I've ran mechanical DA for 5-6 years now, I wanted to try out SRAM with the r2c last year, it's head and shoulders above DA. It really is that much better the shifting is a lot crisper. If I had the money I would go SRAM no question.

Yep, now that is fun! We've been playing around with one and it's helping Cervelo answer a few interesting research questions.


We already do that: the drag force we're talking about is automatically corrected for air density and wind speed.


Sure. Wind tunnels are not reality; wind tunnels are a simulation of a reality. They are very good; so good they allowed Jim Martin to write the Validation of a Math Model paper, a very useful tool for any thinking athlete who competes using a bike. Thanks wind tunnels! :-)

More generally, I think a healthy dose of skepticism about wind tunnels is warranted. There are a very few good wind tunnels, but not every building that has "wind tunnel" on a sign over the door means the data coming out of it is any good. We invited Slowtwitch to one of our wind tunnel tests a year or so ago and JT Lyons wrote what I thought was a very revealing article about Cervelo's wind tunnel test protocol, which was posted right on the front page of Slowtwitch, complete with photos of calibration bikes never before seen by the public. I was completely surprised by the lack of interest it generated. I had cleared my schedule to make time available to answer the slew of questions we expected it would generate... but not one came. It surprised me that athletes who are so heavily marketed to using wind tunnel data apparently aren't more interested in how wind tunnels work and what it takes to get meaningful data from them.





I admit it, sometimes I actually feel like I'm getting old. Don't tell anyone -- even though I've lived in Canada now almost four years I still check the forecast in degrees F! LOL. However I've gotten used to kilometres and metres. (Practising some of my Canadian spelling.)

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Damon: I just had a P5-3 built up with the Aduro bars in the high-v position and the spacers necessary to support that bar look really odd to me (without the cowling on the 6 version, the spacers protrude out over the brakes and just seem to make the bars hang in space - odd. Wonder if you'd be willing to PM me so I could send you some pics. Seems like I might want to go back to my other Syntace bars. No worries if this is not your gig.

I like the new Red a lot, but the only reason I have it on that bike is because DA9000 was not available at the time. Do I think it's better than DA7900? Yes. Do I think it's better than DA9000? No.

Dura Ace 9000 is incredible. Way better than even the new Red

Damon,

Couple of quick questions. I just ordered a P5 Six yesterday in a size 58. I currently ride a P2 and am looking forward to seeing the differences.

What are people doing for storage for tubes/tools? I usually carry three bottles for a HIM/IM distance race or training. I was thinking of the torpedo, down tube and the X-lab delta sonic. This covers the fluid needs. Am I better off with a standard X-lab wing that attaches to the seat so I can attach a bag with the required spares? I will also be using a stealth pocket, but plan to stuff extra nutrition in there as opposed to tools/tubes. Any thoughs based on what you've seen others do?

Also, where are people mounting their computers? Mine is currently on my stem, it it doesn't look like that's an option. I have not seen any photos of a P5 with a computer mounted up.

Thanks,
Shane

Storage: For Amy's bike in Kona she used the XLab P5 rear bottle mount for her bottle. We used profile design CO2 holders behind the bottle and used a velcro strap to secure her tire levers and tube to the bottle mount. You could also use the built in bento box for storage if you didn't want/need to use it for nutrition.

Computer: I have my Garmin just mounted on the Garmin mount with the rubber bands wrapped around the stem since I only have 1x5mm spacer below the stem. For Amy's I cut off the mount part of a Torhans computer mount and screwed it into the between the bars mount so that it sits on top of the stem. And, one of the Cervelo employees in Kona had filed out spots on the edges of the stem cover to run the rubber bands through there and hold the Garmin mount.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Thanks for the quick reply Brandon. Any chance you might have some photos of the bars with the computer in place so I can see exactly how you set them up?

The idea of filing slots for the rubber bands in the stem cover is a good one too I think. Glad to hear there's some options. It seemed like everywhere I looked it wasn't really addressed.

After spending this much on a bicycle, I don't really want to put anything on it that makes it look like it doesn't belong.

Thanks again and congrats on Kona!

Shane

If you do find that you need a little more space in your top tube storage (for more nutrition, a tube, a phone, whatever), you may want to take a look at our advanced US-made pack, the Speedpack 483D. Here is some athlete feedback about our packs, and here's a photo of a 483D mounted on a P5-six:

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Advanced Aero TopTube Storage for Road, Gravel, & Tri...ZeroSlip & Direct-mount, made in the USA.
DarkSpeedWorks.com.....Reviews.....Insta.....Facebook
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Hi wylie,

I think I'm picturing what you're describing and it sounds correct to me. The underside of the bottom spacer extends horizontally ahead of the head tube, right? This is the identical surface as the stem would be, so it is as designed. This surface is intentionally oriented streamwise, that is, parallel to the flow in the head tube aerozone, to minimize drag. It's why we include the aeromatched spacers with the Aduro.

You can send me the pictures if you like, or simply post them here, then others can follow along if they're interested. Either way works for me. ;-)

The P5's standard fork steerer does give you the option of going back to your old bars if you want, but the Aduro is an amazingly fast aero bar. If it suits you otherwise I'd keep it. It'll save you a fistfull of Watts!

Cheers!

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Hi Shane,

Looks like Brandon has some good suggestions for ya. Thanks Brandon! Hope he can snap some photos.

Greg's photo shows a very nice looking Dark Speed Works top tube pack, should definitely be on your radar for storage options as well as the X-Lab suite of options. Greg's photo also shows a Garmin mounted near where the rider's hands go. Since the Aduro bar was designed to use standard extensions, all the usual suspects for computer mounts are available to you. I mounted my Garmin on the extensions as well.

Have fun,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Thanks so much for the fast replies guys. I'm looking forward to racing on my P5 Six next season. I'm curious to see how it compares to my P2 since I feel my P2 is a great bike and pretty fast as it is. I wasn't impressed with the photos of the P5, but after seeing it in person I couldn't help myself.

I did have a quick question though. What is the difference between the 2012 P5 and the 2013 P5? I'll be getting the SRAM Red version. Is it just the matte paint? I saw it is spec'd with an Adamo saddle too? The one I saw in person was a 2012 and I think it had a Fizik saddle on it as I recall. Any other changes between the two years?

Thanks,
Shane

Damon: I'm not sure if the image is going to load, so I will pair it with some written description. The fit on my P5 was done using Retul with a highly competent fitter. I'm an older athlete (57) and had been riding on a P4 before this. I have to be a bit more "relaxed" in the fit for a setup for an IM, as I find the last 20 miles of the bike can be excruciating if I've got the aero bars down too low. So I sacrifice a bit of position for comfort.

But the fit resulted in six spacers under the aero bar (this is a P5-3). It looks pretty odd, and I wonder if it's designed to permit so many spacers and/or if that would tend to make it top-heavy. I'm sure you can visualize what it looks like

Hi wylie,

Your photo came through looking great, and thanks also for your clear explanation as well.

You do have a lot of spacers on there, but it sounds like you've worked on your position to your needs and satisfaction so you won't hear me telling you to change it. The number of spacers plus High-V combination is perfectly okay. It's near the structural maximum, but safely within the limits so there should be no worries there. The only question is, as you point out, an aesthetic one - and that's in the eye of the beholder. Our perception of normal changes as we get used to new things. A few decades ago oversized frame tubing was a visual shocker, but we got used to that. In 2006 Squoval frame tubes were the shocker - now lots of bike brands have copied them. Same with our ultra-slim seat stays.

I am curious if there is a reason you didn't choose a 58cm? I checked the P5 arm pad stack & reach table and it appears, for the same arm pad stack height, a 58cm P5 would have eliminated a few spacers, and the longer reach looks like it could have been reduced by choking up on the aero extensions and perhaps bolting the pads onto the base bar using the other holes. Maybe there's something your fitter knows that I'm not aware of?

At any rate, the 56cm you have works well for you, and your photo is an excellent example of the range of adjustability we've engineered into the Aduro aero bar.

Just thought of something: if you want to play with aesthetics, maybe install the beard below the spacers, and the front brake cover as well. You'd shift the visual step from the spacers and frame, to the fork, just below the brake. Might look different (better) to you?

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

I'll post in a day or so when I get home and shoot some pictures.

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Brandon Marsh - Website | @BrandonMarshTX | RokaSports | 1stEndurance | ATC Bikeshop |

Thanks for the detailed reply. But that fit belongs to another forum member. I don't have my P5 yet. I had asked about the differences in the 2012 to the 2013 models (I will be getting a SRAM Red version).

It looks like color maybe? And spec'd seat (looks to be an Adamo currently which would be great). Is that correct? And are there any other differences?

Thanks for all the fast replies! This is great info and has me more excited to get my P5.

Shane

Hi Shane,

Sorry for the mix up. Thanks for pointing it out - I've edited that post.

I know there are no structural changes or feature updates in the P5 frame or either P5 fork, so I think you've nailed the main changes between 2012 and 2013. I'm not in the office right now so can't ask our product manager about any other changes. But someone will definitely get back to you on that.

Stand by, ;-)

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Shane,

So, you are going P5... nice. The '13 P5 will come with latest version of Red. Other changes include a newer Rotor aero crank with 110bcd and 52/36t chain rings, Mavic Cosmic wheels, and the ISM Prologue saddle. Both the Three and Six versions come with the Magura RT6 brake. The differences in Six and Three spec for the P5 Red are the fork and handle bar (and all the trimmings that come with the Six fork and Aduro bar...)

The '12 and '13 frames are the same. Same colour, satin finish.

In summary, the '13 bike is very much the same but the build just got a little sweeter.

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David Byer
Cervélo

David,

Just wondering if the the upgrade kit for the P5-3 to the 6 is available yet?


Chris

Could you please explain why the ISM saddle. That would seem a bit "nitch" to me and not mainline like the Fizik.

Thanks for the insight.

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David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

David

What bar endss come with the 2013 P5-3 - are they straight - s-bend - ski pole?

Bob

Hi david,

Saddles are personal, and it's not unusual for new bike buyers to change theirs. So feel free to swap for any saddle you like.

That said, a lot of our pro riders told us they like the Adamo saddles a lot. We tested and agreed, by speccing them on our tri models.

Bike specs are never sure to please 100% of the people, and saddles are especially individual.

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)

Pretty sure they are all ski-bends... Basically, the standard Aura Pro set up. You can swap them out though.
*edited to correct "s-bends" to "ski-bends"

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David Byer
Cervélo

Does the cable housing for the rear mech run from shifter to rear mech, or does it terminate and restart when entering and exiting the frame?

Thanks

Hi not,

The housing stops and starts. It stops at the top tube ICS (internal cable stop), and re-starts at the bottom bracket cable guide. From there, housing goes inside the chain stay and continuously around the loop to the rear derailleur.

Typically Cervelos have no internal housing, to save weight and reduce cable friction. This is still true in the P5's down tube. In the chain stay, the P4 has a permanently bonded in stainless steel guide tube to curve around the rear brake. For the P5 we changed that to normal cable housing, which can be removed so a Di2 wire can pass through the chain stay.

You can see a transparent CAD image showing the P5's cable routing in the P5 White Paper on page 16. http://www.cervelo.com/...f-39946cd71205-0.pdf

Cheers,

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Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)