A sprint distance race, by definition, has no set distances. It is what that RD can fit in around those specs.

An Olympic is not double a sprint. It is 1.5K/40K/10K. But again, the RD just gets as close to this as possible, just like any IM race or world event.

If you do not like the race, just do not do it. I only do sanctioned race. For me, I am chasing ranking points, which is what motivates me, especially
as I get older and very few good older folks race in events I enter.

You know you can always put on your own races that meet your specs.

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Eh I think it's simplicity. Meaning what do you call my local race that is 1500m swim, 30 mi bike, 10k run? Of course you call it an Olympic distance.

Just like you call a sprint anything "short". And most of these odd distances aren't to make it odd but because of easibility/access that the RD can build a course.


Funny that in 2012 London the bike was ~43km for triathlon course.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

the only real annoyance is if an course is marketed as one thing but is really another distance.

Meaning I don't care if they say it's an Olympic but has 30 mile course. But if it's advertised as an "Olympic" without an note of "30 mile course" that's sorta bigger annoyance than trying to get every race an specific distance. Most are already pretty close as it is.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

People bitch when their garmins for a course is offs like .1 miles. Always funny when you put multiple garmins together for the same race, they are all different. :)

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Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

One thing we do not need is more 180 degree turns on a bike course to make sure it is a set distance. The pro have enough trouble if it is a little wet. A lot of age grouper have trouble just riding straight. One of the local races I do has a 180 turn at the half way point and it is always touch and go due to other participant's bike handling skills.

I thought at one point something longer than a sprint, meaning half an Olympic distance, but not exactly 1.5K 40K 10K and shorter than a half iron man was referred to as "International Distance"

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"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt

I've never heard it referred to that.

I've always thought international = Olympic, vice versa.

But ive never used international as middle distance between sprint/Olympic. There really isn't much races like that I wouldn't think.

Sprints are usually referenced as this distance:

Pool-
Swim- 200-300m usually
Bike- under 20k
Run- 5k or less

OWS:
Swim- 750m
Bike- 20k
Run- 5k

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Sometimes the local venue.... which might be awesome... just doesn't lend itself to "standard" distances. Personally, I think venue > standard distances. E.g. I think the Chicago Triathlon is a great venue. The sprint is a 750m swim, 16 mile bike, and 3.1 mile run but running in transition adds about .75 of a mile to the running. That certainly doesn't deter anyone from doing it, nor should it. Nor should it not be USAT sanctioned just because it's not a "standard" distance.

I have no idea what is the correct terminology, but what I have seen most commonly used in Florida is that "international" means similar to but not exactly the Olympic distance. So an Oly is 1.5K-40K-10K and an international might be 1K-22 miles-10K, or 800m-27mi - 5.5 mi or whatever.

A first world problem...

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

The first half-ironman (non-IM branded) advertised it as the normal race distances. But come race day, the swim ended up being ~1.5 miles and the bike ended up being 60 miles. Pretty frustrating hitting 56 miles and not having any idea when the big leg is going to end.

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Matt

thus, this sprint race should not be sanctioned, and i should not have to pay $12 extra for the race which has a course too short to even safely fit the bike course marshals

I guess I just don't understand the concern about distances always being the same from course to course even though they may use the same name such as sprint, olympic, etc. If one leg is a little longer or little shorter who cares. There are several local races I do that are the same distance but the times vary widely because of terrain so its not like I can compare one time to the other. As other people have said, I am more worried about the course making sense in terms of safety with turnarounds and such than I am the race being a prescribed distance. My favorite local race is a 2-loop 1000 yard Aussie exit, 20 mile, and 4 mile run and it is billed as a sprint but is not what most people would consider a sprint. To each his own I guess.

In NC, most races that closely resemble Oly distance are called Int'l. I think there are only a few races that are actually Olympic distance races and are marketed as such.

Yep! The RD's here will call it an Olympic if it actually has those distances. And as you note, there aren't too many of them.

How does standardizing every race distance help? What does it actually accomplish?

Because I can tell you all across the country there are RD's who put on sprint distances that have 11.5 mile bike loop, 10 mile bike loop, 12 mile bike loop that they've done for years and it's easy, all the permits are done, no extra work, and when you tell them they have to do a "standard" distance and add onto to that, they'll roll their eyes at you. Like I said, most times races have an "odd" distance it's because ease of accessibility. It seems like a cool idea on paper, but then when you realize it's not really an issue right now, or by doing it you accomplish...what again?

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I have seen RD's simply use LONG COURSE and SHORT COURSE when distances are not 1.5/40/10K etc.

One of my favorite races in my neck of the woods has a short course which is a 500m lake swim, a 9.0 mile bike and a 5K run. It used to be a 2.4 mile run but they increased it about 3 years ago. The bike course is two 4.5 laps around a park closed to traffic but pretty hilly, 522 feet of climbing over 9 miles.

The LONG course version of this race is double the swim (1000m) and double the bike laps (18 miles) but the run only increases to 4.5 miles. I prefer the LONG course because running is my weakest of the three. Short course heavily favors the good runners.

It's a USAT sanctioned event, thankfully as it was an inexpensive way for me to punch my USAT nationals ticket a couple of times.

I think some races just need to stay unique, like Alcatraz etc.

we can start making time standards, perhaps establish a CAT like system for tri. running has time standards..... and yes course elevations vary.

What would the time standards establish? Or why is that necessary?

Cat system isn't dependent on the race distance, we've already got a system that can "quantify" every race result in the country- usat's power score.

eta: what i'm trying to get at is that i dont really think sport is lacking because of this issue. So it's like that seems like a cool idea on paper, but this isnt bike racing or run racing. This is a sport where you as a RD has to put 3 courses together. So I'm not really all that much for making it where instead of a intersection turn around, the course has a u-turn in the middle of a road because well it has to be that exact distance.

Like I said, the olympic triathlon in 2012 wasn't even 40k. I didn't really hear much of a peep from people complaining.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

USAT is ok with the labeling of races as Olympic/Sprint etc as long as the distances are stated clearly on all advertising and website.

I look forward to you hosting a race series that meets your requirements. Best of luck in maintaining a safe, enjoyable course with all the necessary permits.

it kills the vibe with non standard distance. you can ask someone what is your 5k time and it will be pretty accurate way to gauge their fitness and whether you can pace off them, or talk smack, etc etc. ask their sprint time or Olympic time and that throws question marks in your face. real oly races have decreased big time here, by half. sprints are now looked as beginner just finish races.

while people can say a 70.3 or 140.6 time. this is also why long course is popular. you can dig deeper to discuss individual splits so perhaps you can work with each other on weaknesses.

[pink] While we're at it, let's have standardized transition dimensions, elevation profiles, water current values, water temps, air temps, wind, and barometric pressure. For bragging rights sake, lets make it all but impossible for any local organizer to put on an USAT certified event. [/pink]

Seriously, for bragging rights sake you want to make the race organizer's task even more difficult that it already is? Come one. You mention IM and HIM distance being standard, and therefore competitors can compare there results to others in other events. You should know better. As soon as somebody mentions a PB for completing an IM or HIM, the first question they will be asked is "on what course?" Because anybody in the loop knows a 10:30 at Lake Placid or Whistler is vastly different than a 10:30 at Texas or Florida.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

I've always thought international = Olympic, vice versa.

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I don't know where you guys are from but we rarely get something referred to as 'international' unless it involves athletes from many nations. They typically use the term 'intermediate' to mean an olympic distance-ish race.

Anyway, I can see the OP's point. If you are going to call something an Olympic distance event, then standardize/ certify the distances. If you don't want to certify it, then use intermediate/ international/ we fit the venue. This way the athletes know what they are getting when they sign up.

What I'd like to see is that the USAT has some sort of certification/ validation process for the actual course to match the published distances. I don't care as much about making the distances perfect so long as the advertised 1.5 km swim is actually 1.5 km, and so forth.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

The real issue with this is that *course certifications* ONLY matter when it comes to time standards. So triathlon isn't a time standard sport like running is. Boston Q times are X standard, doesn't matter if said qualifying marathon is hot/cold/flat/hilly. But triathlon doesn't have "time standards" that qualify you for anything. So there is no real need to certify that every inch of every road is measured other than the *annoyance* for athletes. (which I mentioned in my first post) of it being wrong. But the only reason why run races certify their courses is to get qualifying status more than anything. Qualify for Boston at X marathon or Y marathon. We have that in triathlon too, just that you need to finish in a certain place, not a certain time in order to qualify for nationals/worlds etc.

And there is some culture in that. I'd probaly say it's far less likely your marathon or half isn't Boston or NYC marathon distance certified (halfs for NYC cert, or atleast was a few years back). But in triathlon it's more up to the RD to "build" a race. So like I said, maybe because of safety and ease he has a U turn in an intersection where a cop can better direct traffic, and thus the sprint distance is 12.5 miles instead of 20k. Well it would be a pain in the ass if in order to have a race he now has to move that U turn 128m up into the middle of the road where a u turn won't naturally be able to flow and traffic would be jammed up much more.

ETA: So as I said, this process again does what for the sport? I've still not sure what it improves within the context of triathlon. We aren't a time qualifying sport. We are a placement sport, and thus it doesnt matter if X sprint is 20k bike and Y sprint is 12 mile bike, it's fair to said athletes at each race.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II