Does anyone know the results of the Tour magazine's tests on tri-bikes conducted last year?
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Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [SteveMc]
[ In reply to ]
out of cervelo p3, cube aerium, cannondale ms2000, litespeed saber, principia tt2, qr private reserve and felt tt 700 the principia had the "best" rating.
regards,
frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
regards,
frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Bavarian_Frank]
[ In reply to ]
In which issue did they print the test results. Currently I have a test subscription to the German Tour Magazin.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [felix__w]
[ In reply to ]
the test was in June 2002.
regards,
Frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
regards,
Frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Bavarian_Frank]
[ In reply to ]
"the principia had the "best" rating."
how predictable.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
how predictable.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Was that "irony" Dan?
First, thanks for the reply Frank. Can you expand on "best" (i.e. Cervelo would come in best for aerodynamics). Did they just put weights on the frames and see which ones held up best?
Thanks,
SteveMc
First, thanks for the reply Frank. Can you expand on "best" (i.e. Cervelo would come in best for aerodynamics). Did they just put weights on the frames and see which ones held up best?
Thanks,
SteveMc
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Actually it was a test of complete assembled bikes with combined rating of both frame and components, which highly affected the scores.
TOUR liked the frames of both the Cervelo and QR. Cervelo was given good reveiw especially for not-being-soft-in-BB-due-to-aerotubing as per the german criteria of stiff bikes, the component choice and the idea behind the seattube and TRI-geometry. QR was also given good frame reveiw per geometry and BB/frontend stiffness - however it "failed" in the component rating as the pricetag of the complete bike was considered too steep compared to the relatively scarce components it came with ( cheap shimano range - possibly 105/Tiagra but i cannot remember precisely).
The Principia was nicely equiped with SyntaceSL/Stratos/Cosmic Carbon/Dura-Ace and very lightwieght TUNE components such as saddle/stem/krank/seatpost and was scoring big there. It was noted that the TT2 in the test did not have a "true Triathlon geometry" due to a 74degree seatpost.
The German CUBE tri-bike also being attacked for the geometry (74,5) as TOUR mentioned that it was very hard finding a comfortable position with the Profile tribars as the geometry was more of a road-type
So it was not all that bad !
TOUR liked the frames of both the Cervelo and QR. Cervelo was given good reveiw especially for not-being-soft-in-BB-due-to-aerotubing as per the german criteria of stiff bikes, the component choice and the idea behind the seattube and TRI-geometry. QR was also given good frame reveiw per geometry and BB/frontend stiffness - however it "failed" in the component rating as the pricetag of the complete bike was considered too steep compared to the relatively scarce components it came with ( cheap shimano range - possibly 105/Tiagra but i cannot remember precisely).
The Principia was nicely equiped with SyntaceSL/Stratos/Cosmic Carbon/Dura-Ace and very lightwieght TUNE components such as saddle/stem/krank/seatpost and was scoring big there. It was noted that the TT2 in the test did not have a "true Triathlon geometry" due to a 74degree seatpost.
The German CUBE tri-bike also being attacked for the geometry (74,5) as TOUR mentioned that it was very hard finding a comfortable position with the Profile tribars as the geometry was more of a road-type
So it was not all that bad !
Last edited by:
Carbonbike: Feb 10, 03 7:21
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [SteveMc]
[ In reply to ]
"Was that "irony" Dan?"
tour is very good when it comes to rating structural and mechanical performance. they're the best. ergonomics and aerodynamics i don't think they take seriousy enough, which is fine if you're just judging road race bikes. when principia/syntace/mavic gets the nod it tells me structure is their most important criteria. but this is all 10 year old technology that's getting the highest rating. i would choose a cervelo or a softride any day over a principia if triathlon was my interest.
perhaps it was the way their test was set up. but then i wonder if the test was set up correctly. in my mind, the euros are quite behind the U.S. in time trial specific technology right now, except for when it comes to the time trial bikes they make for their pro teams. but then it's usually not the bikes they sell to their customers. this is where the U.S. is so much better than the euro companies. from trek on down to the smaller builders, what the pros ride, the customers ride. same with U.S. component companies.
the problem with the germans, and this sort of intersects with with hellriegel thread, is that they're never really sure about what their (tri specific) equipment choices ought to be. i've known these german pro triathletes since they first started racing, and very few of them ride the same way, same position, same technology, for several years in a row. i think zack is the only one to have found a position and a technology that just flat-out works for him.
so with the pro athletes, and with tour magazine, i think their problem is that the jury is still out, and the jury is always out. they have a lot of info coming in to analyze, and they can't find a resonant set of values that govern a tri or time trial bike. they don't believe in anything for very long. they don't know what to believe.
so they're very good in what they know for sure, such as how to train (in the case of the athletes) and in how to test a structure to failure (in the case of the magazine) but when it comes to the virtues more difficult to measure, like what makes a bike ultimately fast, they sort of stratch their heads. therefore, when all else fails, they end up lending weight and credence to the stuff they know, like how does it shift? and will it break? hence principia beats cervelo, which is silliness to me (except if you take into consideration the issue of value, and perhaps a cervelo is prohibitively expensive in certain european countries).
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
tour is very good when it comes to rating structural and mechanical performance. they're the best. ergonomics and aerodynamics i don't think they take seriousy enough, which is fine if you're just judging road race bikes. when principia/syntace/mavic gets the nod it tells me structure is their most important criteria. but this is all 10 year old technology that's getting the highest rating. i would choose a cervelo or a softride any day over a principia if triathlon was my interest.
perhaps it was the way their test was set up. but then i wonder if the test was set up correctly. in my mind, the euros are quite behind the U.S. in time trial specific technology right now, except for when it comes to the time trial bikes they make for their pro teams. but then it's usually not the bikes they sell to their customers. this is where the U.S. is so much better than the euro companies. from trek on down to the smaller builders, what the pros ride, the customers ride. same with U.S. component companies.
the problem with the germans, and this sort of intersects with with hellriegel thread, is that they're never really sure about what their (tri specific) equipment choices ought to be. i've known these german pro triathletes since they first started racing, and very few of them ride the same way, same position, same technology, for several years in a row. i think zack is the only one to have found a position and a technology that just flat-out works for him.
so with the pro athletes, and with tour magazine, i think their problem is that the jury is still out, and the jury is always out. they have a lot of info coming in to analyze, and they can't find a resonant set of values that govern a tri or time trial bike. they don't believe in anything for very long. they don't know what to believe.
so they're very good in what they know for sure, such as how to train (in the case of the athletes) and in how to test a structure to failure (in the case of the magazine) but when it comes to the virtues more difficult to measure, like what makes a bike ultimately fast, they sort of stratch their heads. therefore, when all else fails, they end up lending weight and credence to the stuff they know, like how does it shift? and will it break? hence principia beats cervelo, which is silliness to me (except if you take into consideration the issue of value, and perhaps a cervelo is prohibitively expensive in certain european countries).
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Hey Dan
Itīs not like the euros havenīt been there! Principia made a very nice 26" 78 degree tri frame back in the early 90īs and lotīs of triathletes rode them. Now we continued our progressing and made a step forward, so maybe itīs you americans who are a bit old fashioned by sticking to babywheels and steep angles:-) . One could guess, that the athletes donīt want the oldfashioned bikes, and thatīs the reason why the frame builders donīt make them any more.
I donīt think youīre right when you say that we canīt buy pro-bikes here in Europe. Maybe thatīs true with a few brands, but many can be picked up right away.
Regards
A European
Itīs not like the euros havenīt been there! Principia made a very nice 26" 78 degree tri frame back in the early 90īs and lotīs of triathletes rode them. Now we continued our progressing and made a step forward, so maybe itīs you americans who are a bit old fashioned by sticking to babywheels and steep angles:-) . One could guess, that the athletes donīt want the oldfashioned bikes, and thatīs the reason why the frame builders donīt make them any more.
I donīt think youīre right when you say that we canīt buy pro-bikes here in Europe. Maybe thatīs true with a few brands, but many can be picked up right away.
Regards
A European
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
You are very correct and right on spot in your arguments against the germans. They do focuse entirely on structural performance and mechanics. A little more "up-north" we do not rate ie. BB stifffness as much as they do in Germany - We do buy aero stuff ( just bought a BP Stealth Carbon Blade seatpost myself), but more for the looks than the aeroadvantage.
As for the "test" - i would not call it a TOUR test as such like the full frame test they do once a year with engineering test for stiffness, etc. it was more like a reveiw of value-for-money as you somewhat describe it. They did individually rate the frames seperately, unfortunately i cannot remember the excact score, but i am not sure that the Principia won the pure frame rating over Cervelo, the score was very close for the frames.
A Cervelo PK3 costs approx. 30% more than a Principia TT2 which could be a factor.
A bike distributer told me that i is nearly impossible to sell Principias's in Denmark right now. Possibly because the road/tri scene is flooded with them. The same reason that i choose something different myself.
By accident i clicked in the Yaqui website - that Yaqui D/L looks excactly like the bike we need over here ! looks like a stunning bike and with the excact same equipment setup i would prefer.
As for the "test" - i would not call it a TOUR test as such like the full frame test they do once a year with engineering test for stiffness, etc. it was more like a reveiw of value-for-money as you somewhat describe it. They did individually rate the frames seperately, unfortunately i cannot remember the excact score, but i am not sure that the Principia won the pure frame rating over Cervelo, the score was very close for the frames.
A Cervelo PK3 costs approx. 30% more than a Principia TT2 which could be a factor.
A bike distributer told me that i is nearly impossible to sell Principias's in Denmark right now. Possibly because the road/tri scene is flooded with them. The same reason that i choose something different myself.
By accident i clicked in the Yaqui website - that Yaqui D/L looks excactly like the bike we need over here ! looks like a stunning bike and with the excact same equipment setup i would prefer.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [kreutzer]
[ In reply to ]
I think Dan might be referring to true aerotubing and horizontal rear dropouts to ensure that a rear tire cutout functions properly. The Cube (Lothar Leder rides 'em) has an aero drown tube with no fancy seat tube; while the Principia TT 28 (and a nice carbon derivative, see www.rbsbikes.co.uk under isaac) has traditional vertical ones ('tho I imagine that they could be replaced for horizontal) but rather dubious aero tubing.
I do think Dan was being rather harsh on Principia though, as I used to ride their 650 tribike and hired one of their road bikes for a week. Both frames were very well made and served their respective purposes.
SteveMc
I do think Dan was being rather harsh on Principia though, as I used to ride their 650 tribike and hired one of their road bikes for a week. Both frames were very well made and served their respective purposes.
SteveMc
A couple of thoughts
[ In reply to ]
1) Gerard pointed out the expense of importing a bike into Europe with taxes and shipping etc etc. I assume that European manufacturers face similar battles coming in to the states. I know from our business that customs can be a hurdle.
2) It is quite possible that there is no correct anwer to this. I was talking to a german that lives here last week and he pointed out that in Europe where 5+ weeks vacation per year is the norm that taking time off early in the year to put in big weeks on the bike is quite feasible (sp?). If Americans had the same amount of time, would there be such an overwhelming emphasis on aerodynamics?
Just a thought.
2) It is quite possible that there is no correct anwer to this. I was talking to a german that lives here last week and he pointed out that in Europe where 5+ weeks vacation per year is the norm that taking time off early in the year to put in big weeks on the bike is quite feasible (sp?). If Americans had the same amount of time, would there be such an overwhelming emphasis on aerodynamics?
Just a thought.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [kreutzer]
[ In reply to ]
it's not angles and whees i'm thinking of. euros were ahead of americans when it came to "baby wheels." remember when aerodynamics were a consideration to euros? the 650c wheel was a standard on the front of all time trial bikes going back decades. it's just that euros seem to have forgotten about aerodynamics, except for perhaps the english, where time trialing is a bigger sport.
that's more what i'm thinking about. anybody can make a frame steep or shallow. making that steep or shallow frame truly aerodynamic is what i'm saying the euros don't much care about, except for look, pinarello, etc., with their frames that have never been offered for sale.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
that's more what i'm thinking about. anybody can make a frame steep or shallow. making that steep or shallow frame truly aerodynamic is what i'm saying the euros don't much care about, except for look, pinarello, etc., with their frames that have never been offered for sale.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
TOUR testing
[ In reply to ]
First off, I am a huge fan of Tour's test procedures. Measuring bb and torsional stiffness instead of having some second-rate cyclist turned writer drivel about how stiff the bike feels when he pushes the bb from the side with his foot is quite an improvement.
As for the stiffness of the P3, I think they had the "pretty good stiffness for aero tubes" remark about the torsional stiffness, not the bb stiffness (where it tested the highest of any bike in the test). There were two problems we encountered with the test. First of all they told everybody a maximum price for the bike, and then Principia sent a bike that was a few thousand euros more than allowed. All we could do is send a pair of Zipps, but had we known we would have done more. The whole mix of testing frames but then also looking at the parts was a bit strange, and there price comparisons between frames and bikes were also a bit messed up as a result.
The other problem was that there were no points for aerodynamics, so obviously that hurt us. But overall I was pretty happy, it has really helped our German sales since nobody expected us to beat the Principia and Cannondale in bb stiffness, and when you look at where the points are scored (for example Principia's anodized finished always scores higher with Tour than paint of powder) it was all fairly positive.
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
As for the stiffness of the P3, I think they had the "pretty good stiffness for aero tubes" remark about the torsional stiffness, not the bb stiffness (where it tested the highest of any bike in the test). There were two problems we encountered with the test. First of all they told everybody a maximum price for the bike, and then Principia sent a bike that was a few thousand euros more than allowed. All we could do is send a pair of Zipps, but had we known we would have done more. The whole mix of testing frames but then also looking at the parts was a bit strange, and there price comparisons between frames and bikes were also a bit messed up as a result.
The other problem was that there were no points for aerodynamics, so obviously that hurt us. But overall I was pretty happy, it has really helped our German sales since nobody expected us to beat the Principia and Cannondale in bb stiffness, and when you look at where the points are scored (for example Principia's anodized finished always scores higher with Tour than paint of powder) it was all fairly positive.
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
Hmmm....Dan, I think you might be romantizing the UK time trial scene. The days of Boardman and Obree revolutionizing the way bikes are designed is over. The top 25 mile UK time trialist rides a custom steel frame, it might have semi-aero tubing but nothing fancy (well his aerobars are). The next down rides a Giant. However, all the top guys ride in extremely low positions and they can maintain it for 100miles. I might be wrong here but the emphasis is on very focused interval and power training for these guys. According to Boardman's coach, the Lotus frame got them 1sec per kilo in the 4kilo persuit. Boardman generated 440+ watts when he smashed the hour record, a lot lower than what Indurain could do but his position was exceptional.
Put it another way, you don't see many Cervelos out on a UK time trial, what you do see is lots of custom steel bikes ridden by people who know how to time trial.
SteveMc
Put it another way, you don't see many Cervelos out on a UK time trial, what you do see is lots of custom steel bikes ridden by people who know how to time trial.
SteveMc
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [SteveMc]
[ In reply to ]
[reply]
First, thanks for the reply Frank. Can you expand on "best" (i.e. Cervelo would come in best for aerodynamics). Did they just put weights on the frames and see which ones held up best?
Thanks,
SteveMc [/reply]
You're welcome. "Best" doesn't say that the Principia is the best triathlon bike as far as geometry is concerned or that it will give you the best ride. It is only best as far as workmanship, best overall value or used components are rated. Most of the measured parameters have already been written in this thread so I won't repeat them.
BTW, the Cube bike is an US build bike, although Cube is a German company they say the bike is built in the US.
Cervelo is very difficult to get here in Germany. I also have never seen a Litespeed in a race I took part in (Exception: I was passed from Camereon Brown on his Blade last summer doing Roth). There are a few old QR now and then and so most bikes ridden here are Cube and Principia ... so it all comes down to these two reigning brands.
regards,
Frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
First, thanks for the reply Frank. Can you expand on "best" (i.e. Cervelo would come in best for aerodynamics). Did they just put weights on the frames and see which ones held up best?
Thanks,
SteveMc [/reply]
You're welcome. "Best" doesn't say that the Principia is the best triathlon bike as far as geometry is concerned or that it will give you the best ride. It is only best as far as workmanship, best overall value or used components are rated. Most of the measured parameters have already been written in this thread so I won't repeat them.
BTW, the Cube bike is an US build bike, although Cube is a German company they say the bike is built in the US.
Cervelo is very difficult to get here in Germany. I also have never seen a Litespeed in a race I took part in (Exception: I was passed from Camereon Brown on his Blade last summer doing Roth). There are a few old QR now and then and so most bikes ridden here are Cube and Principia ... so it all comes down to these two reigning brands.
regards,
Frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Bavarian_Frank]
[ In reply to ]
"BTW, the Cube bike is an US build bike, although Cube is a German company they say the bike is built in the US."
are you sure about this? i know that STORCK is a german brand built in the U.S., but unless it's changed fairly recently CUBE is a german brand built in taiwan.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
are you sure about this? i know that STORCK is a german brand built in the U.S., but unless it's changed fairly recently CUBE is a german brand built in taiwan.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
It says so on their website http://www.cube-bikes.de/index2.html "full specs" :
"made in USA".
But not otherwise specified. It is listed under all road/tribikes
It was also mentioned in the TOUR review.
"made in USA".
But not otherwise specified. It is listed under all road/tribikes
It was also mentioned in the TOUR review.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
"the principia had the "best" rating."
how predictable.
Well, Principia is danish, the Tour is a german magazine, according to your logic, Cube should have won.
It's interesting, that the Tour has rated the Klein Quatum Pro as the best road bike overall for many years in row. Among Carbon bikes, the Trek 5000 series still rules according to their results.
Just recently they visited Trek and Canondale and wrote and puplished a detailed and very positive review of their manufacturing operations.
They are very scientific in their approach and certainly do not favor euro bikes.
AR from Chicago
how predictable.
Well, Principia is danish, the Tour is a german magazine, according to your logic, Cube should have won.
It's interesting, that the Tour has rated the Klein Quatum Pro as the best road bike overall for many years in row. Among Carbon bikes, the Trek 5000 series still rules according to their results.
Just recently they visited Trek and Canondale and wrote and puplished a detailed and very positive review of their manufacturing operations.
They are very scientific in their approach and certainly do not favor euro bikes.
AR from Chicago
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Redemann]
[ In reply to ]
"Well, Principia is danish, the Tour is a german magazine, according to your logic, Cube should have won."
the factory is in denmark, but the company is german in every visible way, that is, in every way in which marketing counts. principia's german distributors have pretty-much shaped that company's persona since its beginning. about 15 years ago musing was the darling of german bike companies, and it crashed in a terrific corporate meltdown. principia's german distributor brought this danish company in to fill the void, which is did very successfully.
principia has historically sold a lot more bikes in germany than it did in its own country. further, principia is the KIND of bike that tour magazine would prefer, in that it is rock solidly built.
so i'm not saying that tour ought to be expected to prefer a brand that is home-grown, but that a brand like principia represents everything that tour likes in a bike or bike product.
cube, on the other hand, is the german bike that is built everywhere, it seems, except germany. it is news to me that it is made in the U.S. cube showed up in the early '90s offering fantastic values. i frankly haven't kept track of what it's been up to lately. others are obviously much more up with it than i. storck was built by kinesis' portland factory, perhaps cube is built there too, or maybe at anodizing inc. i don't know. maybe i'll find out.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
the factory is in denmark, but the company is german in every visible way, that is, in every way in which marketing counts. principia's german distributors have pretty-much shaped that company's persona since its beginning. about 15 years ago musing was the darling of german bike companies, and it crashed in a terrific corporate meltdown. principia's german distributor brought this danish company in to fill the void, which is did very successfully.
principia has historically sold a lot more bikes in germany than it did in its own country. further, principia is the KIND of bike that tour magazine would prefer, in that it is rock solidly built.
so i'm not saying that tour ought to be expected to prefer a brand that is home-grown, but that a brand like principia represents everything that tour likes in a bike or bike product.
cube, on the other hand, is the german bike that is built everywhere, it seems, except germany. it is news to me that it is made in the U.S. cube showed up in the early '90s offering fantastic values. i frankly haven't kept track of what it's been up to lately. others are obviously much more up with it than i. storck was built by kinesis' portland factory, perhaps cube is built there too, or maybe at anodizing inc. i don't know. maybe i'll find out.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
[reply]
"BTW, the Cube bike is an US build bike, although Cube is a German company they say the bike is built in the US."
are you sure about this? i know that STORCK is a german brand built in the U.S., but unless it's changed fairly recently CUBE is a german brand built in taiwan. [/reply]
I had a look at the 2003 model bike last weekend and it has a sticker "made in the usa" on its frame. Her is the url http://www.cube-bikes.de/bikes/renn/aerium_team_3.html where it also says "made in the usa".
regards,
Frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
"BTW, the Cube bike is an US build bike, although Cube is a German company they say the bike is built in the US."
are you sure about this? i know that STORCK is a german brand built in the U.S., but unless it's changed fairly recently CUBE is a german brand built in taiwan. [/reply]
I had a look at the 2003 model bike last weekend and it has a sticker "made in the usa" on its frame. Her is the url http://www.cube-bikes.de/bikes/renn/aerium_team_3.html where it also says "made in the usa".
regards,
Frank
I've seen things you people wouldn't believe. Attack ships on fire off the shoulder of Orion. I watched C-beams glitter in the dark near the Tannhauser Gate. All those moments will be lost in time like tears in rain.
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Slowman]
[ In reply to ]
further, principia is the KIND of bike that tour magazine would prefer, in that it is rock solidly built.
Dan, what's wrong with a rock solid bike as long as it is light and comfy? The TT2 was about a 100gr lighter than the P3. However the P3 was better in Powertransfer (BB stiffness) but lost out in STW (stiffness to weight ratio - headtube I guess) which according to the test is not a big deal with the P3 since it is a TT bike and won't be used much on steep moutain decents. Overall the P3 did get an excellent review for innovation and aerodynamics.
By the way the Cannondale R2000 was up there with the TT2 for a lot less $$$
I would love to get my hands on P3 but I promised my wife no new bikes this year - so I'll stay with my TT28
Dan, what's wrong with a rock solid bike as long as it is light and comfy? The TT2 was about a 100gr lighter than the P3. However the P3 was better in Powertransfer (BB stiffness) but lost out in STW (stiffness to weight ratio - headtube I guess) which according to the test is not a big deal with the P3 since it is a TT bike and won't be used much on steep moutain decents. Overall the P3 did get an excellent review for innovation and aerodynamics.
By the way the Cannondale R2000 was up there with the TT2 for a lot less $$$
I would love to get my hands on P3 but I promised my wife no new bikes this year - so I'll stay with my TT28
Re: Tour Magazin Review of Tri-bikes [Redemann]
[ In reply to ]
It should be noted though that Tour scores points for the weight of the frame and fork combined. And although all manufacturers were told to send standard bikes, Principia sent a custom-made bike with all custom parts, in fact it says in the test you can't actually buy this particular bike. So if we had replaced the standard Chord fork (very good aerodynamically but there are no points for that) with say a Coliumbus Muscle or right now a Wolf fork, all of a sudden we would have dropped 150 grams and scored another point or two.
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
Gerard Vroomen
3T.bike
OPEN cycle
"Dan, what's wrong with a rock solid bike as long as it is light and comfy?"
nothing's wrong with that. cosmetics are important too. but cosmetics are not the MOST important (to me) criterion. if tour is majoring in the majors, great. but when it's majoring in the minors then there's a problem. not that comfort and strength are minor issues, but they're not the difficult virtues for a bike maker to achieve.
my question is this: is tour magazine basically saying that the criteria for the optimal tri bike are the same, and in the same order, as they are for a road race bike? if so, then tour and i are not in agreement as to what makes a tri bike a good value.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
nothing's wrong with that. cosmetics are important too. but cosmetics are not the MOST important (to me) criterion. if tour is majoring in the majors, great. but when it's majoring in the minors then there's a problem. not that comfort and strength are minor issues, but they're not the difficult virtues for a bike maker to achieve.
my question is this: is tour magazine basically saying that the criteria for the optimal tri bike are the same, and in the same order, as they are for a road race bike? if so, then tour and i are not in agreement as to what makes a tri bike a good value.
Dan Empfield
aka Slowman