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Triathlon IM Plan [ In reply to ]
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Hey Guys,
I have 2 questions, but first of all, I want to thank you guys at Trainerroad for the great work! I love your Podcast and the cycling training plans brought my FTP up to 311 (75 kg). Thanks a lot!

After some longer cycling adventures last year (like a 450km ride with 5500hm) my plan for 2019 is my first Ironman distance triathlon (30. June).
This is more time than just the usual BBS-cycle, so my first question is:
  • Should I go for 2x Base, Build, Specialty (low Volume LD-Triathlon) or should I use the time till BBS for a focus on running?

The second question is a bit more delicate. Since this will be my first Ironman attempt and training for such an event is a huge commitment (for me), I need to be able to trust the plans. At this Post Bryce wrote that Running is not a specialty of TR. https://www.reddit.com/r/trainerroad/comments/843g1j/rpe_for_the_triathlon_training_plan_in_minkm/
So my question is:
  • Can I trust the swimming and running part of the TR-plans or should I look for these parts elsewhere?

Thanks for your answers.
I am really a big fan of your work and recommend TR wherever I can. :)




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Re: IPAd Use [yikes] [ In reply to ]
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your options are to connect over either Bluetooth or your Lightning port. If you have a separate heart rate monitor or cadence sensor that connects over one of these channels, you'll want to think about that to make sure you don't have conflicts.

Bluetooth - search for an ANT+ to Bluetooth bridge. There are multiple, here's one: http://store.npe-inc.com/...-connect-ant-to-ble/

Lightning (or dock connector) port - Wahoo makes this: https://www.wahoofitness.com/...ssories/wahoo-key-16 which you'll have to pair with this from Apple: https://www.apple.com/...d--product-MD823AM/A
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Re: IPAd Use [fumanchu282] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
Bluetooth - search for an ANT+ to Bluetooth bridge. There are multiple, here's one: http://store.npe-inc.com/...-connect-ant-to-ble/

I'd get TR to confirm this works - asked earlier this year and it wasn't supported at the time.

Quote:
Lightning (or dock connector) port - Wahoo makes this: https://www.wahoofitness.com/...ssories/wahoo-key-16 which you'll have to pair with this from Apple: https://www.apple.com/...d--product-MD823AM/A

Again, check this works. I started getting an iOS 'device not supported' message following an iOS update when the wahoo key was attached. Haven't used TR all summer so not sure if it works now.
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Bryce, wondering how to structure my upcoming year. Likely goal race is a 70.3 next summer (end July) with a goal holiday of cycling through the Pyrenees about 5 weeks after the race (Sep 3-12).

I ran through low volume 70.3 plans from Feb-July this year. I’ve taken a month off structured training and after spending a week day drinking in Mexico I’m ready to get back to it. What do the TR gurus suggest?

Also, love that you guys are rolling out the calendar. I don’t facebook so will just have to be patient!
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Bryce and Nate,

I am a recent convert to TR; you know it's a great product but I nonetheless wanted to thank you for it.

I have some queries, and have spent a week reading this thread looking for answers. I am up to page 122 but to be honest my wife is losing patience with my obsessive evening reading sessions(!), hence this post.

Background

Male, 50 years old, former T&F sprinter, heavy (I call it muscular) around thighs and butt and likely with more fast twitch fibres than slow twitch
175cm, 68kg (aiming for 66kg)
Running Max HR191; LTHR 171 (blood tests)
Cycling Max HR186; LTHR 161 (BSX but 2 years ago)
Ramp Test FTP of 235
Event: 27 December (sprint only; hilly course)
Plan: Just finished Week 3 of Low Volume Sustained Build

Questions

1. Cadence: I am tending toward a cadence of 100 or above for all sessions. As I understand it, this will place more strain on my aerobic system than my muscular system. I find that, when I drop the cadence, lactate builds up much faster. Question: should I continue with the high cadence or am I wimping out by hiding from that lactate by maintaining a high cadence?

2. Training: My event falls mid-week (after Christmas); I have 15.5 weeks to go. I have 5 weeks left on the Sustained Build and then an 8 weeks Specialised programme to complete - but that leaves 3.5 weeks to fill. What is the most effective way to do that?

3. Race Profile: The race for which I am training is hilly; a rolling course with one climb averaging 11% (only 1km, but it hurts). Should I be tweaking the Specialised programme to take account of the course?

4. LTHR: I completed Galena +1 yesterday (3x20min at 95% FTP). In the second half of the second interval, my HR started climbing above my cycling LTHR (161bpm). I dropped the intensity by 3% and stayed pretty much at 161bpm for the remainder of the interval. In the third interval, I had to drop by 5% to remain within 161bpm.

I then did some research here on ST and discovered that, for cycling, LTHR has a bad rep (ranging from "better to focus on FTP" to "absolutely useless - throw your HRM away"). In the context of a 3x20min interval set, this is counter-intuitive to me. I would have expected the aim of the session to deliver a work out with lactate well below 4.0mols (LTHR (albeit close to LTHR at the end due to drift).

I am not a LTHR zealot; I have abandoned the concept for short intervals (anything up to 10 minutes). However, I would expect a session designed around 3x20min @95% FTP to result in a workout below OBLA, and in turn a HR below LTHR. Questions:

(a) It is possible that my FTP is set too high? Could my high fast twitch composition provide misleading results on the ramp test?
(b) Or am I simply misunderstanding the purpose of the Galena session? Is the session supposed to lead to OBLA?

Apologies for the long post and multiple questions.
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Re: IPAd Use [yikes] [ In reply to ]
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yikes wrote:
Apologies in advance as i am sure that this has been asked and answered but the thread is very long! Using a dumb trainer with powertap and ant+ dongle on a PC . Would like to move to IOS app but obviously there is no USB connection for the ant+ dongle. Is there a way to make this work?

Thanks

Hey Yikes,

The only way to make an iOS device ANT+ compatible in a way that works with our software is through the Wahoo ANT+ Key. This is the only "open source" adapter. If you are running and modern iPhone, you will also need a Lightning to 30 Pin adapter. I have included links below:

Wahoo ANT+ Key
Lighting to 30-Pin Adapter

Cheers!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Triathlon IM Plan [Amnesty] [ In reply to ]
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Amnesty wrote:
Hey Guys,
I have 2 questions, but first of all, I want to thank you guys at Trainerroad for the great work! I love your Podcast and the cycling training plans brought my FTP up to 311 (75 kg). Thanks a lot!

After some longer cycling adventures last year (like a 450km ride with 5500hm) my plan for 2019 is my first Ironman distance triathlon (30. June).
This is more time than just the usual BBS-cycle, so my first question is:
  • Should I go for 2x Base, Build, Specialty (low Volume LD-Triathlon) or should I use the time till BBS for a focus on running?

The second question is a bit more delicate. Since this will be my first Ironman attempt and training for such an event is a huge commitment (for me), I need to be able to trust the plans. At this Post Bryce wrote that Running is not a specialty of TR. https://www.reddit.com/r/trainerroad/comments/843g1j/rpe_for_the_triathlon_training_plan_in_minkm/
So my question is:
  • Can I trust the swimming and running part of the TR-plans or should I look for these parts elsewhere?

Thanks for your answers.
I am really a big fan of your work and recommend TR wherever I can. :)


Hey Amnsesty,

First, I'd like to clear up my comment on our specialties. Cycling is, of course, TrainerRoad's main focus, however, the running and swimming portions are fully developed. Nate, our CEO, has an extensive history with triathlon and Ironman training, and Chad has extensive experience coaching multisport athletes. The point I was trying to make in that thread is that we are not able to estimate running paces for certain RPE levels, since that will vary from person to person and power meters for running don't exist on a mass consumer scale yet. That's like us trying to estimate the ideal average speed for an IM leg based on RPE and no power data- it won't be super accurate.

Now for your first question. When you’re a multisport athlete, you typically want to prioritize your weaker capabilities early in the season but prioritize your limiting capabilities later in the season. For example, weak runners can give greater focus to their running during base and build, but the bike typically bears the lowest hanging fruit and needs its due focus during build and specialized training.

From what I understand, your run is likely weaker than your bike, is that right? If that is the case, spending the time before BBS focusing on your run is a great way to spend your time. While focusing on your run, I would recommend integrating a Low Volume Traitional Base Plan just to keep your cycling specific systems active during this time.

I hope that helps, feel free to follow up with any more questions you may have!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
Last edited by: Bryce Lewis TR: Sep 9, 18 11:39
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Re: Trainer road.com [Scheherazade] [ In reply to ]
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Scheherazade wrote:
Hi Bryce, wondering how to structure my upcoming year. Likely goal race is a 70.3 next summer (end July) with a goal holiday of cycling through the Pyrenees about 5 weeks after the race (Sep 3-12).

I ran through low volume 70.3 plans from Feb-July this year. I’ve taken a month off structured training and after spending a week day drinking in Mexico I’m ready to get back to it. What do the TR gurus suggest?

Also, love that you guys are rolling out the calendar. I don’t facebook so will just have to be patient!

Hey there!

I hope you had a great time in Mexico, glad to hear that it's left you recharged and ready to get back to it :)

For Triathletes who have a little extra time to devote to their season, subsctantial gains can be made through the addition of a Traditional Base Plan prior to starting the Base Build Specialty Plan. This helps to bulk up your aerobic engine, which will help tremendously over the course of a HIM bike leg.

Your season would then look something like this:

Traditional Base (12 Weeks)
Half Distance Base (8 Weeks)
Half Distance Build (8 Weeks)
Half Distance Specialty (8 Weeks)

This only adds up to 36 weeks however, leaving you around 6-8 extra weeks to play with. One way that you could spend this extra time is with an Olympic or Half Distance Build Plan. Which one you choose is up to you, but I've listed the Olympic because it can help with motivation to keep some variety in your training. This plan will be different the plans that you've been doing, which helps keep training new and exciting.

I hope this helps, let me know if you have any more questions for me!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Triathlon IM Plan [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Hi Bryce,

thanks a lot for clearing things up an answering that fast! I appreciate!
I share your thoughts on running pace/rpe. Both are wildly inaccurate when it comes to longer distances/headwind/hills, etc.
Maybe Powermeters for running will ensure clarity someday...

I will try the combination of the focus on running with Traditional Base LV.
Thanks again!
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Re: Trainer road.com [BigHammer] [ In reply to ]
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Hey Big Hammer!

No worries about the long post with multiple questions, that's what I'm here for :)


BigHammer wrote:

1. Cadence: I am tending toward a cadence of 100 or above for all sessions. As I understand it, this will place more strain on my aerobic system than my muscular system. I find that, when I drop the cadence, lactate builds up much faster. Question: should I continue with the high cadence or am I wimping out by hiding from that lactate by maintaining a high cadence?

A higher cadence is actually more efficicent if you can manage it, so keep up the high cadence! Most people have a naturally lower cadence, and need to work to speed up their cadence through training, but it sounds like you're already there :) A higher cadence also takes a lower toll on your connective tissue and your knees, so it's really a win-win situation.

BigHammer wrote:
2. Training: My event falls mid-week (after Christmas); I have 15.5 weeks to go. I have 5 weeks left on the Sustained Build and then an 8 weeks Specialised programme to complete - but that leaves 3.5 weeks to fill. What is the most effective way to do that?

There are a couple of things you can do to add duration to your plan. I will list a few, in no particular order, and you can choose which method works for you.

1. You can repeat 2-3 weeks of Build. For example, you could do Weeks 4-5-6-7-8, and then do a mini-block of 6-7-8.

2. If you are feeling a bit fatigued following the Build Phase of your Training, you can give yourself a bit of time to recover with a week of Traditional Base between your Build and Specialty Phases. This will allow your fatigue to drop so that you are able to tackle the Specialty Phase from a position of power.

3. You can help retain your peak by repeating Specialty Weeks 7 and 8 upon completion of the Specialty Phase. This will extend your training by 2 weeks. This is probably the least advantageous way to use your extra time, however since this time falls during the holidays, it may be nice to have a lower volume of training.

BigHammer wrote:
3. Race Profile: The race for which I am training is hilly; a rolling course with one climb averaging 11% (only 1km, but it hurts). Should I be tweaking the Specialised programme to take account of the course?

I'm not sure I understand the nature of the course. You mention that you are planning to be a sprinter in this race, is that correct?

How much climbing does this course have total? What is the total distance? Is it a road race or a circuit race?

If that one climb is the only major climb in the race, then you will need no special considerations. In fact, a 1 km short climb will ride like a VO2 Max/ Anaerobic effort, which is the energy system you should be developing as sprinter with your standard training.

Which brings me to my next question, if you are planning on being a sprinter, is there a reason that you are using the Sustained Power Build Plan? Typically, a road sprinter will want to use at least the General Build Plan to incorporate some of that short duration, high intensity work into their training. It's totally possible that I am misundertanding the race type, so let me know!

BigHammer wrote:
4. LTHR:

I am not a LTHR zealot; I have abandoned the concept for short intervals (anything up to 10 minutes). However, I would expect a session designed around 3x20min @95% FTP to result in a workout below OBLA, and in turn a HR below LTHR. Questions:

(a) It is possible that my FTP is set too high? Could my high fast twitch composition provide misleading results on the ramp test?
(b) Or am I simply misunderstanding the purpose of the Galena session? Is the session supposed to lead to OBLA?

The reason that we at TrainerRoad have abandoned the LTHR metric is because it can be misleading and cast doubt into the minds of our users. There are many different reasons that Heart Rate can be higher or lower than expected, which include cardiac drift, caffiene consumption, nutrition, sleep, training stress levels, life stress levels, temperature, etc. These can change almost arbitrarily, and cause a user to doubt their training. We use power based training becasue it is always consistent. It should not be possible to significantly over-test using one of the FTP Testing methods, so unless you are having a difficult time completing Threshold work, your FTP should not be too high.

As for the intentions of Galena, it is a Sweet spot workout, which is essentially a workout that that is designed to keep you as close to Threshold as possible without accumulating lactate. But, due to the inconsistencies of HR, your HR may suggest that you are accumulating lactate when really, its just too hot in the room you're training in, or you are experiencing cardiac drift.

I hope I was able to address all of your questions sufficiently, let me know there was anything I missed!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Awesome - thanks Bryce. To clear up any confusion, my next race is a triathlon (with the hill). My track and field sprinting days ended 30 years ago - I provided that information only so you had an idea of my muscle composition (in case it was relevant with respect to the OBLA question).

All answers much appreciated; thank you! I will be adding three weeks extra build into my programme.
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for getting back to me! I hadn’t thought of doing traditional base - what would you suggest for keeping up the swim & run if following that plan? Would full distance base (but with the longer rides/runs trimmed) be a good option?
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Re: Trainer road.com [Scheherazade] [ In reply to ]
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Scheherazade wrote:
Thanks for getting back to me! I hadn’t thought of doing traditional base - what would you suggest for keeping up the swim & run if following that plan? Would full distance base (but with the longer rides/runs trimmed) be a good option?

Taking the Run/Swim portions from the Base Plan corresponding to your Target Distance is a great option :)

Cheers!

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Something I've been wondering for a while-a lot of the runs seem to be very light on at around only 1 hour including warm up and cool down, or 30 mins as part of a brick. Whats the reason for this? I'm doing the half program but worried I'm not putting in enough running Ks.
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Re: Trainer road.com [ In reply to ]
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Hi Sorry Im sure this has been answered like 100 times but I couldn't find it (bad with the search function I guess).

Im a newbie, 49 no real background in cycling and started tri training and trainerroad about 10 months ago. Just finished my first tri IMLP 70.3 with a 3 1/2 hr bike time (very hilly course). For training I did the low volume base, build and tri specific blocks and my ftp went from 150 to about 200 now. I have another 70.3 in June so roughly at year end I'll start the same low volume half distance tri plan. From now till then what do you recommend? I was thinking low volume sweet spot I and II but have no preference and am open to whatever is best Thanks!
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Re: Trainer road.com [dunno] [ In reply to ]
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dunno wrote:
Something I've been wondering for a while-a lot of the runs seem to be very light on at around only 1 hour including warm up and cool down, or 30 mins as part of a brick. Whats the reason for this? I'm doing the half program but worried I'm not putting in enough running Ks.

I have reached out to Coach Chad on this subject, I'll get back to you with his reasoning for the chosen running volume in the plans :)

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Trainer road.com [DimaP] [ In reply to ]
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DimaP wrote:
Hi Sorry Im sure this has been answered like 100 times but I couldn't find it (bad with the search function I guess).

Im a newbie, 49 no real background in cycling and started tri training and trainerroad about 10 months ago. Just finished my first tri IMLP 70.3 with a 3 1/2 hr bike time (very hilly course). For training I did the low volume base, build and tri specific blocks and my ftp went from 150 to about 200 now. I have another 70.3 in June so roughly at year end I'll start the same low volume half distance tri plan. From now till then what do you recommend? I was thinking low volume sweet spot I and II but have no preference and am open to whatever is best Thanks!

Hey Dima!

Congrats on your first Triathlon! It's so great to hear that we were able to help you make it happen :)

The plan that we recommend to athletes itrying to fill time before starting the Base/Build/Specialty progression is Traditional Base. Following this plan has a few benefits.

1. By doubling down on base training, you build a huge aerobic engine that will be a great benefit to you in your future training and on race day.
2. Traditonal Base is not terribly stressful, which helps prevent potential burnout from a long season.

I hope this helps give you some guidance on how to fill your time this fall! Let me know if you have any more questions for me :)

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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I've been using Trainer Road for the past 2 seasons and love it! It has helped me to complete my first 2 Ironmans and looking forward to using it for my 3rd! While I have been able to accomplish my goals, my FTP has pretty much been stagnant (maybe I just don't test well) - I feel stronger, but haven't improved much based on the tests. I struggle a lot with the supra FTP sessions when the intervals get to greater than 110% for more than 2 minutes - muscles just give out. They recover pretty quick but don't last long at those higher FTPs. What program should I target in the off-season to improve my strength? I see you recommend traditional base for aerobic, will that help strength wise as well or should I just target more supra FTP sessions? Thanks!

John
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Re: Trainer road.com [2pyrfam] [ In reply to ]
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I have a 70.3 in 5 weeks and can't run until there.
So I have to make most of my time biking and swiming.

I decide give TrainerRoad a try.

What kind of plan should I follow? I'm in good shape, FTP 3,75w/kg and I have time.
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Re: Trainer road.com [binhopires] [ In reply to ]
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binhopires wrote:
I have a 70.3 in 5 weeks and can't run until there.

So I have to make most of my time biking and swiming.

I decide give TrainerRoad a try.

What kind of plan should I follow? I'm in good shape, FTP 3,75w/kg and I have time.


Hey there!

Our plans are designed to be completed in order from Base-> Build -> Specialty over the course of 24 weeks, so choosing a 5 week training period leading up to a race is a bit of a challenge. That being said, I have a few ideas for how you can maximize your time.


I am going to make a few assumptions:
1. You have been training for more than 8 weeks thus far in preparation for this race.
2. You have been training consistently, ideally with a planned schedule each week.


If this is the case, then the best phase for you to jump in would be the Build Phase. Since you only have 5 weeks, you will complete Weeks 1-3 of the Build phase, before moving onto your taper. The taper will consist of Weeks 7-8 of the Specialty Phase. By performing a taper leading up to your race, you decrease your overall training volume, which allows your legs to freshen up, but you retain the intensity that allows you to keep that 'snap' that you need for race day.


Based on the limited time you have, this is the best course of action.


As for volume, I would recommend reading through the different plans and selecting the plan that most closely resembles your current training volume. Any abrupt changes in your training volume this close to your race can have undesirable effects on your fitness. So keep it as consistent as you can.


I hope that helps give you an idea of where to start, let me know if you have any more questions for me.

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Trainer road.com [2pyrfam] [ In reply to ]
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2pyrfam wrote:
I've been using Trainer Road for the past 2 seasons and love it! It has helped me to complete my first 2 Ironmans and looking forward to using it for my 3rd! While I have been able to accomplish my goals, my FTP has pretty much been stagnant (maybe I just don't test well) - I feel stronger, but haven't improved much based on the tests. I struggle a lot with the supra FTP sessions when the intervals get to greater than 110% for more than 2 minutes - muscles just give out. They recover pretty quick but don't last long at those higher FTPs. What program should I target in the off-season to improve my strength? I see you recommend traditional base for aerobic, will that help strength wise as well or should I just target more supra FTP sessions? Thanks!

John

Hey John!

I'm going to consult with a few coaches here at the office, I'll get back to you on this :)

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Bryce Lewis TR wrote:
2pyrfam wrote:
I've been using Trainer Road for the past 2 seasons and love it! It has helped me to complete my first 2 Ironmans and looking forward to using it for my 3rd! While I have been able to accomplish my goals, my FTP has pretty much been stagnant (maybe I just don't test well) - I feel stronger, but haven't improved much based on the tests. I struggle a lot with the supra FTP sessions when the intervals get to greater than 110% for more than 2 minutes - muscles just give out. They recover pretty quick but don't last long at those higher FTPs. What program should I target in the off-season to improve my strength? I see you recommend traditional base for aerobic, will that help strength wise as well or should I just target more supra FTP sessions? Thanks!

John


Hey John!

I'm going to consult with a few coaches here at the office, I'll get back to you on this :)

Any of the build plans have a healthy dose of vo2max workouts on the tuesday. general build is a great one to increase that medium 2-5min power. when you could it with those O/U's on the thursday its a gooder.
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Re: Trainer road.com [Bryce Lewis TR] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks Bryce - appreciate it!
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Re: Trainer road.com [RONDAL] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! I'll take a closer look at the general build plan.
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Re: Trainer road.com [2pyrfam] [ In reply to ]
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2pyrfam wrote:
I've been using Trainer Road for the past 2 seasons and love it! It has helped me to complete my first 2 Ironmans and looking forward to using it for my 3rd! While I have been able to accomplish my goals, my FTP has pretty much been stagnant (maybe I just don't test well) - I feel stronger, but haven't improved much based on the tests. I struggle a lot with the supra FTP sessions when the intervals get to greater than 110% for more than 2 minutes - muscles just give out. They recover pretty quick but don't last long at those higher FTPs. What program should I target in the off-season to improve my strength? I see you recommend traditional base for aerobic, will that help strength wise as well or should I just target more supra FTP sessions? Thanks!


John


Hey John!


It's great to hear that we've played a part in your development over the past few years!


Switching things up and developing a different energy system can certainly help you break through a fitness plateau, however, there are a few things you should consider before choosing that course of action.


Here are a few questions to ask yourself:


1. Do I need supra-threshold efforts for my events? Is focusing energy on this energy system specifically going to make me a faster rider on race day? It is important to remember that you can't be great at everything. The Ironman Plans themselves bring in the a bit of supra-threshold work to help increase your capacity, but it is not the primary focus. In the case ofan Ironman, you likely will not be performing efforts over 110% on race day, so that is something to keep in mind.


2. Am I training at a high enough volume? The most common reason for long-term stagnated FTP is lack of volume. If you are running a low or mid-volume plan, and have a relatively high FTP, you may need to increase your overall volume to see the results you desire.


3. Has my performance stagnated, or is it merely my FTP? There are more facets to your fitness than your mere FTP. For example, in Ironman racing, your time to exhaustion is extremely important. Do you feel less sore (and more ready to run) after following through the training plan? Do you feel stronger and more fit?


4. Am I recovering effectively? We all know that training is important, but we often overlook the importance of recovery. Training and recovery go hand in hand, where your recovery is the time where your body responds and adapts to training stress. If this time is cut short, then you will not reap the full potential of your training.




If you've considered these questions, and you still feel that switching up your energy systems is the best way to proceed, then the General Build Phase would be a good option for you. This has a wide range of workouts that will challenge your body through a variety of different types of stress, potentially helping you break through that fitness plateau.

Get Faster with TrainerRoad
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