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Tour Down Under & disc brakes
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Just looking at DC Rainmaker's tech review and it looks like only 2 out of 19 teams are using disc brakes (assuming that a team would adopt it for every member at the same time). Teams adopting: Quick-Step and Trek-Segafredo

Does this surprise you? I'm in the market for a new bike and would have expected to see much greater buy-in from the pros given the normal model where pro level tech drips down to average consumers. But it seems like it's just the regular consumers buying disc brakes. Why aren't bike manufacturers pushing disc brakes on the pros to help them sell the product to us normal guys?
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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The UCI hasn't approved it yet so a lot of teams are still hesitant to invest in it. It will be UCI approved. More and more bikes are coming out with disc brakes.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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Ralph20 wrote:
Why aren't bike manufacturers pushing disc brakes on the pros to help them sell the product to us normal guys?

Wow. Just wow.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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Ralph20 wrote:
Why aren't bike manufacturers pushing disc brakes on the pros to help them sell the product to us normal guys?

I have been working on a project associated to three pro tour teams and they are all working with manufacturers and exploring disc brakes.It doesn't happen overnight but it's happening.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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The bike companies are pushing it down but it's my understanding it's the pro cyclists themselves that don't want them.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
The bike companies are pushing it down but it's my understanding it's the pro cyclists themselves that don't want them.

I'm in the camp of "why do I need them, what I have works fine." I'm guessing a lot of pros are the same way....they want to go faster, not stop!
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [T3_Beer] [ In reply to ]
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T3_Beer wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
The bike companies are pushing it down but it's my understanding it's the pro cyclists themselves that don't want them.


I'm in the camp of "why do I need them, what I have works fine." I'm guessing a lot of pros are the same way....they want to go faster, not stop!

They actually like the idea of being able to stop fast when needed, especially in the rain. Some guys even want them on the TT bikes.

I personally do not feel the need for them, but I suspect they are inevitable.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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I think folks have this misconception that disc brakes are going to completely replace rim brakes. The two are going to co-exist for the foreseeable future. Even if/when UCI ends this disc brake trial period and approves them completely, you are still going to see rim brakes in the field. But you will also see disc brakes. Whether teams run rim brakes or disc brakes is going vastly depend on the team, bike sponsor, wheel sponsor, rider preference, and weather forecast/course profile for the days stage. If the weather calls for rain and its a hilly stage with fast descending, you will likely see more disc brakes on that stage. If its a sunny day and flat stage, you will likely see more rim brakes in the field.

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Last edited by: stevej: Jan 16, 18 13:14
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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Quote:
it looks like only 2 out of 19 teams are using disc brakes

This actually does surprise me. I thought a lot more teams would be starting the pro tour season on discs. I guess it is a bit of a risk relying on neutral support, who may not have you a wheel since a standard is still somewhat up in the air.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
The bike companies are pushing it down but it's my understanding it's the pro cyclists themselves that don't want them.

I don't think that's universal. They probably fall on both sides, like on any controversial topic. Though it's hard to get honest answers since pros in general are very reluctant to speak against something their sponsor is promoting. I do know one pro who adores disc brakes (n=1)
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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The other confounding factor into reading into everything is that a number of the teams are not riding their 2018 fleets... In numerous cases, the bikes being ridden in TDU are older bikes, or simply their non-disc models, as riders are still getting used to riding the disc models in training... so while it's worth noting that only two teams have their disc bike fleets for TDU, and while we know that there are growing pains in the pro peloton accepting disc brakes, we can't read too much into one early season race, held on a different continent and land mass from the vast majority of the world tour events... In european races, you may have a rider or two riding discs, and the others on rim brake options, but when you need to ship a service course over to Australia, you want everyone to be running one or the other so that you minimize the numbers of wheels and parts that need to be shipped, to control costs...
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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I'd happily switch to a disc brake bike. I bought the new R5 last year, and really considered getting the disc brake version. The problem I have (which my guess is a similar problem for a lot of people) is that I've got three wheelsets for my road bike (training, 50mm, and 80mm) and my wife also rides/races, so she has a training set and a 50mm carbon set. It's nice being able to swap wheels between bikes, so I'd not only have to buy her a new bike, but also three new carbon wheelsets. So that being said, it will be a while before I'm on disc.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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In short, and to paraphrase an old saying - "It's the wheels, stupid."

The two teams at the TDU riding disc brake bikes are sponsored by Trek and Specialized, respectively.
The wheel sponsors for these teams?
Trek (Bontrager) and Specialized (Roval.)

Switching to disc brakes doesn't just mean you need all new bikes, that's the easy part. It means you need all new wheels. Not just this season's allotment of wheels, but all new wheels entirely. All the wheels you've got in the service course from previous seasons are now no good, too. That's more of an ask than your existing wheel sponsors signed up for, and in some cases it's more than they can even come up with if they wanted to.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
Shambolic wrote:
The bike companies are pushing it down but it's my understanding it's the pro cyclists themselves that don't want them.


I don't think that's universal. They probably fall on both sides, like on any controversial topic. Though it's hard to get honest answers since pros in general are very reluctant to speak against something their sponsor is promoting. I do know one pro who adores disc brakes (n=1)

I'm sure it isn't universal but if the big names declared they wanted to be riding disc brakes teams, their less obliging team mates, spares vehicles and even a rotor size standard would be following suit as the cycling industry is driving this. It's funny how at pre season and races each rider seems to have a disc model there that gets photographed and featured on cycling web sites to appease the sponsors but you never see them ridden. Coming from the European based pros that return to train here it is a majority that don't want the change. I have no doubt it is coming but like the peloton I am more than happy with rim brakes and have no intention of buying a bike with discs besides a new cx bike maybe.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Just fwiw, there is a defacto disc rotor size standard. Neutral support is carrying 160. Teams can run whatever they want, but...

As an aside, I had to come up with some 140 wheels to give to Shimano neutral support at Kona this year for this very reason. They were actually kinda' surprised that word hadn't filtered out on this to the tri folk.

Tech writer/support on this here site. FIST school instructor and certified bike fitter. Formerly at Diamondback Bikes, LeMond Fitness, FSA, TiCycles, etc.
Coaching and bike fit - http://source-e.net/ Cyclocross blog - https://crosssports.net/ BJJ instruction - https://ballardbjj.com/
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [ttusomeone] [ In reply to ]
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ttusomeone wrote:
The problem I have (which my guess is a similar problem for a lot of people) is that I've got three wheelsets for my road bike (training, 50mm, and 80mm) and my wife also rides/races, so she has a training set and a 50mm carbon set.
Depending on how exotic the wheels are it could be fairly straightforward to buy three disc brake hubsets, and get your friendly local wheelbuilder to re-hub the wheels. It would still be a nontrivial investment but far less than completely replacing your wheel inventory.

Less is more.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Big Endian] [ In reply to ]
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Good point - I hadn't thought about that option. In fact, all three wheelsets were built by a local wheel builder (Martindale). Makes it a more realistic option when it comes time to replace my current bike (which will be a couple years - at least that's what I told my wife when I bought it...).
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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I thought disc brakes on road bikes were pretty silly until I raced a crit in the rain with carbon wheels and rim brakes. The pucker factor involved with tapping brakes and getting no response def means my next bike will have disc brakes; or back to wheels with an aluminum brake track.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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It's the first race of the season and far away from the European service courses, and the teams have race-provided cars. So makes trying out new things much more difficult if you don't have access to your big spares bus and custom roof racks. Wait until the classics and many more will be on disc-equipped bikes.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [gfzyriek] [ In reply to ]
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gfzyriek wrote:
I thought disc brakes on road bikes were pretty silly until I raced a crit in the rain with carbon wheels and rim brakes. The pucker factor involved with tapping brakes and getting no response def means my next bike will have disc brakes; or back to wheels with an aluminum brake track.

exact reason I had sold all my carbon rim'd wheels...they suck at braking if someone spits on your wheel so I'm using all aluminum rim wheels now.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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stevej wrote:
I think folks have this misconception that disc brakes are going to completely replace rim brakes. The two are going to co-exist for the foreseeable future. Even if/when UCI ends this disc brake trial period and approves them completely, you are still going to see rim brakes in the field. But you will also see disc brakes. Whether teams run rim brakes or disc brakes is going vastly depend on the team, bike sponsor, wheel sponsor, rider preference, and weather forecast/course profile for the days stage. If the weather calls for rain and its a hilly stage with fast descending, you will likely see more disc brakes on that stage. If its a sunny day and flat stage, you will likely see more rim brakes in the field.

I disagree to a certain extent, I think some markets are going to take a bit longer than others to adopt it (I mean more worldwide than in the US) but the push to move everything towards disc is on. They'll have to coexist for the foreseeable future, this is true, there's not a way to just flip a switch and transition everyone who rides road/tri to them.

Even in cyclocross, where most people would say disc brakes are a no-brainer, you still see rim brake bikes here and there. Some companies are still making them!

In terms of innovation moving forward in road and Tri, I would imagine most of the effort and resources are going towards disc brake bikes. My prediction is that there will be 0 new bikes, in triathlon (that aren't made so a pro road team can TT on them), that aren't disc brake.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [AndresLD] [ In reply to ]
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AndresLD wrote:
stevej wrote:
I think folks have this misconception that disc brakes are going to completely replace rim brakes. The two are going to co-exist for the foreseeable future. Even if/when UCI ends this disc brake trial period and approves them completely, you are still going to see rim brakes in the field. But you will also see disc brakes. Whether teams run rim brakes or disc brakes is going vastly depend on the team, bike sponsor, wheel sponsor, rider preference, and weather forecast/course profile for the days stage. If the weather calls for rain and its a hilly stage with fast descending, you will likely see more disc brakes on that stage. If its a sunny day and flat stage, you will likely see more rim brakes in the field.

I disagree to a certain extent, I think some markets are going to take a bit longer than others to adopt it (I mean more worldwide than in the US) but the push to move everything towards disc is on. They'll have to coexist for the foreseeable future, this is true, there's not a way to just flip a switch and transition everyone who rides road/tri to them.

Even in cyclocross, where most people would say disc brakes are a no-brainer, you still see rim brake bikes here and there. Some companies are still making them!

In terms of innovation moving forward in road and Tri, I would imagine most of the effort and resources are going towards disc brake bikes. My prediction is that there will be 0 new bikes, in triathlon (that aren't made so a pro road team can TT on them), that aren't disc brake.

I absolutely agree that the majority of the effort and resources will be on disc brake bikes. We are essentially peaked out with rim brake bikes (peak aero) so it makes complete sense to try to develop disc brake bikes. All the research, testing, studies, etc will be on disc brakes. But that doesn't mean rim brake bikes and rim brake wheels are going to stopped being manufactured. We will still be able to buy a brand new rim brake "super bike" from the mfg in 5-10 years. The research and development on rim brakes is fading away (it kind of already has) but that doesn't mean you won't be able to still buy them.

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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [stevej] [ In reply to ]
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If you can buy a rim brake bike 5 years from now, I doubt it will come from the big names. I just don't see companies putting a lot of effort into rim brakes.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Jan 17, 18 9:33
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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A win (Masters Men), 2nd place (Elite Men) and an 8th (Elite Men) at the US CX Nationals this weekend for Cantilever brakes.

It's only impossible if you stop to think about it.
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Re: Tour Down Under & disc brakes [Ralph20] [ In reply to ]
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When disc brake bikes first were introduced to the pro tour, it only took a few months for them to temporarily outlaw them. There's no promises it won't happen again if there is another incident. Unless of course I missed something where the UCI made a promise that disc brake bikes will be allowed for the entire season no matter what happens.

So given the nature of pro cycling teams having very little margins and scrounging for sponsorship money, I don't think a lot of teams can afford to have both rim and disc brake bikes (and wheels) in their stable. Most teams have to choose one or the other, and ride the whole season that way. From a risk perspective, I think the teams that had a disc option asked their bike sponsor..."if we adopt the disc bikes, and the UCI bans them in the middle of 2018...will you give us an entire fleet of rim brake bikes immediately as part of our sponsorship?" Same question to the wheel sponsors. I'm guessing here, but for some teams, the answer from the sponsors might have been no.
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