Probably unrelated, but invariably when I see someone struggling by the roadside, they're not on tubs.

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29 years and counting

I've seen flatted tubs on the side of the road in training, but I can't say that I've ever seen anyone on tubs flat during a race.

I definitely have seen several tubular flats in triathlons.

I flatted more on tubulars in the little time than clinchers.

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I've only seen one trek pro on a re-branded hed disc.

The others are usually on super 9s or lightweight discs.... at least that's what I've seen. Though I haven't see any super 9s from them in last few years.

IMO, the argument between tubulars and clinchers have nothing to do with aerodynamics. It's more about crr. There are faster tires available for clinchers than tubulars. Look at the toma testing and compare the fastest clincher tires to the top tubulars. How many clincher tires are faster than the tubulars?

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No arguments as to what is faster, more aero, or has better rolling resistance as I've seen the testing.

The Bontrager R4 320 tests slightly slower than a Turbo cotton and on paper the Aeolus TLR clinchers should be fast. I can't see a reason to not run that setup with a latex tube. If I were a Trek pro that is.

I've flatted brand new tubulars in their 2nd ride out. I've not flatted tubulars after 2 years of riding on them. Same brand.

I've flatted brand new clinchers with tubes in the first 30 seconds, pinched flat operator error. I've not flatted clinchers with tubes after 2 years of riding on them

It's just the luck of the draw for me.

That's been my experience too.
I grew up riding tubulars, LOVE them, love the ride, like the fact that the overall wheelset is lighter (yes I know that doesn't make much diff), etc.
But, in the end, for tri's, it just seemed to make more sense to use clinchers, even though it is kind of disappointing to me given my love of tubulars. I think I still have a mix of about 15 new veloflex carbons and vittoria corsas hanging in my basement...
My reasoning for clinchers:
- much cheaper to buy a new GP4000SII ($40 Can. online from UK)
- clinchers always mount straight. With tubies, even with 20 years experience, its hard to get them -perfectly- straight, and there is often a small hump by the valve core. I've tried shaving off base tape material there, but still hard to get it perfect.
- I don't mind dealing with glue, but its just so much easier to slap on a new clincher at any moment, not have to think about residue glue affecting how straight the new tire goes on, etc.
- and of course, they are supposedly faster in terms of rolling resistance. But for this MOP'er, the diff isn't enough to even think about....

I imagine someday my love for tubies will win out.... :) But for now, it's hard to argue against clinchers.

As for Trek pro's, I believe Tim O usually uses tubulars on his Bontrager wheels, no?

I'll be honest. I know a couple of Trek pro's personally, very well I may add. None of them really give much thought to equipment they just focus on building the biggest engines they can. I have another neo-pro sort of fanatic who I also talk to who does pay more attention and he told me that the Trek marketing guys said one thing, while I know for a fact the engineers have said another.

Both can be fast, both have advantages and disadvantages, but if Kienle, Frodo, and Tony Martin win World Championships on clinchers I think they are plenty fast without the hassle of dealing with tubulars.

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I'd love to hear the engineer's side of the story. With today's wide rims, supple clinchers, and latex tube, I can't see a reason for tubs anymore. Unless there is a data point I'm missing.

You aren't missing anything. I have a few friends that are still running tubulars. I ask them if they have considered switching to clinchers and they look at me weird and ask why? I proceed to tell them because they are faster and I get a weird look like I have no idea what I'm talking about. A few them also think tubulars are better because they can change a flat faster (either with pitstop or a spare tubular tire) than you can with clinchers.

The tubular crowd is much like roadies. Stubborn and very resistant to change.

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More about the size of the tires, not tubular versus clinchers.

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If I were a pro in a race with wheel support and I wasn't planning on fixing the flat myself (carrying a spare tubular or a spare tube for a clincher), I would absolutely use tubulars.

When a tubular goes flat, you can still ride on it. The tire is glued to the rim, so unlike a flat clincher where the beads are no longer locked in, the tire won't roll off while riding in a straight line. Yes, you could damage the rim if you hit a hole or rock, and you probably need to slow down some, or not lean hard into any corners...but you can signal for neutral support without having to come to a complete stop right away. This could mean seconds...or minutes saved depending how far back wheel support is. Or...if you're only a couple miles from the finish...just ride the flat tubular in rather than stopping.

You see it quite often in pro cycling. A guy has a flat, puts his hand up, and keeps riding until either a teammate or the team car is ready to give them a wheel...and only then do they stop.

Pros have follow cars and races, professional mechanics and need to ride out a flat for a longer period than normal riders- the perfect storm for continued tubular use. Most are on clinchers when training.

Tell that to Joe Skipper who has dnf'd on two races this year because he was on tubulars, didn't carry a spare or pitstop, and relied solely on race support. Race support took over 30 min or more to come.

For triathletes, tubulars make no sense anymore.

For pure cyclists, yes, tubulars make sense there.

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See my post above about Joe Skipper. You cannot 100% rely on race support in pro triathlon.

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Each athlete is responsible for doing their own level of due diligence on how much neutral wheel support there will be, how much a race means to them in terms of if they flat, and how the time loss will impact their goals.

If Joe Skipper assumed there would be neutral wheel support for him, and decided to run clinchers and not carry a flat kit...it doesn't change anything. Sure a clincher flat kit is easier to carry than a tubular one, but as I mentioned, an athlete is responsible to weight the pros and cons for themselves. My original statement you quoted was under the assumption that I was an athlete who had no intention of repairing my own flat and relying 100% on neutral support. Obviously that's not always the case for every pro, at every race.

Joe is on tubulars.

My whole point is, it makes no sense for any triathlete (excluding draft legal races) to be on tubulars (pro or AG). And I would also say that for any TT as well.

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We get he's on tubulars. Your example implied that you think he DNF'd -because- he was on tubulars, yet thats not the case. He DNF'd because he relied on race support. Same would have happened had he been on clinchers...

Then you misunderstood me as that's not what I was referring to because like you said he dnf'd because he relied on race support. No argument on that.

Someone above made the comment that pros race on tubulars because they can ride on it longer if they get a flat while waiting for support. My comment was that you can't rely on race support in pro triathlon (Joe Skipper example.... he just happened to be on tubulars but that wasn't really my point).

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