I would be curious to know how they even knew to test for that. They better take it while they can, because that is going to be super easy to develop assays for.

Probably because the advertisements for the pills are all over endurance magazines. I can't tell you how many times I have seen the advertisement while perusing a mag in the last year or so. There are whole page "articles" dedicated to why you should take this pill with "scientist" and "Dr." recommendations.

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

I'm way out of the loop. I've never seen any endurance magazines featuring ads for FG-4592. I guess I need to
read more.

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i'd be surprised if there are ads if only because its a phase 3 clinical trial, that said I don't read mags so would never see it

how they know to test for it, is AZ and ANOther firm will have notified WADA and other bodies including the UCI about its development and simultaneously developed tests for it alongside the drug

I didn't realize those were so blatant. I never bothered to read any of the "articles" that were clearly ads.

Not to mention the biological passport should be able to catch these drugs without a specific test.

But, remember, cycling is so much cleaner now.

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Just like baseball. That's why ARod is hitting so many home runs this year: the pitchers aren't juiced any more.

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"Go yell at an M&M"

I wouldn't be too quick to skewer cycling.



Look at the number of tests. If you don't think there are at least a couple triathletes out there with this shit in their system, you are delusional.

I believe cycling is only marginally dirtier than other sports. I just think that their past history, when they were dirtier, still impacts them. And, sadly, I think the fact that they test so much, which is why they catch so many more guys than in other sports, actually does them a PR disservice.

These two guys were certainly not the only athletes at PanAms taking this stuff.

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So because age groupers don't have a biological passport will that mean that maybe they can't get caught?

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Find out what it is in life that you don't do well, then don't
do that thing.

Oh, don't worry, I am under no illusions.

There are way, way, way more than just "a couple" of triathletes ...

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And then there is this:

if a pro cyclist is tested, but is tipped off in advance of that test, does it really matter that pro cycling tests riders a lot?

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This thread made me curious enough to finally look up biological passports and how they are supposed to work. If I understand them correctly, they would be pretty easy to work around. They establish a baseline for several blood values for an individual and look for changes compared to the baseline. We do something very similar for some of the assays where I work. Because of the natural fluctuations in the body, we use three data points acquired on different days to establish baselines for people enrolled in our clinical trials. All an athlete has to do is establish a falsely high baseline by doping from the beginning.

It might be technically easy, but is it easy in the regulatory sense to use human testing to develop an anti-doping test for a drug that's not yet FDA-approved?

Wouldn't it first have to pass all the tests for human safety?

That's how I don't understand how the tests for AICAR and its sister drugs were developed. Because as I understand it'd be unethical and illegal to ever give those drugs to a human in any kind of clinical test given the likely cancer risk.

The passport is beatable, but it's just one more thing that a doper has to worry about. It forces them to worry about variability as well as simply having the drugs in their system. If you have to dose every day to keep your various test markers steady (and IIRC, one of the test markers is "steadiness of test markers"), it makes it somewhat more likely you or your "doctor" will get caught with a fridge full of whatever in your hotel room.

You could maybe aim to make your blood values super-variable while they're doing the baseline, but you'd think they'd ask "why does your hematocrit double twice a week? do you want to see a doctor about it?".

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You don't dose people to develop an assay. You take blank blood, spike it with the drug, mix, and extract. Easy-peasy. I do it all the time.

I was vague. What I was referring to are the EPOBoost ads that are a whole page. They have been all over.

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"Just don’t abandon everything you’ve ever learned because of something someone said on the internet." - Eric McGinnis

Thank you for a reasoned response. The UCI makes up 26% of all the drug testing. No other organization even cracks double-digits.

If I am reading that table right, WTC did no in competition testing and only 253 OOC tests. Kinda disappointing.....

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No "in-competition" testing for Athlete Biological Passport samples.

It says nothing about actual doping tests, only ABP samples.

Even more funny is that Russia is a big no. 2 on that list. Ah, yes, Russia.

So athletes from Russia must be really clean.

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Move along, nothing to see here, all cyclists stopped doping in 2006- didn't you see the reports from USADA? The only reason they are faster today is zipp has a new aero wheel, bikes are lighter, and SKY is using marginal gains like warming down and using 'specific' training protocals.

I believe I used to warm down at the end of every swim practice from the mid 1970s onward...

WTC? What about the IAAF - also no in-competition tests, and that's got to be the dirtiest sport going

Brian

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Brian

Gonna buy a fast car, put on my lead boots, take a long, long drive
I may end up spending all my money, but I'll still be alive

The passport is largely a public relations sham. Cyclists are not getting caught by the APB because their values deviated too much from a baseline. They get busted by extreme anomalies, like hematocrit jumps substantially while reticulocytes crater. There is such a wide tolerance for variations that it is easy to avoid being flagged. Years before the ABP, when the UCI switched from pure hematocrit, to an off-score, riders were using micro doses of EPO to prevent reticulocytes from decreasing after transfusions. The UCI's Dr. Zorzoli gave presentations to each team to explain how the teams' riders needed to adjust their blood values to avoid running afoul of the new testing.

Ag'ers won't be caught because they aren't tested

It's got nothing to do with the passport its to do with the volume of participants and the number of in and out of competition tests

They estimate that the transmission rate of hiv through steroid use in the UK is approaching the same levels as through iv drug use

I'm going with the theory that they're relatively easy to get, their use is increasing, participants are more than the past and testing is the same or proportionately less