Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [ericMPro] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
The tunnel may get you the most aero position possible, but being comfortable in that position is more important IMHO.

I use pointy hats as an example. A number of years ago we all rode pointy hats that worked great with your face up, looking down the road and the tail flat on your back, but that position isn't sustainable for 180km. Therefore, pointy hats that only work in one position have disappeared and helmets that target being areo for the whole ride, have become the norm.

I believe riding aero (as determined by the wind tunnel) is an important, but not exclusive consideration.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rider off there is a motor that spins both wheels at 30mph. When the rider is on the rear wheel roller is attached by a belt and turns the front wheel at the same speed. The rider drives the wheel speed. We normalized the gear and chain line on the bike so the wheel speed should have been nearly the same across the board given that Kiley was very consistent with his cadence/speed.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [knighty76] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Haha.. I said the same thing, but honestly I was doing stuff in the control room pretty much the whole time Herbert was in the tunnel. Oh well.


knighty76 wrote:
Firstly, I love how the only photo we have of Heath in the front page article doesn't include his head because he is too tall to fit into the frame.



Secondly, below quoted for later follow-up, just in case :-)

Slowman wrote:
- same for disc brake tri bikes. i'll eat my hat if the disc brake bikes, as a pair, test more than 2 watts slower than the 2 best disc rim brake bikes you tested, in a blended sweep, and normalized down to 24mph (where people actually ride their bikes).


And this is the hat.



Thirdly I thought you lads did a smashing job and I was happy to have chipped in a few quid. Really looking forward to the write up.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [spudone] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
He held pretty much perfectly still. But you know the bike is also pretty well locked into place too. ;)


spudone wrote:
Slowman wrote:
can i ask you a protocol question? and it's a lead-up to another question, but i want to understand this first. at the A2 tunnel, my assumption is that the rider turns the rear wheel, just like a bike trainer. and a servo turns the front wheel (at the tunnel's wind speed).

do i understand this right? so far? or are the rider-aboard-test wheels spun in some other way?

I might become a Kiley fan if you tell me he held perfectly still on all those tests on rollers :)



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [ianpeace] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
ianpeace wrote:
There's another test going on here that interests me far more than wind tunnels and drag. It's the test that demonstrates less anonymity equals better behavior. So far the results look good: "I will just try to do it in a way that isn't so divisive and cruel."

Ian

Well I had the benefit of meeting TheRealKiley (back in 2013 or 2014), so to me the entire Pubes show was just a show and I had the benefit of being able to read past it for the meat in the message. But I can totally see how it was divisive and had an acid tone if you did not know the man behind the act.

Soooo....since in one of the threads, I asked Slowman to invite him back with the Kileyay handle, I still feel like he owes us the "What happened at Oceanside While I was Banned from ST" report!!!! Switching to TheRealKiley would be totally optional if Slowman supports a parody of a parody handle! Seriously, I am glad that he's back, but I am actually less interested in his exploits in the windtunnel than actually what happened in racing....to me its the difference between reporting on what happened in the huddle or practice vs what happened on game day. I'm more interested in game day stories. Not enough posts around here about racing compared to posts about gear. Racing is timeless...the gear the races were done on are only transient.

Having said that, I am marginally interested in how close the Lotus of Boardman would come to the Ventum!
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote:
I am marginally interested in how close the Lotus of Boardman would come to the Ventum!

I know someone with a Lotus. I might be able to convince him to ship it to the US if you're really interested.

Brian Stover USAT LII
Accelerate3 Coaching
Insta

Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You might convince Colby Pearce to loan out his from its current resting place at the pro's closet museum

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Last edited by: Morelock: Apr 19, 17 19:26
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That would be a tough one since it is set up as a track bike with lots of mods.



Heath Dotson
HD Coaching:Website |Twitter: 140 Characters or Less|Facebook:Follow us on Facebook
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ex-cyclist wrote:
He held pretty much perfectly still. But you know the bike is also pretty well locked into place too. ;)

I was so still on the Ventum that to see any difference between my CdA values at the three zero yaw points, you have to go out to the fourth decimal point. So I was within 0.0001 on all three. Talk about spot on.
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [Ex-cyclist] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Hmm there is that, he probably wouldn't be keen on messing with it. I'm pretty sure he rode that same one on and off the track though.
I've got an old 650c zipp2001 to throw in the mix ;) too bad Dimond doesn't make a 650.

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Morelock wrote:
You might convince Colby Pearce to loan out his from its current resting place at the pro's closet museum


You mean this set up from his US hour record:



This is what he wrote on his website:

In September of 1995 I set the US hour record in Colorado Springs, CO using the full aero setup pictured above. I rode 50.191km in one hour and also set the 10km, 20km and 50km US records along the way. The previous record was held by John Frey (49.404km) and was also set in Colorado Springs, which is a concrete outdoor 333.3 meter track. Colorado Springs is 6035 feet above sea level.
In 1997 Norm Alvis broke my record and rode 51.505 km. I tried to take it back later that year and was ahead at 10km but fell behind by 20km and abandoned the attempt.
As you can see, I was pretty decked out for 1995 – even today equipment does not get leaps and bounds faster. The full carbon Lotus frame was light years ahead of most other bikes in that age. I had a deep front wheel (HED “deep”) and my position had been refined in the wind tunnel. I used a 55×14 gear and averaged close to 100 RPM. My average power, recorded with a SRM track power meter, was 311 watts. My drag was measured in this position at Texas A&M at around 4.6 lbs @30 mph.
I sometimes get funny questions about the hour record, such as “What was your time?” to which I usually respond “One hour. Someone once asked me “Well, at what point did you just stand up and go as hard as you possibly could all the way to the line, 100% as fast as you could go?” to which I responded “At the start.”
A complete list of recognized hour record distances is regularly updated by Mike Mowett on Wikipedia and can be found here:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hour_record
As of 2015 I was still in the top 30 all time furthest distances ridden but that will change as more riders continue to tackle this event.
In 2013 I trained for another attempt on the US record and rode 49.806km. I was about 25 seconds down on the schedule to further Norm Alvis’ distance and then the wind picked up, putting me further off schedule. I rode further than the world record for the 40-44 age group at that time but the record was not submitted to the UCI as there were no doping control officers present. I did get the USAC 40-44 record, in addition to riding the furthest of anyone in the 30+ categories. The page for US records is here:
http://www.usacycling.org/usa-cycling-national-records.htm
I trained the entire 2013 season with this attempt in mind but after a storm delayed the construction of the Boulder Valley Velodrome, I was forced to move my attempt to Colorado Springs. I intended to try the record at the end of September in 2013 but then came the 1000 year Colorado floods. After week of not riding and dealing with our house, which had considerable water damage, I almost decided not to ride. After a year of preparation I owed it to my family, sponsors and myself to do what I could. Many local roads were closed so training took an apocalyptic coloring. After finding excellent form in the early part of September, I did what I could to polish my abilities and went for it. Unfortunately, the result was a much shorter distance than I hoped for.
Additionally, one week later I established the Absolute Record (read: Merckx style) for the US, with a distance of 46.452. That ride was extremely challenging and my bike had some technical issues which contributed to my ride being sub optimal, but it was what it was. I used a Nobilette custom steel frame with Wolber rims, and custom 34 cm drop bars. Now the UCI has done away with that category, which makes the effort completely obsolete. The reality is that it was an obtuse line to draw in the sand in the first place and it never made sense to try and turn back the clock on an effort like this. Nobody wants to see riders time trailing in drop bars for an hour with spoked wheels when we have tools like disc wheels and aero bars at our disposal today. I am glad the UCI has moved on. I can say this because I was stupid enough to sign up for it…
Last edited by: devashish_paul: Apr 19, 17 19:39
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
That's it, although I don't think it sits with the aero or die setup any more.

Would have been neat to know how his felt tk + brezza Nanos he used for his attempt years later compared

My Blog - http://leegoocrap.blogspot.com
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I could write up a race report Dev. Those are good points. The gear is cool just because I feel like it's connected to larger issues here. Which is, sort of ironically, to see how big of fools we might be for being so focused on the speed of these bikes.
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [Morelock] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Morelock wrote:
That's it, although I don't think it sits with the aero or die setup any more.

Would have been neat to know how his felt tk + brezza Nanos he used for his attempt years later compared

I believe our man Kiley and Colby are also the same size
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [tridork] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are wrong

tridork wrote:
The tunnel may get you the most aero position possible, but being comfortable in that position is more important IMHO.

I use pointy hats as an example. A number of years ago we all rode pointy hats that worked great with your face up, looking down the road and the tail flat on your back, but that position isn't sustainable for 180km. Therefore, pointy hats that only work in one position have disappeared and helmets that target being areo for the whole ride, have become the norm.

I believe riding aero (as determined by the wind tunnel) is an important, but not exclusive consideration.

Eric Reid AeroFit | Instagram Portfolio
Aerodynamic Retul Bike Fitting

“You are experiencing the criminal coverup of a foreign backed fascist hostile takeover of a mafia shakedown of an authoritarian religious slow motion coup. Persuade people to vote for Democracy.”
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
kileyay wrote:
I could write up a race report Dev. Those are good points. The gear is cool just because I feel like it's connected to larger issues here. Which is, sort of ironically, to see how big of fools we might be for being so focused on the speed of these bikes.

Was your Oceanside set up one of the set ups from the tunnel? I assume the answer is yes? In which case your final result would be the same on all bikes tested?
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I believe he stated elsewhere that to meet the stack of one of the bikes (the p5?), he had to come up a tiny bit on his "default" coordinates.

also unsure of how he tested various bottle setups relative to how he raced, but i believe the general intention was to setup similar to how he'd race 70.3.

so no and yes, final answer.

----
@adamwfurlong
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
kileyay wrote:
I could write up a race report Dev. Those are good points. The gear is cool just because I feel like it's connected to larger issues here. Which is, sort of ironically, to see how big of fools we might be for being so focused on the speed of these bikes.


Was your Oceanside set up one of the set ups from the tunnel? I assume the answer is yes? In which case your final result would be the same on all bikes tested?

Actually, it's neither the same frameset -- it's the same exact B series frame, but new and a different color scheme -- bar, stem, or wheels that I raced at Oceanside. The full bike I rode at Oceanside I sold in the parking lot of my hotel the morning after the race to someone who contacted me about an ad I put up on that bike over a year ago. The guy lived in San Diego and drove down to check out the bike and dropped $5k right there.

To pull off this test I had to do a lot of equipment horse trading. I'm good at equipment horse trading, and I tend not to lose that much money because I'm sophisticated at buying things for low prices and selling them for similar prices. By selling that bike, I was able to build the new frameset Felt provided for me up to spec consistent with the position and component choices to facilitate this test. So I built it up with Enve 7.8 SES rim brake hoops, which I bought used, whereas before I had Zipp 808s. I replaced my previous base bar, which had a habit of cracking at the clamp, with the Enve bar for product integrity reasons. And I tossed on a slightly longer stem so that I could stop having to put my elbows so far forward on the pads.

So I can't tell you if my result would have been the same. I missed the turn off to the finishing chute at Oceanside, ran up the biggest hill on the course and quite a bit past the top of it, and then realized my mistake and had to retrace my steps, losing over two minutes. The sign pointing to the right said "2nd Loop -->" and in my tired, foggy brain, that was for me, because I was on my second loop. I lost out to the second place amateur, GLindy, by six seconds.

I guess an interesting and logical question might be, if I had actually known the course, where the run ends, or had not been a complete idiot, does that correction alone trump the decision to ride the slowest bike relative to the fastest bike on this test (if we assume the B2 is slowest, like everyone here likely does)? How much does choosing the fastest bike benefit me in time -- or the inverse, how much does the slowest bike hurt me in time -- for a race of that distance, at my speed, at my weight, at that pressure, assumed rolling resistance, etc.? We could get pretty crazy with the time prediction model. Somebody has already mentioned that I reach out to Best Bike Split, and it's a great idea. I just don't want to take my eye off the prize if the simple model I have for time prediction right now is basically sufficient for answering the core questions of this test.

Right now I'm more worried about yaw weights that I am about time prediction modeling or whether I would have beat GLindy on a P5-X. Unless my Felt was fastest, I already know riding the next fastest bike in the lineup would have pushed me up into runner up position in the amateur race. So there's your context. Does this shit matter if these bikes are close or doesn't it? That is entirely personal.
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I know someone in Nashville with a Lotus. If anyone is interested I could ask if he would loan it for testing.


desert dude wrote:
Quote:
I am marginally interested in how close the Lotus of Boardman would come to the Ventum!


I know someone with a Lotus. I might be able to convince him to ship it to the US if you're really interested.
Last edited by: svennn: Apr 20, 17 9:32
Quote Reply
Re: To Kiley, and the rest of the crew at A2 [svennn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
svennn wrote:
I know someone in Nashville with a Lotus. If anyone is interested I could ask if he would loan it for testing.


desert dude wrote:
Quote:
I am marginally interested in how close the Lotus of Boardman would come to the Ventum!


I know someone with a Lotus. I might be able to convince him to ship it to the US if you're really interested.

There's a guy in LA with one:

http://imgur.com/a/LRzjp

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
Quote Reply

Prev Next