Tri-spoke wheels in Kona?

Sep 3, 14 10:22

Post #1 of 33 (11191 views)

I have a set of Hed3 tri spokes (front and back) which are my only race wheels. Honestly the only reason I have them is because I waited until the right frame came up on ebay a few years ago and this is what was included. People often tell me that they are a great wheel, but I never see anyone else with them so I do sometimes wonder why nobody puts their money where their mouth is.

I�m currently planning to take these wheels to Kona. It's my first time there. I�d like to verify with you knowledgeable people whether I am making a ridiculous mistake, or will I have an okay day. I don�t intend or hope to win, but I want to put in a decent showing and not make any stupid decisions. Mainly I am concerned about weight (is it an issue in kona?) and side winds. I don't own anything else myself but I know plenty of people who I might be able to borrow from, or if the situation is really desperate I could rent.

Relevant info (please ask for anything I missed):

Height 190cm (6�3�)
Weight 77kg (170 lb)
At my qualifying race I was in the top 15 of all age grouper bike splits. Flat nontechnical course, a bit of head wind in some areas, very little side wind. (specifically: Kalmar, 4:54)
I am relatively weak at climbing and descending.
I�m not good enough/ experienced enough at bike handling to really notice the difference between different wheels.
I�m a good swimmer, so I hope to avoid the �kona train�

I hope I�m not opening up a long-dead topic, I did a search but could not find anything recent or really answering my situation. Thanks for your advice and comments, if only to direct me to another relevant thread.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:25

Post #2 of 33 (11179 views)

Makes a pretty good rear wheel for high wind races. As for the front, only you know your comfort level. There are periods of high speed high wind that make even pros look pretty nervous on deep wheels sometimes.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:25

Post #3 of 33 (11179 views)

I asked this question recently and basically the newer wheels are just faster overall than the tri spoke wheels hence why no one buys them anymore

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...g=hed%20gt3;#5227234

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Last edited by: BryanD: Sep 3, 14 10:26

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:30

Post #4 of 33 (11154 views)

there's a famous vignette attributed to golfer Jack Nicklaus where in the locker room before the tournament other golfers would complain about the course... "wow, did you see how deep that rough was?" or "wow, the greens on the back 9 are way too slick"... and Jack would mentally check people off a list in his head of people who would never beat him.

I don't know how old you are, but you're being checked off of some lists right now.

That said, I think you already know the right answer to your question.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:36

Post #5 of 33 (11129 views)

There is a good possibility that those wheels could be the best wheels for the course on the day, and just about the same chance for some other wheel being just a tiny bit better under other conditions. Don't worry about it, they are great wheels under most conditions, they are not going to be what holds you back..

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:40

Post #6 of 33 (11119 views)

I take that as a vote for the rear, but does the logic apply to gusty conditions? I heard once that this type of wheel is especially susceptible.
For the front, how can I make a best guess whether it will be okay? I don't ride windy conditions often.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:41

Post #7 of 33 (11111 views)

Thanks for that, and apologies for missing it (and the many similar threads I presume). It's on page 16 now, I guess I should lurk moar.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:48

Post #8 of 33 (11088 views)

The rear will not be a problem.

The front might, only way to know is ride in gusty conditions!

If you want to be safe, borrow a 404ish or something from somebody.

HH wrote:

I take that as a vote for the rear, but does the logic apply to gusty conditions? I heard once that this type of wheel is especially susceptible.
For the front, how can I make a best guess whether it will be okay? I don't ride windy conditions often.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [ericM40-44] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 10:56

Post #9 of 33 (11052 views)

I love this anecdote. I have never heard it before, but (in spite of this thread) it is very aligned with my own views.

It's good because I love being checked off lists.
I also love beating those people on my second hand bike.
so for everyone's info I am in category M30-34.

But in seriousness, I only want to avoid making a really silly decision for conditions I don't know a lot about. The wheels I have now are firmly my default choice, and it would have taken quite a lot to move from that position. Responses here so far suggest that I will stick with them.
Thanks to all for contributing.

Last edited by: HH: Sep 3, 14 11:01

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [BryanD] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 11:07

Post #10 of 33 (11022 views)

BryanD wrote:

I asked this question recently and basically the newer wheels are just faster overall than the tri spoke wheels hence why no one buys them anymore

Yup, noone who knows anything uses tri-spokes anymore.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 11:15

Post #11 of 33 (10983 views)

This was a yaw study at Kona in Oct 2013, but who knows what the winds will be this year. They found yaw >10* for 30% of the distance (at ~25mph). IMHO there are better wheels for the front to deal with the possible winds than the H3...

<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 11:33

Post #12 of 33 (10934 views)

I too rock H3 front & rear. I bought them because they are the best looking wheel combo and I have wanted them for 15 years. Both Mark Allen and PNF won using these wheels as have others including Lance in the TDF.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [dmacandcheese] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 11:43

Post #13 of 33 (10910 views)

Sure, given unlimited budget etc this would be a different question though. I know that H3 is not the absolute optimal wheel, but my threshold for switching is not if it is sub-optimal, but more if it is actively a bad choice.
Or is that what you are saying?

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 11:58

Post #14 of 33 (10881 views)

HH wrote:

Sure, given unlimited budget etc this would be a different question though. I know that H3 is not the absolute optimal wheel, but my threshold for switching is not if it is sub-optimal, but more if it is actively a bad choice.
Or is that what you are saying?

Distilling it down: sure, for a windy course like Kona and for triathlon where you're not going 30+mph, you're probably faster with something that stalls in a crosswind (i.e., standard deep wheel front, dish rear). However, Chris Froome used a tri-spoke front in the Vuelta *yesterday*, so it's not like it's a massively out of date slow wheel. It's a good wheel and you won't lose much if anything by using it. There are very likely other things that you should focus on more, though. Plus, as has also been pointed out, nothing looks cooler than a tri-spoke!

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 12:45

Post #15 of 33 (10802 views)

HH wrote:

Sure, given unlimited budget etc this would be a different question though. I know that H3 is not the absolute optimal wheel, but my threshold for switching is not if it is sub-optimal, but more if it is actively a bad choice.
Or is that what you are saying?

Depends on your threshold for "bad", but yes, that's what he's saying

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 13:22

Post #16 of 33 (10748 views)

HH wrote:

People often tell me that they are a great wheel, but I never see anyone else with them so I do sometimes wonder why nobody puts their money where their mouth is.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 13:37

Post #17 of 33 (10701 views)

I've run dual Hed3's, although most of the time it's a H3 front, disc rear. Windy days require a bit more attention but I (and an emphasis on N=1 here) don't find them to be too egregious compared to even a 30mm alloy rim front. It's important to take them out on a few windy days to get used to their behavior, but I'd be riding them in Kona.

And, compared to modern wheels, they're just about as fast as anything else out there, especially, especially at lower yaw #'s. The biggest drawback appears to be their handling. And you own them! Make sure that you have a fresh conti supersonic 20 up front (or at least do a good search on hed3 tires), and go rock them with impunity. If you're worried, run a different front wheel with the best rubber you can afford.

The question of who is right and who is wrong has seemed to me always too small to be worth a moment's thought, while the question of what is right and what is wrong has seemed all-important.

-Albert J. Nock

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 14:13

Post #18 of 33 (10650 views)

HH wrote:

Sure, given unlimited budget etc this would be a different question though. I know that H3 is not the absolute optimal wheel, but my threshold for switching is not if it is sub-optimal, but more if it is actively a bad choice.
Or is that what you are saying?

Well you originally stated "I don't own anything else myself but I know plenty of people who I might be able to borrow from, or if the situation is really desperate I could rent."
If you can borrow a modern U type deep wheel (e.g. Zipp Firecrest 404 type) in case the winds are an issue. Otherwise roll with what you have and enjoy the experience.

<We all know that light travels faster than sound. That's why certain people appear bright until you hear them speak>

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 16:33

Post #19 of 33 (10540 views)

As opposed to theory...
I rode Specialized trispokes (same a H3) in '95 in Kona , it was a particularly wicked, windy year. I was 6'3", 178, and yes it was an interesting ride.
I think they are a great choice, if you feel you can handle them. Wide blade forks are a nice advantage I didn't have, and if paired witht he right tires, I don't think you could go 30sec faster with anything else on the market.

Do it.

-bobo

"What's good for me ain't necessarily good for the weak-minded."

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 16:48

Post #20 of 33 (10513 views)

I would say it's not a bad choice. But see if you can get into some side wind scenarios before you get there. The front going behind the fork with sideway winds and higher speeds (20+ MPH) can make a "pulsing" effect on the steering which is interesting if you haven't felt it before! Otherwise I don't think they are bad choice! Have a good race!

---------------------------
http://www.o-block.com/

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [bobo] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 16:50

Post #21 of 33 (10512 views)

Bobo knows (even if he is from Leesville), put them wheels on your bike and ride the course like you own it.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 17:18

Post #22 of 33 (10471 views)

I have some 650C HED3 on my old Cervelo P2K. I have ridden them in a number of races on some pretty windy days. I have found them to be no problem. That said, they are small, I am heavy and I'm a good bike handler, and not afraid of the wind.

If Kona is windy, you might have some issues, but you will have the same issues on any wheel of similar depth. As for how you will look, you will be fine. Racing HED3 at Kona will be fine. They are an excellent all round race wheel.

If you're nervous about it, take your training front wheel along too, and swap that on if the weather forecast is for a super windy day.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [johnnybefit] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 17:27

Post #23 of 33 (10453 views)

Not to hijack the thread but LA never won on HED3 at TdF. Based on commentary at this years race, no-one by the name of Lance Armstrong was ever born, let alone race there and I know he never won there :-)

This does not mean the HED3 wheel isn't a great wheel however :-)

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 17:48

Post #24 of 33 (10431 views)

I'll be rocking a Corima 4-spoke & Zipp 404 front in Kona, never had any issues with either of them. You'll be fine. Plus, you don't have to worry about a pulling a spoke through the rims using a H3 (or Corima). Likely, as usual, I'll be one of only a few people using a Corima 4-spoke. Very rare to see them around anymore (because few places in the USA sell them not because they're a bad wheel). You'll be fine, don't stress about it.

Re: Tri-spoke wheels in Kona? [HH] [ In reply to ]

Sep 3, 14 17:54

Post #25 of 33 (10423 views)

HH:

Race with what you own on the first trip there. More in your head than on the course. If you do well, race with them when you return. If not, switch when you return. I rode a quad front and tri spoke rear in '04 with strong winds. Worked out well. I went light on Mavics last year because that's what I qualified on in climbing hills. Either way, for Kona, it's more in your head and what you put out on the run. Ride like the wind.

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