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Re: Tim Don out for kona [rj_tri] [ In reply to ]
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With what I’ve seen walking and driving, I’d be petrified of riding here. My skin crawls watching some of the bike and car interactions.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [PMo] [ In reply to ]
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PMo wrote:
Sanrafaeltri wrote:
PMo,


You are right that the one waving them didn't check the bike lane. But that is negligence not intent. They truly did not mean the cyclist harm. It was an accident.

To contrast that, I (and I imagine most cyclists have similar stories) have had folks throw things at me (while I'm in the bike lane), get real close and yell at me to make me fall, see me and choose to turn out right in front of me and see me and choose to do an illegal u-turn in front of me causing me to hit them and then telling the officer "I had no right to be on the road".

Unintentional would be the old lady who turned left in front of me and nearly hit me or the driver who turned right into a restaurant after passing me in the bike lane. Should they have seen me? Yes. Did they? No. I am upset about these two as my life is still in danger, but these were not intentional like the others above (and many others that I could recount) all of which have occurred since 2017. In 2014 to 2016 I had zero situations where someone intentionally mistreated me on a bike. The sad thing is that I feel hunted on the bike these days by people who are bullies behind the wheel. I now wear a blinking safety vest on every ride and a camera on my helmet in addition to the normal array of blinking lights all over my bike.


Saying that it wasn't an accident isn't the same as saying that it was intentional.

Calling something an accident implies that there is no on at fault and that it couldn't have been prevented and it's just something that is always going to happen. This makes us complacent and doesn't motivate us to improve our driving skills and situational awareness.

If we just say "oh it was an accident, nothing you can do" then drivers will continue waving other drivers across the road without checking their mirrors for bikes. If we instead call it an incident and look for a root cause, then we can educate ourselves and others and make the roads safer.

There's an important distinction in the words used that shouldn't be taken lightly.

https://www.vox.com/2015/7/20/8995151/crash-not-accident


Never rely on others for your safety.

Never pass a car sitting in the traffic lane on the right unless you are sure they can't turn into you, the road ahead is clear and/or they see you.

Part of survival 101 for cyclists in urban traffic.

Yes, I hate to be preachy and that I am the slowest of my group to get out of town.
Last edited by: windschatten: Oct 12, 17 21:41
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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It wasn't the car he was passing that got him, it was someone from the other lane. You can talk all you want about how cyclists need to protect themselves, and you'd be right in that it is smart to do so. However, that also doesn't change the fact that he had every right to be riding where he was and behaving in the way that he did. The car was the entity that was somewhere it should not have been.
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [bretzky] [ In reply to ]
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bretzky wrote:
Stick to the indoor trainer like Lionel.

There are apparently a ton of athletes here that must do just that, because they clearly have no freaking idea how to ride in traffic.
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [imswimmer328] [ In reply to ]
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imswimmer328 wrote:
It wasn't the car he was passing that got him, it was someone from the other lane. You can talk all you want about how cyclists need to protect themselves, and you'd be right in that it is smart to do so. However, that also doesn't change the fact that he had every right to be riding where he was and behaving in the way that he did. The car was the entity that was somewhere it should not have been.

I am very well aware what happened and who is at fault..

But I prefer to not prioritize or count on being in the right when I am on a bike.

For obvious reasons of vulnerability and given the general state of righteousness (entitlement) and indifference by others.
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [windschatten] [ In reply to ]
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windschatten wrote:
Never pass a car sitting in the traffic lane on the right unless you are sure they can't turn into you, the road ahead is clear and/or they see you.

Part of survival 101 for cyclists in urban traffic.

Yes, I hate to be preachy and that I am the slowest of my group to get out of town.

Yup, slow or stopped traffic in the lane adjacent to you, regardless of vehicle type, means you need to be slowing down or stopping too. Otherwise you hit people in crosswalks, or you get left-turning collisions. However -- do you think you could adequately judge when someone's going to open a gap in congested traffic, and hit the brakes in time? You probably have to be tooling along at 12mph to not get nailed.

Someone else in the thread called this specific situation the wave of death. The small size of on-street door-zone bike lanes and the relative lack of traffic in them drive most people to make terrible decisions in deciding when to cross them -- the person who hit Tim likely didn't even think about the bike lane. They essentially turn into death funnels. I would suggest this is an argument for better bike infrastructure, but cyclists training on the road usually favor roads in less-dense areas that wouldn't build separate bike infrastructure in the first place. In fact, the presence of a bike lane probably means you should slow down -- driver and cyclist alike.
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [tomk407] [ In reply to ]
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The president sets a national example. If someone acts like a bully or a petulant child, than others who would act that way are emboldened to do the same. While I cannot fault Trump for the accidents, that would be silly, I can, as many Republicans have pointed out, hold him responsible for empowering darker segments of our population. Can I say Trump is to blame? No. And I didn't. I did point out the correlation. But then again, it could be the .1% chance that this is simply random variation.

2018 Races: IM Santa Rosa, Vineman Monte Rio, Lake Tahoe 70.3
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [Sanrafaeltri] [ In reply to ]
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Drop the Trump BS. You see what you want to see. That is literally like the meme where everyone says "Thanks Obama", but you aren't trying to be funny. I've had people be assholes to me on the bike as long as I've put wheels on the road.

Someone did something stupid in a car in a risky area. But its something most have probably done themselves. Not necessarily trust a wave through, but have to pull through a line of traffic with low visibility. Was the person wrong.....yes. Did they have some sense of cockiness which allowed them to whip their car wherever they wanted without care for physically injuring cyclists due to the political climate........come on.
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [KG6] [ In reply to ]
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KG6 wrote:
Drop the Trump BS. You see what you want to see. That is literally like the meme where everyone says "Thanks Obama", but you aren't trying to be funny. I've had people be assholes to me on the bike as long as I've put wheels on the road.

Someone did something stupid in a car in a risky area. But its something most have probably done themselves. Not necessarily trust a wave through, but have to pull through a line of traffic with low visibility. Was the person wrong.....yes. Did they have some sense of cockiness which allowed them to whip their car wherever they wanted without care for physically injuring cyclists due to the political climate........come on.

These trump haters are just haters in life, and live in a entitlement bubble. Go trump!!

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [Sanrafaeltri] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe the town and/or the WTC should put in place some kind of moratorium on when riding is allowed in the weeks leading up to the race (e.g. less busy periods). Ticket those who don't follow it. Otherwise the problem is only going to get worse. Not saying this was Tim's fault, or the driver's, but it sounds like something needs to be done or the chaos will continue.

"The first virtue in a soldier is endurance of fatigue; courage is only the second virtue."
- Napoleon Bonaparte
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [zten] [ In reply to ]
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zten wrote:
In fact, the presence of a bike lane probably means you should slow down -- driver and cyclist alike.

Agree. Unprotected bike lanes that I've seen are built more for the convenience of motorists than the safety of cyclists.
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [aerobean] [ In reply to ]
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watched Tim win ITU Worlds in 2006, eleven years later and he's still world-class, damned impressive.. then KO'd by a car.
best of luck Tim, we will miss you in the race..
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
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h2ofun wrote:
KG6 wrote:
Drop the Trump BS. You see what you want to see. That is literally like the meme where everyone says "Thanks Obama", but you aren't trying to be funny. I've had people be assholes to me on the bike as long as I've put wheels on the road.

Someone did something stupid in a car in a risky area. But its something most have probably done themselves. Not necessarily trust a wave through, but have to pull through a line of traffic with low visibility. Was the person wrong.....yes. Did they have some sense of cockiness which allowed them to whip their car wherever they wanted without care for physically injuring cyclists due to the political climate........come on.

These trump haters are just haters in life, and live in a entitlement bubble. Go trump!!

You are a complete moron...stop posting and maybe check into a mental hospital??
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Re: Tim Don out for kona [Jctriguy] [ In reply to ]
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Staph it! This had nothing to do with politics.

Driving in some parts, well where I'm from Seattle too actually, is like a game of who's been brought up better. NEVER GIVE UP THE RIGHT OF WAY WHILE DRIVING. That's how accidents happen. You aren't being nice - you are being stupid - not to mention blocking 100 people behind you to let one in in front of you. Let them wait if the rules of the road say they are supposed to wait. Especially to let a left turn onto a multi lane road with a bike lane, my gods. How dumb???

That said, QK has been a construction shit show from the town to the airport for what 2 years now? How long does it take to add two more lanes to 8 miles of highway running through an empty volcanic wasteland? Ought to be a 6 month job tops.
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