TrainerRoad did a blog post on this a while back:

http://support.trainerroad.com/hc/en-us/articles/201794984-20-Minute-vs-8-Minute-FTP-Test


In the comment section, Coach Chad offered the following observations:


I recommend using whichever format helps you yield the highest output and therefore gives the best representation of your sustainable power, and these both give you basically the same thing in that respect, an FTP estimate.
If you want a fuller picture of your fitness though, the 20-Minute is arguably the better option in that you can kill that 5-minute effort prior to the 20-minute effort and get a good measure of your power at peak aerobic uptake/VO2 max. Then when you hit the 20-minute jobber, you'll have burned off a bit of your anaerobic contribution and get a fairer representation of your actual sustainable power.
But those details aside, this format will give you a measure of your "aerobic roof" (5-minute) and your FTP/"aerobic ceiling" (20-minute) allowing you to then track not only improvements in both but also how they relate.
For example, riders who can sustain upwards of 85% of their 5-minute power for an hour, i.e. their FTP is 85% (or higher) of their peak aerobic power might choose to target their VO2max while riders under 85% are better off chasing improvements in FTP and the duration they can sustain it with minimal fading.
To further the metaphor, once your aerobic ceiling/FTP is close to your aerobic roof/VO2max power, it's time to raise your roof via VO2max work. But if your ceiling is a ways from your roof, work on raising your ceiling via muscle endurance efforts.
Short answer: Both formats assess FTP but the 20-Minute Test can help you assess pVO2max as well as FTP so it's my preferred format when it comes to developing a greater understanding of your capabilities & limitations.

Thanks for the link!

Hi guys, I'm in week 4 of the long distance middle volume build. Everything is fine.

First question: Is it about time to replace the long workouts, e.g. Putuo or Longfellow, with the via best bike split converted race course?
If yes, should I do a light warm up, e.g. Dans for 30 Minute and do for the time of the planned workout my race course (IF of 0.75)?

Second question: I Need to cut two weeks short until my race. Should I do the full build phase and cut two weeks of the specialty phase? If yes, which weeks? The first two?

Kind regards, Dan

Hey Dan,

Glad to hear your training is moving along well!

Using your converted course is a good option in terms of dialing in your pacing practice, but it's likely quite different in nature than the scheduled workout. You'll have to decide whether you think you'll benefit more from increased training benefit of those workouts, or increased race-day readiness by dialing in better pacing practices. I think there's definitely a balance there. :)

Certainly, feel free to prime those pacing days with something like Dans. Any aerobic-recovery ride will do the trick for that.

When you trim down your Specialty, go for cutting Weeks 6 & 7. Then you'll use Week 8 to taper your training for your event.

Hope this helps Dan! Hope you have a great race out there!

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Many thanks, Nick!

Hi,

I'm two weeks away from my half IM. I have been on the base and build plans that have been working great but had a pretty specific question on the workouts for the next 14 days. I have been using GC to assess my races last season and noticed that for a half IM in which I did not perform as well as I could have, my stress balance was still negative (looking at the CTL/ATL and TSB graphs) the day of the race. I'm thinking this is one of the factors that cause my to be feel quite fatigued out of T1 (among others of course) and on the run.

Anyway, I planned out the rides over the next 2 weeks by manually imported the goal TSS numbers, and found that on race day my balance will be negative again. I am thinking of adjusting the workload so that I am slightly positive race morning; either by cutting some of the workout short, or dropping the goal power. What do you think? I am new to PMC and find it quite a valuable tool to gauge my fitness and stay motivated, but don't want to be a slave to the numbers either.

Colin

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

I started the 40K TT mid volume plan with an FTP test. I was happy to raise my FTP by 16 watts over the prior 9 weeks which including the Sustained Power Build (SPB) mid volume. Shortly after failing miserably on Old Rag +4 (made it through 1st set of 3 before my back gave out (legs were likely shortly behind)), I had an unplanned week off of all training due to the back and related issues.

Two questions:

1) How should I approach coming back after 1 week of zero activity? Spend a week doing some riding then just jump back into 40K TT at brand new FTP number? Taper the FTP number back some? If it matters at all, I actually had 1 week of minimal activity following completion of SPB due to travel/family followed by an unstructured week of random rides (about 5 hours) before a Saturday duathlon followed by my FTP test on Monday. I don't know if that is indicative of retaining my gains or if I actually could have tested much higher had I rolled right into the FTP test off of SPB and without a sprint duathlon 2 days prior. I felt like the duathlon served as a good "opener".

2) With regard to Old Rag +4 (and similar workouts), should I dial back the intensity or find an alternative workout with shorter duration at 115%? I listened to the latest podcast and think the latter was the suggestion, however you were focusing on even harder efforts (120%) which I would never even come close to completing. Even before my recent bump in FTP, I would never make it through all three sets of 3x3 minutes at 115% without multiple extra breaks - my trainer would grind me to a halt even with my HR still below where I hold it regularly for FTP tests and races.

Hey folks,

Just wondering is it possible to load outdoor rides into TrainerRoad?

Bottom line is it possible to upload a .GPX route from my Garmin into TrainerRoad?



I found an old thread a few years back:
http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...rainerRoad_P4852875/

Hi Colin,

Coach Chad I were able to discuss your question, and here's a snippet from that conversation: "Great tool, great idea/thought process, good question. Probably keep the intensity, shed some of the duration. The training adaptation is what we're after and that's hard to achieve when you cut the intensity of interval workouts, less so when you cut the duration of longer, steady-state work. But a positive TSB is desirable for the most majority of riders with the exception of riders who are riding off some fatigue over the opening of stage races where they plan to sit in and hide from the wind/work".

Hope this helps man! Have a great race and stay fast out at your Half!

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Not quite yet. The whole TrainerRoad gang is in 6th gear on the grind to get everyone this feature ASAP. We're super excited! :D

We've been doing internal testing ironing everything out.

We'll be sure to make some noise upon release. Stay tuned!

Thanks for hanging in there.

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

awesome thanks! For now I'll just load them onto my Wahoo ELEMNT not as fun but will suffice !

Yikes! I actually read that too quickly! :/

Let me clarify to make sure we're on the same page.

The feature we are working on now is the ability to bring outdoor workout data like TSS, elevation, kJ expenditure, etc. into TrainerRoad so you can track all your stats in one place.

The ability to bring a .gpx route into TrainerRoad to create a workout that replicates that outside ride is actually already possible. You can use the service bestbikesplit to convert your .gpx file into a MRC or ERG file, which can then be used to create a custom within our Custom Workout Creator (you can download the workout creator there if you don't have it).

Here's a rad video bestbikesplit put together that walks you through the entire process: Video

Once you have the MRC or ERG file, you can just drop it into the workout creator and you'll be prompted to name the workout. Pretty sweet!

Sorry for the miscommunication there! Hope I got it right this time ;)

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Thank you so much for the quick reply. This certainly does help, and I'll adjust the durations of my workouts accordingly to get back to +TSB by race morning.

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the world's still turning? >>>>>>> the world's still turning

Yes that answers my question thanks Nick!

Also sorry if I sound like a newb but what is the logic behind bringing in outside ride data into the TrainerRoad environment? is it to compare how our outdoors rides measure up against workouts done in TrainerRoad?

Excellent work so far, very impressive!

1. Since your week off was due to your back and other related issues, I believe the wisest approach would be to ease back into your training after the week off. Normally, a one week hiatus won't derail any meaningful progress if it's not a stressful circumstance that pulled you away. That doesn't really sound like the case here. :/ How you ease back into the training will be specific to how you're feeling. If this is something you're seeing a physician about, make sure they clear you as well. If you think this is something that should have a physician's eyes on, may want to consider that too.

No problems with your mild week, duathlon, and FTP. The fatigue you carried into the test is likely similar to the fatigue you'll carry between workouts. So no problem there either.

2. Primarily, we recommend you find alternative workouts with slightly shorter intervals. You can also create a custom workout as well (consider extending recovery intervals when doing so). This will ultimately aid in your transition of being able to handle the full duration at the prescribed intensities. Though, that's not to say you need to do the workouts at the exact intensity that is prescribed. There is a little wiggle room, but just know it should still be rigorous. What we can say is that the particular energy system that is intended to be maximized with VO2 max training, will likely be maximized at the prescribed intensities.

Really hope this helps! Have an awesome season!

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Get Faster with TrainerRoad

You're very welcome. :)

Stay fast out there!

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Thanks Nick. I am under a doctors care and will likely end up spending more time on the sideline than originally anticipated. Will ease my way back into it once I get the ok from the Dr. which could be a while just based on how hard it is to get into his office!

I will heed the advice on adjusting VO2 max efforts once I get back to that point.

Awesome, you're welcome!

Not exactly. ;) Having all of your cycling data in one training ecosystem allows athletes to truly have an idea of what amount of stress their inflicting on the body. Rather than comparing rides inside to outside to see which was "better", the real value comes from knowing how your outside workouts stack up against your indoor rides in terms of what training benefit you're getting from each and how that interfaces to paint a picture of your overall progress.

We understand that people like to ride outside, and we want to make sure athletes are easily able to integrate that data with the rest of their training that's done using our software.

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I am making my way through the 70.3 Build (Low Vol) right now and everything is going well; however, Week 6 calls for two weekend rides Beacon on Saturday and Gibraltar on Sunday. I unfortunately will be traveling that weekend and won't have access to a bike. How should I going into that week and coming out of it? My flight is on Friday (so I can do a Friday session) and my flight home is Sunday night, but I don't think I'll be able to climb onto the bike once I get home... I normally do my rides Wed-Fri-Sun... Should I just shift that week to Mon-Wed-Fri to get at least one of the rides in?

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@floathammerholdon | @partners_in_tri

Powermatch Tacx Flux and Stages PM: Samsung Tablet App

I can’t find the option to set up the power match.
Can you please help me out?
Kind regrads,
Dan

Hey Dan,

You'll want to go to the "Devices" tab of the app and select your electronic trainer, the Flux. Once there, you'll scroll down and find PowerMatch settings. This is where you'll select the options to implement PowerMatch functionality within the app.

If you have any issues at all, please shoot us an email at support@trainerroad.com and we'll get you all set up. :)

Thanks!

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Nice work so far through the half-distance plan!

Considering this is such a minor roadblock you're running into, I wouldn't be overly concerned with derailing any meaningful progress. If you're really set on getting all the workouts in, shift Beacon to Friday and bang out Gibraltar Monday. Since you follow a Wed/Fri/Sun schedule anyway, your performance on Elephants shouldn't be hampered by hitting Gibraltar on Monday. :)

One thing you should keep in mind is the fatigue you're carrying coming out of the work trip. If you come to Monday with Gibraltar planned and you don't feel up to snuff, consider forgoing the workout completely.

Hope this helps! Happy Training!

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hey nick,

what ever happened with those camps you were working on? tour of california is coming up and i've always wanted to do 8DC and wished you guys had an event like tour of sufferlandria for it

Hi,

After considering what we believe will help the most users get faster we came to the conclusion to prioritize updating many of our training plans as we were working on camps—so they are still a bit of a ways out. I can tell you the two that we've gotten the wheels turning on are a VO2max camp and Metabolic efficiency camp (Sweet Spot-like focus). They'll be really great to focus on limiters like this.

As for 8DC goes, the SF unfortunately no longer allows us to participate. Luckily, we still have the corresponding workouts in our library that you can totally follow along with. :)

Thanks for your patience with the camps! We're almost finished with the plans updates, then we'll dive back into camps full force.

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Hi Nick,

See below record of my shortoff+1 yesterday. I'm on week 3 of an Olympic Tri training plan.

I have two questions:

1. If you look at the power data it seems to jump around a lot (interval accuracy varied from 80% all the way down to 45%!!!). I would consider myself an experienced cyclists capable of maintaining cadence/power output to within +/- 5% of the target, so what would be causing these jumps? I'm using a Tacx Satori over Bluetooth to a Apple MBP. The laptop is about 3 feet from the trainer.
2. The HR data (see also second screenshot below) shows that I was well below my VO2 max zone, and never really hit anything close to my max. I felt my legs starting to tire on the 3rd rep of the first set but once I realized my HR was so low I bumped up the intensity setting to 110%. What could be causing this large gap in target power and target HR zone? MY Max HR would be 170-172bpm.

Thanks Nick!