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Too Much Exercise- Not Good News
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ZenRT
Jun 5, 12 16:19
Post #1 of 78
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Too Much Exercise- Not Good News
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The latest- released today from the Mayo Clinic.
http://cardionutrition.files.wordpress.com/...n-be-a-bad-thing.pdf
bombagrande
Jun 5, 12 19:29
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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No responses? I tried playing devil's advocate too on my local Ironman Facebook group. Same result, no responses. I just want to know everyone's thoughts on this since so many Slowtwitchers are involved in these "extreme" activities.
ZenRT
Jun 5, 12 19:37
Post #3 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [bombagrande]
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All I can say, both as a doctor and as an endurance athlete, is that this emerging evidence should be taken very seriously by many in the Slowtwitch crowd.
Dreadnought
Jun 5, 12 19:42
Post #4 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [bombagrande]
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bombagrande wrote:
No responses? I tried playing devil's advocate too on my local Ironman Facebook group. Same result, no responses. I just want to know everyone's thoughts on this since so many Slowtwitchers are involved in these "extreme" activities.
from the abstract
Quote:
...
may
lead to patchy myocardial fibrosis, particularly in the atria, interventricular septum, and right ventricle, creating a substrate for atrial and ventricular arrhythmias. Additionally, long-term excessive sustained exercise
may
be associated with coronary artery calcification, diastolic dysfunction, and large-artery wall stiffening. However,
this concept is still hypothetical
and there is
some inconsistency
in the reported findings. Furthermore,
lifelong vigorous exercisers generally have low mortality rates
and excellent functional capacity. Notwithstanding, the
hypothesis
that long-term excessive endurance exercise
may
induce adverse CV remodeling
warrants further investigation
to identify at-risk individuals and formulate physical fitness regimens for conferring optimal CV health and longevity....
Key words are "may", "hypothetical", "inconsistency"
Doesn't sound like a convincing indictment, but I agree that further investigation is warranted
bombagrande
Jun 5, 12 19:50
Post #5 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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Here is the accompanying video to the article:
http://medicalxpress.com/...-excessive-good.html
Fish2587
Jun 5, 12 20:23
Post #6 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [bombagrande]
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Well all I know is that there are countless endurance athletes that live long, healthy lives; that this is sad because one article like this will just give one more excuse for the obese to continue rotting away on the couch with their children; and that I much rather be moving daily than also rotting away on said couch. I'll take my chances :)
Experior
Jun 5, 12 20:28
Post #7 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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What's so great about living as long as possible?
----
Michael
windschatten
Jun 5, 12 20:40
Post #8 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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Doesn't need to be all or nothing.
A lot of people don't get that.
LoriT
Jun 5, 12 20:43
Post #9 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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I've worked 'hard' to overcome limitations due to CVID--and I've had to learn that too much exercise can be detrimental if I don't have a host of other factors all in line. I have a lower bar for error, let's just say. Nutrition, sleep, stress, etc. all play a huge factor on how much exercise AND intensity I can handle--and based on the basic science, I can only extrapolate this would be true for even the healthiest, but to a lesser degree. I don't 'LIKE' the fact that too much exercise can be harmful, but I have found it to be personally true. I would however, LIKE to do another long distance tri, as stubborn minded as I may be. From personal experience, I do believe that state of mind & lifestyle factors play a HUGE factor in health & longevity regardless of endurance activities etc.
Bone Idol
Jun 5, 12 21:04
Post #10 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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ZenRT wrote:
All I can say, both as a doctor and as an endurance athlete, is that this emerging evidence should be taken very seriously by many in the Slowtwitch crowd.
I'm sure. May I ask, though, wearing your doctor's hat,
how
we should take it seriously? Myself, for example. 51 yo, been an endurance athlete for nearly 30 years. Race IMs and ultras, dozens of each, at least 2 - 3 big ones each year, as hard and fast now as ever. If anyone has the 'lifestyle' risk factors for the types of conditions described, it would be me. So:
- are their reasonably straightforward tests/exams that I should be seeking to have done to determine if I have been pushing too hard and sustaining CV damage? Do I need to be a university lab rat, or could my GP refer me for an assessment by a cardiologist/other?
- are you, as a doctor, routinely advising
against
ultra level endurance sport participation? I recently received an annual check-up review from a doctor who is not my usual GP, and (although blood tests, blood pressure etc, etc were all perfect) she was
horrified
by my description of my training regime. Her serious suggestion was that I should stop the SBR immediately (OK, a little swimming, but not laps, just play) and take up a 30 minute daily yoga or tai chi session. I laughed in her fat face and determined not to consult her ever again. Was I being harsh and naive? Should I cancel my trip to Kona and enroll in a flower arrangement course instead?
In all seriousness, I'm committed to optimal health outcomes, but the research is unclear and a little ambiguous. Beyond "warrants further study", what is your takeaway?
nathan j
Jun 6, 12 4:14
Post #11 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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ZenRT wrote:
All I can say, both as a doctor and as an endurance athlete, is that this emerging evidence should be taken very seriously by the many in the Slowtwitch crowd who are faster than me at races.
.
TheRhino
Jun 6, 12 4:59
Post #12 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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The chart relating daily exercise to morbidity reduction seems to show a peak for vigorous exercise just below an hour, with 'moderate' exercise just below 2 hours. I don't know how they define vigorous and moderate but doesn't this sound like an average training week?
2-3x 1hr tempo sessions (run and bike - your vigorous work)
1x 2hr long run (done at a 'moderate' or easier pace)
1 x 3-5hr long bike (typically in Z2/3)
2-4x base work, technique, etc.
That would add up to a 14 hr training week at the max time levels with the only single workout violating the recommendations being the long bike.
Seems you can safely (according to their chart) work in some combination of 7 hours per week of hard exercise or trade those on a 2:1 basis with endurance pace efforts (to a max of 14 if all 'moderate').
- Mike
_______________________________________
BikeCalcFree 1.1
for the iPhone now available on iTunes and it's free!
Calculate speed from power or vice versa using sliders/switches to set weight, position, tires, grade, etc.. Feedback welcome!
3Dealz
Jun 6, 12 5:46
Post #13 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [bombagrande]
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I think the chances of serious medical issues because of the 8+ hours that I spend sitting at a desk job out weight any of this. Even with 14+ hours/week of exercise I do.
I think my exercise just made it more tolerable.
Duffy
Jun 6, 12 5:57
Post #14 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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Does this mean we are going to die at some point?
____________________________________________________
"This hip-hoppers ended up tightly connected with basketball along with highway dances."
spomeroy
Jun 6, 12 6:06
Post #15 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [Duffy]
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...it's very likely none of us are getting out of here alive..except that Lance guy..
cheers
S.
// qui audet vincit
lcreswell
Jun 6, 12 6:18
Post #16 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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Excellent review article. Great reading. Recommend the article to your endurance athlete friends.
At the outset, it's important to remember that there are many well-established health benefits of exercise. The evidence is overwhelming.
We're only beginning now to understand the long-term cardiovascular consequences of exercise in detail. This article summarizes the rather small amount of available information about potential harm that may come from "excessive" exercise. It does seem entirely plausible, though, that, for at least some individuals, there is an amount of exercise that can become unhealthy.
Going forward, the challenge will be to identify which individual athletes are at risk of harm with "excessive" exercise....and to define some threshold (duration/intensity) which remains healthy. Obviously, more work in this area is needed.
The headlines in the popular press about this article are unfortunate because I suspect they will discourage some folks from exercising. And that's an opportunity lost.
Larry
Larry Creswell
aca_broj_1
Jun 6, 12 6:21
Post #17 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [windschatten]
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Yeah, that's something that bugs me as well. Whenever someone says anything bad against over exercising, the answer is always 'well, at least I'm not a 400lb slob who just sits on the couch!'. That is about as ridiculous as if the 400lb'er said 'well, at least I'm not starving myself to organ failure!'
moneydog59
Jun 6, 12 6:28
Post #18 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [spomeroy]
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or Jens...
"one eye doubles my eyesight, so things don't look half bad" John Hiatt
Terra-Man
Jun 6, 12 6:39
Post #19 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [lcreswell]
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Well, it shouldn't be too surprising to see findings such as elevated biomarkers of myocardial injury, or even areas of myocardial scar in endurance athletes...we certainly wouldn't be surprised to discover such findings in skeletal muscle....so the question is, "So what?" i.e. Are there any clinical sequelae? And, are there any measures to prevent scar tissue, such as specific diet changes, or aspirin, etc.
Sponsored by: Center for Breast Health at MS. Baptist Med. Ctr.
Member of Ironman Foundation/Newton Running Ambassador Team
Partial to: Zipp, Quarq, & SRAM, Newton Running (haha not holding my breath for a swim sponsor)
oceanlife
Jun 6, 12 6:46
Post #20 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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ZenRT wrote:
All I can say, both as a doctor and as an endurance athlete, is that this emerging evidence should be taken very seriously by many in the Slowtwitch crowd.
Are you a dentist?
ZenRT
Jun 6, 12 8:47
Post #21 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [oceanlife]
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oceanlife wrote:
ZenRT wrote:
All I can say, both as a doctor and as an endurance athlete, is that this emerging evidence should be taken very seriously by many in the Slowtwitch crowd.
Are you a dentist?
Actually, among the many things I do, one thing I do is look at endomyocardial biopsies. So I am very familiar with post-ischemic myocardial fibrosis (i.e. scarring).
Exercise is good for you. No news there. What is news is that there is accumulating evidence that exercising to the point of low grade cardiac ischemia produces pathologic myocardial fibrosis. In SOME people this fibrosis appears to hasten or induce the onset of things like atrial fibrillation, need for a pacemaker, or worst case scenario, sudden arrhythmia related cardiac death.
I brought this review article to everyone's attention as a public service and not to threaten anyone's lifestyle choices.
YMMV. Thanks.
squid
Jun 6, 12 9:43
Post #22 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [Fish2587]
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one article like this will just give one more excuse for the obese to continue rotting away on the couch
All or nothing mentality
. There are
distances shorter than 140.3, you know. One doesn't have to run a marathon in order to exercise for health
squid
Jun 6, 12 9:46
Post #23 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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not to threaten anyone's lifestyle choices
You must be new here.
........
Jun 6, 12 9:50
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [ZenRT]
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And data shows that for many the onset of AFib is vagally mediated, and somewhat adaptative in nature, without an underlying pathological issue.
Not to mention that there is no established causality here, merely reports of potential association of issues in some people at risk...
Fish2587
Jun 6, 12 10:16
Post #25 of 78
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Re: Too Much Exercise- Not Good News [squid]
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Not quite sure where I implied otherwise? I'm well aware of all distances. My point is that these 'studies' come out and there are way too many people looking for any excuse to continue doing nothing. It only perpetuates that. You think the majority of the population that see the quick yahoo headline on this really delineate between endurance exercise and shorter exercise? They see only 'exercise is bad for you.' Im really not sure where you came up with that conclusion from my response.
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