Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [FLA Jill] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"mashers"
Ian Thorpe - 6'5"
Sun Yang - listed at 6'5"
Grant Hackett - 6'6"

"spinners"
Janet Evans - 5'6"
Laure Manaudou - 5'11"
Brooke Bennett - 5'6"


Mayhaps there is a pattern here? Hmmm...

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Likely to some degree. Back before USA Swimming redesigned their web site and dumped a bunch of old content, they had a nice article from, I think, Jim Montgomery (or maybe it was Johnty Skinner) talking about how to take your height, wingspan, and a few other measurements and then use it as a first attempt for what your optimal stroke count per length should be.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [triswimcoach] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
triswimcoach wrote:

Check out the CrossFit endurance site for more tips on how to train for the swim if you are at this level. Although the workouts are pretty simple, they are effective and efficient as opposed to wasteful, 4,000 yard workouts which are wasting your time that could be spent on the bike or....reading the ST forums. :)

One of the funniest things I've read on ST lately.....thanks for the laughs!

Jay
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Yes,which am I,a troll or just confused? LOL. I am on here because I find swimming technique so interesting.
JasonHalifax says,"I cannot find an accurate description of what TI actually is".Neither could I! I first read the book,then talked to swimmers,one who even went to a TI seminar with Terry.Nobody seemed to know what it was(in simple terms anyway).So I practiced and tried to figure out how it worked.One reason few people do it is few have any idea what it is,lol.To me it is a technique that I have tried to explained a few times on here.The only way to understand it is to DO it.One way to look at it is that in many ways it is the opposite of"catch and pull".It is,as I say,"turn,push and glide".In order for"turn push and glide" to work is they have to THROW themselves into the push and SNAP into the turn and glide.If you do that without practice you will probably be all over the pool.So we have to practice and get the balance and power just right.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [rhayden] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Rhayden,I like your style! The difference between you and others is you understand both styles and have done both and you prefer one,the shorter stroke model.That is great! I have zero problem with that! One thing I observed is that VERY FEW people understand and have tried both methods.I will watch swim classes(of different levels) and VERY FEW teach or are taught the 2 dramaticaly(IMO) different techniques.So no one has a choice.I want to give people the choice.Then they can do whatever they want!
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Boys are taller than girls?






Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Tri-Banter] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Nope. The pattern is that Americans are short, other nationalities are tall. It's obvious!

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [klehner] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
klehner wrote:
In Reply To:
ive got a long way to go before I can swim as fast as my coach who doesn't really train anymore at all.

that would suggest to me that technique is still my major limiter

Im at like 10x100@1:40 he is at infinityx100 at 1:10

heh


<nonsense deleted due to wrong reading>


I thought you must have Haydn Woolley as your coach, until I read how slow your coach is :-)

Haydn hardly swims anymore, but his technique is awesome! he looks like he's gliding along, then you check the clock and find out he's really haulin' ass! He FLIES along, at just 8 strokes per 25 metres!

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Gerry Rodrigues] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
John Flannigan? Sorry, who is that?
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Learn] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Learn wrote:
John Flanagan? Sorry, who is that?

He is usually the first AG'er overall out of the water at Kona in around 46-47 min. Haven't checked 2011's results but he was the fastest age group swimmer for several yrs during 2000-10, and maybe even back in the 90s.


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Barchettaman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Quote from that youtube clip:
"30 hrs a week in the water, 100k a week."

Puts it in perspective.


[ The sign of intelligence is you are constantly wondering. Idiots are always dead sure about every damn thing they are doing in their life. - Vasudev ]
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [planetsbr] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Just to be clear. I didn´t post the Yang video as an example of TI technique. I just thought Yang´s way of swimming 1500m would be more relevant to the discussion than Magnussen´s way of swimming 100m.

It would be good to hear Denis Cotterell´s thoughts on long-distance freestyle technique, he coached Hackett and subsequently Sun Yang.

I absolutely love the way both guys swim BTW.

-------------------------------
´Get the most aero and light bike you can get. With the aero advantage you can be saving minutes and with the weight advantage you can be saving seconds. In a race against the clock both matter.´

BMANX
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [hotman637] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
"fish......don't have any arms! And yet when discussing swimming many people spend a large part of time discussing arms and legs,lol.Fish swim by snapping every muscle in their body in one smooth continous motion

EUREKA! I never thought of it that way. Now we just have to teach fish Chi running and they'll running sub 18 minute 5k's in no time!

Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [squid] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Funny how you should mention running and fish.I not only swim using total immersion swimming I also run using a different running technique,but not Chi running.I use the method that Cliff Young(at age 61) used to win the first race from Melbourne to Sydney.He and I hold our arms down by our hips.It brings your weight down,forward and I come of the front of my foot better.My hands and arms help drive my hips forward.Check out his technique on Youtube.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [hotman637] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hotman637 wrote:
Funny how you should mention running and fish.I not only swim using total immersion swimming I also run using a different running technique,but not Chi running.I use the method that Cliff Young(at age 61) used to win the first race from Melbourne to Sydney.He and I hold our arms down by our hips.It brings your weight down,forward and I come of the front of my foot better.My hands and arms help drive my hips forward.Check out his technique on Youtube.

May I respectfully (genuinely) enquire what your 1500m swim and 10k run times are? Or was that posted?
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
John flannagan has been racing pro. He led andy potts out of the water in his only race in kona as a pro. He was a former pro/elite open water swimmer who retired, then made a comeback when they added the OW 10k to the olympics, and came up a bit shy of a spot on the team at the trials. He was maybe 8th or something. He then went to triathlon.As an AGer he went 47:02 in kona, then 20:55 in clearwater the following month. Then he turned pro...he went 44 at louisville and 48 at coeur d'Alene.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [mattbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mattbk wrote:
John flannagan has been racing pro. He led andy potts out of the water in his only race in kona as a pro. He was a former pro/elite open water swimmer who retired, then made a comeback when they added the OW 10k to the olympics, and came up a bit shy of a spot on the team at the trials. He was maybe 8th or something. He then went to triathlon.As an AGer he went 47:02 in kona, then 20:55 in clearwater the following month. Then he turned pro...he went 44 at louisville and 48 at coeur d'Alene.

OK, well, thanks for the informative post. I knew he was a great swimmer but did not have all the info that you've provided. Going 44 for 3800m is very impressive. Just out of curiosity, how old is he now??? Do you know where he swam in college???


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [ericmulk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Auburn. Heres is an article Alex Kostich wrote for active...

http://m.active.com/..._is_in_Wisconsin.htm
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [Shg101] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Never had them timed.I was swimming using the"catch and pull"method for months and my shoulders were sore and I was slow and did not like it.Then I had to spend months learning TI.I am still not fast but like I TI much better and is so much easier IMO,that is why I posted here to get that message across.I ran a marathon in 5 hours ten minutes,very slow but then started the"Cliff Young shuffle" and is taking awhile to adapt but I think will work better.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [hotman637] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
hotman637 wrote:
Never had them timed.I was swimming using the"catch and pull"method for months and my shoulders were sore and I was slow and did not like it.Then I had to spend months learning TI.I am still not fast but like I TI much better and is so much easier IMO,that is why I posted here to get that message across.I ran a marathon in 5 hours ten minutes,very slow but then started the"Cliff Young shuffle" and is taking awhile to adapt but I think will work better.

Wasn't your original point that TI was fast? The thread was originally about the debate as to whether TI was applicable to both beginners and advanced (faster swimmers). So if you aren't fast after your years of TI study, how exactly are you concluding that it is fast and good for fast swimmers?

As an aside, I too read the TI stuff and enjoyed it for what it was worth. I've since incorporated a lot of non-TI elements in my swimming and am much faster now.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [mattbk] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mattbk wrote:
Auburn. Heres is an article Alex Kostich wrote for active...

http://m.active.com/..._is_in_Wisconsin.htm

Thanks Matt. Those were some pretty impressive workouts he was doing!!!


"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [jbank] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I am slow at swimming,biking AND running,LOL.However I am swimming faster doing TI then I was doing"catch and pull".Total Immersion makes way more sense and everyone should at least learn the basic theory and then apply other concepts if they want,like you did.And as I said it usually takes a lot of practice to get fast.Doing catch and pull if you want to go fast,just swing your arms faster.With Total Immersion to get faster your entire body has to function in one smooth motion,like a fish,lol.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [hotman637] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I admit I know nothing about swimming (been swimming 2 years, last IM 1'12"), but been intrigued by the whole TI vs 'normal swimming'. I've been watching the Sun Yang WR on youtube and listening to the US commentators say how far he stretches, glides, doesn't kick much and drags his legs compared to the main competitors.

Is Yang a "TI" swimmer? He's hip driven, sinks his head under the water when not breathing, glides and apart from the start and his sprint(!) at the end, doesn't kick much (according to the commentators).

Whatever you call it, it's pretty incredible.
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [DieTryin'] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Dietryin',I think you have answered your own question!And the answer sounds like yes,although others on here have said he is not"textbook" Total Immersion.But to me the big question is not if some world class swimmer is TI or not but does the average person understand TI and apply it to his or her swim technique.Just about everyone I have shown Total Immersion to and THEY HAVE TRIED IT(most of the faster"catch and pull" people won't really try it,I guess they don't want to re-learn their technique),say it is WAY easier! It IS way easier in my opinion and that has a lot more benefit to your average person then the pro because the pro is a WAY better athlete and he will go fast no matter what technique he uses.(And the average person will go slower then the pro no matter what technique HE OR SHE USES TOO,lol)
Quote Reply
Re: Terry Laughlin from Total Immersion in a fascinating debate on BT [hotman637] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
So... reading your posts has been quite humorous. You keep saying TI is the most efficient, but I don't think you know what the word means. Efficient means achieving maximum productivity with minimum wasted effort or expense. Where is the "maximum productivity"? You equate TI to aerobars. Aerobars are not about making things easy. They are about going faster. They are not for causual riding where you can soft pedal without the wind bothering you and your ability to smell the flowers on a scenic tour. You say TI is necessary because water is 100's of times thicker than air. This means every time you TI glide, you have 100's of the times of the force of air acting against you to stop you. When you ride a bike you can stop pedaling while at speed for moments and not loose too much speed. Imagine stopping pedaling and trying to coast if you were riding under water, or stomping one pedal and coasting, then stomping the other and so on. Imagine water being denser and more viscous. What if you were swimming in caramel like that candy bar commercial? This would be 1000's of times thicker than water, which is "100's of times thicker than air". Would TI be even more relevant in this situation? You say Sun Yang is swimming TI and making it easier and more efficient. You think this guy isn't in extreme amounts of pain while breaking records and winning races? He is pulling hard and getting in sufficient kicking to drive his hips. I am sure he is on the verge of vomiting the whole 14:34... And please stop using "lol" at the end of every sentence...unless you are a 4th grade girl, in which case carry on...
Quote Reply

Prev Next