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The FASTEST bike frame
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Folks,
after my two recent races, when I did some remarkable bike splits few people were impressed and decided to support me with a new bike frame - the fastest one.
Now I'm facing the first world problem - what bike I should choose. Which one will be the fastest.
I'm opting for Canyon Speedmax or Scott Plasma 5. Dimond also should be on the list.
I could wait some time for very anticipated Cervelo P6(?) the question is how long we gonna wait for it.

Currently I'm riding moded P3 size 51.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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Ummm that bike you are riding there is plenty fast. Not sure if that is a race picture, but my 2 cents is you will gain more time by upgrading your "kit" then upgrading the bike. And not sure what aero helmet that is. But rather than a new bike, time in the tunnel would more than likely return bigger gains as well.

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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whatever bike is most expensive
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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This is my race day kit - gave me 2h04'30" - 43.2kmph
Helmet is Met Drone WB - same as Frodeno (during Barcelona 70.3 he was faster by 2'40" on the bike)
Last edited by: michalp: Jun 29, 16 5:04
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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Course and race name of where that picture was taken and the 2:04 was ridden?

Your current setup is still solid and I don't think you will be making huge gains going to a P5 or Canyon Speedmax. Waiting to see what they do with the P6 isn't a bad idea, unless this said money from supporter/sponsor has a time limit on it.

Still think getting in the tunnel to tweak things is a good investment over a new bike. I had that same P3 frame that I rode from 2009 till early 2013, and it went plenty fast. You have yours built even cleaner than mine was.........

-Brad Williams
Website | Twitter: @BW_Tri |Instagram: @BW_Tri | Strava | Co-Founder & Coach at: KIS Coaching
Partnered with: Zoot Sports | Precision Fuel &Hydration | ISM
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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That is a wonderful problem to have. It looks like you are riding an older P3, so frame designs have advanced a crap-ton since then. Even the current P2/P3 would add a lot. The hard part is that there is not much objective, data-based comparative information on frames. And, when frames are compared, they are typically done without riders and without all the race trim stuff.

My 2¢ is look at highly aero frames when they are fully outfitted with all your race gear. So, integrated hydration and integrated storage count very high. For example, the P5 may look very fast in its out-of-the-box condition. But, strap on hydration and storage, and it may become pedestrian relative to a bike like the new Canyon with integrated everything.

I would not wait on a P6. First, it is already behind schedule and my hunch is that their first attempt may not be performing well against the current market leaders. And second, with the acquisitions and transitions, I am wondering if Cervelo has lost its mojo. They have an awesome brand, but their bikes are 3 YO designs.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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Unrelated, how did you attach your aerojacket. Looks like you used different fasteners to the ones supplied.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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michalp wrote:
This is my race day kit - gave me 2h04'30" - 43.2kmph
Helmet is Met Drone WB - same as Frodeno (during Barcelona 70.3 he was faster by 2'40" on the bike)

What Brad is saying is that there could be some low hanging fruit via slight position tweaks, clothing choices, etc. found in the wind tunnel that cost much less than a new bike and would offer greater gains.

Your race top is kind of loose which means you're not as aero as you could be with a tighter and better fitting top.

The Met Drone might be the fastest helmet on you or it might be the 8th fastest helmet on you. Just because it works great for Frodo doesn't mean it works great for everyone. That stated, it looks like it matches well with your riding style.

Favorite Gear: Dimond | Cadex | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [Saundo] [ In reply to ]
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Saundo wrote:

Unrelated, how did you attach your aerojacket. Looks like you used different fasteners to the ones supplied.
Fasteners taken straight from the parcel send me by wheelbuilder. Simply it fits Flo90 perfectly.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [@BW_Tri] [ In reply to ]
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http://triathlon.susz.pl/
results - http://wyniki.b4sport.pl/...ans-sredni/e307.html
my ride - http://tpks.ws/isk13
I've really struggled due to overheating on the run - swimsuit should be forbidden - water was someting like 26C or more. 10% didn't finish.

Previously I rode 1.59.40 on little to short course - http://tpks.ws/eED4z but it was raining and running was fine then.
Race was Polish Nationals and I finished 11 with bike split 4 min faster then second fastest who won the race.
I could also mention that both splits were course records.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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michalp wrote:
Folks,
after my two recent races, when I did some remarkable bike splits few people were impressed and decided to support me with a new bike frame - the fastest one.
Now I'm facing the first world problem - what bike I should choose. Which one will be the fastest.
I'm opting for Canyon Speedmax or Scott Plasma 5. Dimond also should be on the list.
I could wait some time for very anticipated Cervelo P6(?) the question is how long we gonna wait for it.

Currently I'm riding moded P3 size 51.

Canyon has not released any wind tunnel data. Don't buy a bike because someone won Kona on it. If you look at Dimonds data, beam bikes really aren't faster once a rider is on them. I don't get why people are so obsessed with beam bikes other than looks.

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [BryanD] [ In reply to ]
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That's the reason I'm asking here - I want to get the answer what is the best choice and not to be misled by impressions from race results.
Canyon for sure looks fast to me with it's integrated hydration and storage. Same as Scott does.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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They're not the fastest if you fit awkwardly on them. You want the FASTEST for you, not the FASTEST riderless in a wind tunnel.


--Chris
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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you're set up pretty low on a bike that is one of the lowest around. I'm not sure you'd be able to replicate that on any of the current bikes.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
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This was already discussed some time ago - with P5 it should work with one spacer and low stem.
But in general this is a good suggestion.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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That P3 is a fast bike. I have a 1st, 2nd and 3rd in the last three National Championships that i did on a p3 and a Hour Record on a p4. Not that those results scientifically means anything, but I could have any bike and for now I am sticking with the long and low bikes, p3's and p4's. With a rider on them, most modern aero frames are very similar in drag, where as, small changes in position can have huge results. You want to get faster, its all about the fit and position. Go to a tunnel with a good fitter and keep working on getting lower and narrower. I am a TTer so you may not need to be aggressive as me but you have tons of room for improvement.

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BoulderCyclingCoach.com
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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You do not need a faster frame. The engine is amazing and what I see is a few upgrades.

Wind Tunnel Time - The most important factor.

Clothing - something tighter and proven in the tunnel on you.

Helmet - something that works for you and proven in the tunnel on you.

Sram eTap TT - no exposed cables other than your rear brake housing.

TriRig - Omega X front and rear and Alpha X bars.

Bottles - BTA and behind the saddle only. Remove the "maybe aero" aero bottle on the frame.

Other options - 1x11 set up on the front and remover the FD hanger if possible. Not sure on that frame how easy it would be.

Tunnel testing should be the main item and the other items will help a bit as well.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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The marginal gains you'll get from the FASTEST bike frame (whatever that means) will pale in comparison to what you'll reap from shaving that that watt-sapping nest off your chin.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [davews09] [ In reply to ]
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Then you remove all his power.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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BMANX wrote:
You do not need a faster frame. The engine is amazing and what I see is a few upgrades.

Wind Tunnel Time - The most important factor.

Clothing - something tighter and proven in the tunnel on you.

Helmet - something that works for you and proven in the tunnel on you.

Sram eTap TT - no exposed cables other than your rear brake housing.

TriRig - Omega X front and rear and Alpha X bars.

Bottles - BTA and behind the saddle only. Remove the "maybe aero" aero bottle on the frame.

Other options - 1x11 set up on the front and remover the FD hanger if possible. Not sure on that frame how easy it would be.

Tunnel testing should be the main item and the other items will help a bit as well.


Wind Tunnel Time - yes, but it won't be ease to get it in PL. One company is introducing Alphamantis so probably I will give it a try.
Clothing - racing in Castelli Body Paint SR Short Sleeve - IMHO already good piece of cloth
Sram eTap - the only 2 exposed wires from di2 are one behind the stem and one going to rear derailleur
TriRig - front is 'regular' Omega, rear is Ultegra (swapping for omega could potentially save 0.5w)
Bottles - i've got gels inside, for 70.3 i could get rid of it, but then i would loose time and speed on playing with gels in sachets.
Last edited by: michalp: Jun 29, 16 7:30
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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michalp wrote:

Wind Tunnel Time - yes, but it won't be ease to get it in PL. One company is introducing Alphamantis so probably I will give it a try.
Clothing - racing in Castelli Body Paint SR Short Sleeve - IMHO already good piece of cloth
Sram eTap - the only 2 exposed wires from di2 are one behind the stem and one going to rear derailleur
TriRig - front is 'regular' Omega, rear is Ultegra (swapping for omega could potentially save 0.5w)
Bottles - i've got gels inside, for 70.3 i could get rid of it, but then i would loose time and speed on playing with gels in sachets.


Change the suit to a Kiwami Spider LD Aero. Castelli suits haven't tested as well on people from what I've heard.
http://www.kiwamitri.com/product-p/spidlda.htm

Make Inside Out Sports your next online tri shop! http://www.insideoutsports.com/
Last edited by: BryanD: Jun 29, 16 7:43
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [BMANX] [ In reply to ]
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The other good stuff and the fastest frame are not mutually exclusive. The OP received an offer to upgrade to the fastest frame. This may not be transferable to other stuff (he did not say). And the other stuff would also benefit the fastest frame. It would seem to make sense to buy the fastest foundation before investing in any wind tunnel time anyway, since optimizations would be best on the fastest frame.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [exxxviii] [ In reply to ]
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exxxviii wrote:
The other good stuff and the fastest frame are not mutually exclusive. The OP received an offer to upgrade to the fastest frame. This may not be transferable to other stuff (he did not say). And the other stuff would also benefit the fastest frame. It would seem to make sense to buy the fastest foundation before investing in any wind tunnel time anyway, since optimizations would be best on the fastest frame.

Thanks exxxviii.
Honestly I don't know if this could be transferred to something else. For sure now I'm known to be the course record breaker and the who shows PRO's how to ride the bike and this is why I've received the offer.
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [michalp] [ In reply to ]
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Not sure about other's thoughts and maybe shouldn't try to through another horse into the race, but don't overlook Argon 18. From what I can tell with wind tunnel data I can find and what I have seen advertised, take that with a grain of salt. The Argon 18 e-119+ in real world situations is faster that the P5. Plus it comes with some integrated options. Just my 2 cents
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Re: The FASTEST bike frame [ColinW] [ In reply to ]
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ColinW wrote:
Not sure about other's thoughts and maybe shouldn't try to through another horse into the race, but don't overlook Argon 18. From what I can tell with wind tunnel data I can find and what I have seen advertised, take that with a grain of salt. The Argon 18 e-119+ in real world situations is faster that the P5. Plus it comes with some integrated options. Just my 2 cents

For Argon E119+ I've received a different offer from the local distributor. Not for free, but on as he called good conditions (don't know yet what that means).
But the problem with this frame is that it doesn't have integrated storage and hydration. Rear hydration is regular behind the seat cages, and front one is poor BTA system you can buy in a shop.
Although my LBS says it's really well designed for maintenance and adjustments.
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