 2mm key until the transition works for the big chain ring. Fine tune with electronic setting if necessary. Check that all combinations work and that should fix it.
It took me an hour or two to figure it out, I hope this helps.
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Re: Ultegra 6870 Di2 Front Derailleur problem... [esox.flucius] [ In reply to ]
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I haven't bothered to read any other replies, but here's my advice.

Make sure the height and pitch are properly set. Once done, go ahead and try to shift to the big ring. From here you will adjust the H stop screw until it shifts to the big ring. Go ahead and shift all the way to your highest gear in the back (11t or 12t) and then begin the fine adjustment. I like to set the front derailleur cage centered on the big ring, and then slowly adjust the stop screw until the outside of the cage is closest to the chain without rubbing. This will prevent the system from over shifting while still allowing proper shifting between the small and big ring.

There has never been fine adjustment electronically for the front derailleur via the A junction box. There is a calibration process within the e-tube project software you download to your computer, but that has nothing to do with your scenario and hardly anyone ever needs to go through with that process. It just need the stop screws set properly.

Hope this helps.

esox.flucius wrote:
Bit of help and advice please.

I have put together my bike and fitted it with Ultegra 6870 Di2 (TT version with shifters on the brakes too) everything seemed to be going well, including the RD.

HOWEVER I am having trouble getting the FD right. I have got the low and high adjustments sorted fine with the 2mm Allen key, the problem lies with the electric adjustment when in the big chainring and biggest sprocket... the chain guide isn't far enough in to keep the chain on the big chain ring (due to the automatic FD adjustment) and it keeps dropping into the small chainring. I have switched the red button on to try and do as per instructions ie adjust the FD in micro amounts with the switches that usually move the FD.

Problem is that the FD doesn't seem to be electronically micro-adjusting with the red light on.

Any idea what I may be doing wrong?

Many thanks
Last edited by: Annonomys539: Aug 28, 16 19:32
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