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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Lucky 1973] [ In reply to ]
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"Say, you want one? Got to your LBS and pick it up today, heck, have 5 or 10 or 12"

So they are at stores? Seems everyone is having a tough time finding a P2c or a P3c....


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"Lemond is cycling's version of Rev Jessie Jackson." -johnnyperu 5/18/07
"Just because I suck doesn't mean my bike has to" -rickn 9/2/08
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
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Does this thread mean I screwed up by buying a Kalibur??? Well thanks a lot Norm! Now I'll never keep up with that damn pink Planet X bike!

________________________________________________________________________
It's not how many years you have left in life, it's how much life you have left in your years!
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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do the bikes race?

no, a human must make them move.

if human a/trek and human b/cervelo P3C race, who will win?

the stronger/well trained rider NOT the faster bike!!!

Retul Certified Fitter. gebioMized pressure mapping equipped Fit Lab
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [hideano] [ In reply to ]
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Keep that NON-sense to yourself please,,,,,,,,,,lol
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [brandonecpt] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
"Say, you want one? Got to your LBS and pick it up today, heck, have 5 or 10 or 12"

So they are at stores? Seems everyone is having a tough time finding a P2c or a P3c....
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Lucky 1973] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
The TTX 9.9 might be faster than a P3C but given their scarcity and unavailability it really doesn't matter now does it? Why bother with a fancy test on something you don't actually sell - what I mean by this is a shortage on supply of frames.

Trek: Our bike is crazy fast and aero, look at the pro's who ride it! Very distinguished athletes ride our bike the TTX. However, we are really sorry to tell you this but you can't have one b/c we don't actually have any ourselves to sell you, especially not the venerable 9.9 SSL (wait til spring 08 at least). Further, you have to visit a Trek LBS to acquire, don't trip on the tricycles or big wheels while you spend $8000.

Cervelo: Our bike is crazy fast and aero, look at the pro's who ride it. Very distinguished athletes ride our bike the P3c and p2c. Say, you want one? Got to your LBS and pick it up today, heck, have 5 or 10 or 12.

There is a part of the story that wasn't covered...availability ; )

Hence, I am getting carpal tunnel syndrome trying to find a used one on the net.
I HAVE ONE.....................na na, na na na..........!!


http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [ShawnF] [ In reply to ]
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You know, I can't help but notice the number of bike companies, fairly prominent ones at that, that benchmark the P3C as the defacto standard for aerodynamics.


Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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Blame yourself, the dealers and consumers created the benchmark.

I'm not sure why bikes like the Lotus or Superbike aren't used, they are the benchmark.

Isn't the softride & Zipp reported faster than any double diamond frame? Why doesn't the public, the dealers and industry as a whole use them?

-SD

Dave Koesel � General Manager 3T US
dave.koesel A 3Tcycling.com
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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Isn't the softride & Zipp reported faster than any double diamond frame? Why doesn't the public, the dealers and industry as a whole use them?

Wouldn't the simple answer be UCI legality?

.

Bob C.

The "science" on any matter can never be settled until every possible variable is taken into account.
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [psycholist] [ In reply to ]
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Ah yes, well that is certainly what drives the marketing: the UCI professionals aboard them.

Afterall, no one got excited about Obree's bike.

Given the P3c's palmares under Dave Z. and Fabian the past few years, it is an easy (and commercially marketed and attainable) target/benchmark.


-SD

Dave Koesel � General Manager 3T US
dave.koesel A 3Tcycling.com
Last edited by: SuperDave: Dec 21, 07 13:10
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Blame yourself, the dealers and consumers created the benchmark.

I'm not sure why bikes like the Lotus or Superbike aren't used, they are the benchmark.

Isn't the softride & Zipp reported faster than any double diamond frame? Why doesn't the public, the dealers and industry as a whole use them?

-SD
People that know would and should use the Lotus or Superbike as a benchmark. People that want to sell stuff wouldn't. They need to feed the consumerism driven by having the fastest stuff readily available and most easily seen in the hands of a pro, not necessarily the fastest stuff that ever existed.
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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...I get it, that's why we have to drag so many bikes to the wind tunnel for testing. It isn't enough to have a SBII, SBIII, Hooker, Hotta, Lotus, we also need to bring the canadian, french, and aussie track frames...

-SD
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
...I get it, that's why we have to drag so many bikes to the wind tunnel for testing. It isn't enough to have a SBII, SBIII, Hooker, Hotta, Lotus, we also need to bring the canadian, french, and aussie track frames...

-SD


I know you do and I applaud your team for trying to create the fastest bikes ever, not just the fastest double diamond. It's cool to see a company be so active in creating a product that they can engineer to the level that a marketer can sell. That's no easy feat!
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [fiddlesandbikes] [ In reply to ]
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We've got way more enginerds than people in marketing, that's for sure...

-SD

Dave Koesel � General Manager 3T US
dave.koesel A 3Tcycling.com
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
We've got way more enginerds than people in marketing, that's for sure...

-SD
Dave, I would trade my TTX for a DA.............just thought I'd make that comment.................


http://theworldthroumyeyes.tumblr.com/
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
...I get it, that's why we have to drag so many bikes to the wind tunnel for testing. It isn't enough to have a SBII, SBIII, Hooker, Hotta, Lotus, we also need to bring the canadian, french, and aussie track frames...

Shouldn't that be the Lotus, SBII/Canadian, SBI/Hooker, French (LOOK), and Aussie/French (Corima) track frames? ;-) (Not sure where a Hotta might fall.)

EDIT: Of course, a glaring omission from this list is the BCF track frame...
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: Dec 21, 07 14:16
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I think you've got your SBs switched, the SBIII I was referring to is this one:

It is indeed fast, but not UCI legal, and not SBII fast.


-SD

Dave Koesel � General Manager 3T US
dave.koesel A 3Tcycling.com
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I think you've got your SBs switched, the SBIII I was referring to is this one:

It is indeed fast, but not UCI legal, and not SBII fast.
Not so much switched, as I just skipped over that iteration (which I'd forgotten). Anyway, I've edited my post to reflect what I meant...thanks for helping me set the record straight (assuming, of course, that my memory/guesses are in fact correct).
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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No luck getting one BCF riding Scot to bring his to Ft. Collins last month, otherwise we'd have the full deck, although I understand the special fork turned out not so special once a non-disc wheel was installed up front.

I can't confirm your ranking, I always assume you know more than me anyway...

-SD

Dave Koesel � General Manager 3T US
dave.koesel A 3Tcycling.com
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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That is a totally valid question. Trek is probably responsible for selling a lot of P3C's with their latest round of "tests".


Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I understand the special fork turned out not so special once a non-disc wheel was installed up front.


Interesting, and consistent with what John Cobb has said about aero seatposts (at least if you think about it).

In Reply To:
I can't confirm your ranking, I always assume you know more than me anyway...

If I do, it's only because I've been collecting such numbers like lint for quite some time...
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Tom Demerly] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
Trek is probably responsible for selling a lot of P3C's with their latest round of "tests".
Speaking of Trek, what happened to Damon?
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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I think he's around here occasionally.

Happy Holidays to you Sir.


Tom Demerly
The Tri Shop.com
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [SuperDave] [ In reply to ]
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In Reply To:
I understand the special fork turned out not so special once a non-disc wheel was installed up front.
BTW, did y'all experiment with a comparable ultra-narrow fork? Extrapolating from John's seat post findings, I'm starting to wonder if perhaps a disk front wheel might indeed be faster if paired with such a fork.
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Re: Trek TTX is Faster Than the P3C [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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AC,

I think you'll forgive me if there was a decision to not make a front disc specific fork.

In general:

narrow spaced fork + disc wheel = good
narrow spaced fork + any molded spoked (iO, Hed3, Corima) wheel = very bad
narrow spaced fork + spoked wheel = not so good

wide fork spacing + disc wheel = nearly as good
wide fork spacing + any molded spoked (iO, Hed3, Corima) wheel = not so bad
wide fork spacing + spoked wheel = good

In the interest of making something commercially viable, the latter choice saw development...we did bring the Oval fork along to see if it helped with the molded wheel performace.

-SD

Dave Koesel � General Manager 3T US
dave.koesel A 3Tcycling.com
Last edited by: SuperDave: Dec 21, 07 15:02
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