The vuelta is so much more exciting than the TDF. You have guys at the end of the season with already huge amounts of races/training in the body, the courses are jammed packed with climbing, the gradients appear to be harder, teams have a harder time taking care of a rider. From a viewing perspective, its just more fun.

Can't believe Valverde is still on this type of form. Good to see Froome hurt a bit as that would be expected (still a top 5 GC easily). Good to see Quintana finally be able to make a move stick. Can't wait for the final 2 weeks.

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COROS Sports Science

It was pretty awesome seeing that attack by Froome, the counter attack by Quintana (FINALLY....been waiting for that since the beginning of July) and then Contador being caught, fighting back to pull back to Froome and then attacking the final pitch to gap Froome and Froome actually being "human". Almost makes me feel that maybe Sky's form at the TdF is "one time peaking" for the entire team and they just do that better than the other teams spreading their peaking over all the races...at least it would be nice to believe that fairy tale that Sky's TdF dominance, is a cumulation of better attention to detail and timing their form for 3 weeks mid summer. It would be natural for Froome to have "less form". He was ON big time in early June at the Dauphine, then all of July for the TdF. If he was "on" and superhuman again for the Vuelta, if nothing else, we'd be all over Sky more than ever.

"less form" is one way to put it

....would love to see Froome's actual wattage data when he's getting dropped by Quintana now vs dropping Quintana in the TdF. Or see Quintana's data and see "who is different" and by how much. It would be interesting to see if Quintana is putting out the same or less watts per kilo now which would mean Froome is putting out even less now. Or did Quintana's number's jump up? Did they put Quintana on the "Valverde perpetual form" program?

Or did Froome gain a few kilos between the time he was dropping Nairo and now...W/kg, not watts

C'mon Dev. You're better than this. You've now accused 3 of the 4 top rides in cycling of doping/cheating in this short thread alone. Yet, you've made no accusation about the one that has actually been busted for doping - Contador.

Valverde:


Froome:


Quintana:


Can't we just enjoy a beautiful race with some very tough climbing without it resorting to this every time?

Not going to accuse anyone of anything as I know thats a big no-no.. but there are some good things to see here.

Froome: Looks like someone that peaked in June/July and is riding out fitness but to a lesser extent at this time

Contador: Looks like someone who tried to peak in June/July.. was unlucky.. so due to sponsorship requirements tried to peak again quickly for Vuelta but is proving difficult... still strong fitness but not quite top notch

Quintana: Looks like maybe started the year a bit late and used TDF as a huge training block for late season peak (although maybe not what was planned)... A bit more fresh than Froome

Valverde: Well... this really doesn't add up unless you look at it as he's had so many years of so much training load that he literally just peaked early (but at 90% instead of 100%) and has worked to hold this 85-90% top notch fitness all year.

I think its atleast plausible. Seeing Nibali struggle at the tour was good for cycling. Seeing chavez ride strong at Giro and semi strong here is good.

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Both Valverde and Contador have been busted, not just Contador. Both showed tremendous talent and won many local and national championships since their school days. Yet they have been humiliated one time after the other by a clean guy that didn't manage to break the UCI top 200 until he was 25. That is how cycling works. Either forget about the juice and enjoy the show, no matter how false it may be, or forget cycling altogether.

Oops, forgot about Valverde's issues.

I always felt that the Giro and Vuelta tend to have a lot more action. Seems like the climbs are always nastier than the TdF where teammates are less of a factor and big gaps tend to open up. Or it could just be that because most riders and teams focus on the TdF, the differences in fitness are a lot smaller at the TdF than they are at the Giro and the Vuelta. In any case, it always enjoyed watching the Giro and Vuelta more than I have the TdF. The TdF has that mystical aura around it...but usually doesn't live up to the hype if you're expecting to see carnage.

No, it is the opposite....because the best riders are focused on Le Tour, the differences between them are larger. The best guy wins Le Tour (usually). They peak at the right time, are the strongest and they win.

For the Giro and the Vuelta, the top riders are NOT in top form, other riders who aren't true contenders for the Tour are peaking, which narrows the gap and makes for more exciting racing.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Or that's the theory anyway. That's the classic "Vuelta" narrative. Why Horner could beat Nibali.

They make for far better TV, the TDF is the weakest of the tours as far as viewing goes, but they seem to have the marketing down super strong. I love the Giro because the weather is often awful, it's crazy watching the guys at near 3000m altitude riding in the snow and potentially losing the race on some gnarly descents.

Froom had one of the biggest drop-offs in form I've ever seen. After his first TdF win he went to the USA Pro Challenge (RIP). Got dropped regularly from the pack of Pro Continental riders. Then pulled out the last day with the explanation that he was sick.

I totally understand Froome treating that race as a U.S. vacation and kind of a sportive, and not even considering racing for any kind of place. But the easiest way would have been to just sit in. And he couldn't even do that. He was chasing for time cuts solo at times.

Maybe he was actually really sick. The whole thing was kinda weird, though.

OK, I'm not coming out and saying anyone is doping (read carefully), but I'm going to be suspect of all the top guys. My feeling is they are doing whatever they can get away with while staying under thresholds and manage their numbers. It that's the best we have, so be it until we can come up with better.

Valverde and Contador known former dopers. I like the inconsitency of Contador. It almost makes me feel like the guys is cleaner than he ever was (whatever that means, but he's less turbo than the days of his rocket climbs up the likes of Verbier). Froome, as Publius said, may have gained some kilos in addition to losing some watts after peaking. I'd like to really know if Froome's watts per kilos are down or if Quintana's are up. It might be that Quintana's watts per kilo are the same as the tour, but the steeper the course the more your watts per kilo help when the speeds are super slow....so it might be as simple as his form is no better than the TdF and the roads got steeper.

In any case, the racing today was exciting.

Power13, how about posting a thread for the key stages that might make a difference in the GC? You did an awesome job in the TdF getting everyone rolling!

Is the video available online somewhere?

I don't know. Here in Canada we have daily evening coverage 1-2 hours on sportsnet and weekend live coverage (there may be live coverage during the day on weekdays, but I'm at work).

If you have a roku you can get the nbc gold app for it (not free, I think it was 20-30 for the year). I used it to watch the tour and the vuelta. Also had the tour of california.

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All we have to decide is what to do with the time that is given to us. ~Gandalf

Roku and nbc gold app is what I do. 29.99 for the year. Lots of races. Watch at your convenience and no commercials!

Horner shmorner. But I get the theory.

I also suspect the Giro and Vuelta are not the tight ship that is the TdF. From a controls perspective.