Teach me to win a road race ...

Jan 26, 15 6:11

Post #1 of 90 (8246 views)

I'm signed up for my first road race in a couple weeks our Cat 5 race is 25 miles - 3 loops. I'm looking for some tips so I can have a shot at competing. By the end of the summer I'll have my 10+ races and look to be Cat 4.

First off, I know I don't need to win initially. My handling skills are good - I ride comfortably in hard groups often and will do the newbie technical training intro before the first race. I've read up lots on here. I'm riding up to 200mi / week, mostly hard.

About my riding... Our hard group rides each week is treated as a quasi-race with a couple big sprint points. I can keep up with the pack and on the longer climbs have a shot at winning, but if anyone is close to me at the end I always get beat. Looking at Coggan's max power output by weight charts, my 5min, FTP and 60min ratios are in the Good / Very Good range (about 5.0, 4.1 and 3.5 respectively). My 5 second and 1 minute are considered untrained (10.1 / 6.1 respectively). I'm a spinner - prefer rpm's 85-90+. My fatigue profiles are in the average / above average range in all levels. This largely reflects my training for LD triathlons over the past few years so the results aren't completely surprising. Also, in my annual physicals during pulmonary testing, Dr. always notes that my lung capacity is very low.

Two questions...
* If you had a similar power profile, how would you race? Stick in the pack, wait until a few minutes out (5 mins?) and then go for a break and see how long I can go? Are there any other options?
* How much time would you be focusing on building neuromuscular and AC power? Is it helpful for Grand Fonda / IM races? Or, continue focusing on FTP?

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:19

Post #2 of 90 (8225 views)

I think you are overthinking it. I did the same thing before my first road race. Why not just go race, try to stay safe, and see what it's all about?

Congrats for signing up for your first race. I bet you love it.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [Orbilius] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:22

Post #3 of 90 (8212 views)

Probably =)

Any workouts you've started to prepare you for road races, that you didn't do previously?

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:24

Post #4 of 90 (8204 views)

Yea. Ride with a group of Cat2s and work like hell not to get spit out the back at every acceleration. For me, it wasn't the average speed or power that got me, but the bursts with short recovery that did me in at first. I still struggle with that but it gets better with practice.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:25

Post #5 of 90 (8201 views)

Suck wheel at the front and stay within top 10 if at all possible until the end.

Sprint your azz off during the finale of the last lap.

Win.

_____________________________________________
Rick, "Retired" hobbyist athlete
Trying to come back slowly from acute A-Fib

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:27

Post #6 of 90 (8192 views)

first race I wouldn't worry about where I finish, just that I do. maybe after the first lap you could read the wind and try to put the group in the gutter somewhere and hope to get a small break. i find creating a break in the middle of the race helps me podium since I don't like to get in the mix of the mob sprints at the end shoving elbows at 30-40mph for a $35 payout. much easier to make the guys who can out sprint me work a little harder in a break.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:28

Post #7 of 90 (8192 views)

Stay out of the wind. Do not do any work no matter what. Stay covered till the very end and hop on a wheel on the final jump, being sure to leave it all out there.

Good luck.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:32

Post #8 of 90 (8181 views)

Totally over thinking it, and after you do your 10 races you'll look back at your initial post and go "wow, I was over thinking that!". Its cool that you're over thinking it though b/c that means you're excited to race!

Ride near the front of the group, follow wheels, wait until the last 1/3 of the race and if you still feel good feel free to follow wheels off the front of the field if attacks go. Mostly the best recommendation for a new roadie in training is to just race as much as you possibly can. That will be worth more than any specific workout as it will offer 1) race specific training and 2) teach you the non-fitness component of road racing (strategy and such).

The #1 difference between hard group rides and races is that in hard group rides its often protocol to race to the top of every little climb and a successful hard group ride is when you are never dropped on those climbs. In an actual race the idea is to often go as slow as you can up every little climb (saving as much energy as you can) without actually getting dropped so you are as fresh as possible when the moment of truth happens, often near the end of the race. I know that in the early season I'm so used to the "hard group ride mentality" of the preseason that I have to remind myself to stop racing up climbs at mile 5!!

---------------------------------------------------------------
http://cyclussports.com/ - #ZeroPositive #CyclusSports
http://app.strava.com/athletes/355549
https://twitter.com/ryanAjoyce

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [Daremo] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:36

Post #9 of 90 (8162 views)

Your very first race, or races, should not be met with the mindset of "how or what can I do to win". That's what the race is for. It's like chess. You're told the rules at first, you play the game with little to no experience of the game...maybe you've watched someone play or maybe you were just explained how the knight and the bishop are different. You play that first game moving the pieces and learning every second. More often than not, you lose that first game but you want to turn right around and play again. It's a process of making a mistake and learning from that mistake.

Cycling is exactly the same. As a triathlete you have the jump on probably 80% of the guys out there. You have a good bit of fitness and most cat 5 racers don't.

My advice for whatever it is worth, go out there and have some fun. If you're not having any fun then you are missing the point. Learn what you can or cannot get away with. Maybe go in with a game plan and try to execute it. However, another bit of advice...plans rarely ever go accordingly. I'd say 1% of the time, a plan actually works as it should.

Have fun and keep the rubber side down!

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:45

Post #10 of 90 (8131 views)

I won two Cat 5 races last year on my way to upgrading to a 4, so I know a little, but also know that I know nothing compared to upper Cat guys. One win was from a two man break where I correctly forced the other guy lead me out and jumped him at about 100m. The other was from a ~10 man break, where I jumped from the back of the group at a bit over 200m. In both cases, what mattered most was being in the right position and second the <1min power with a good jump to get that initial gap. I'd agree that your 5 second and 1 minute need work. I'd concentrate on improving those if you want to win. Consider workouts like sets of 10-15 1min intervals (with either 1 on/1 off or 1on/2off). On your group rides, work on being the one who comes around at the sprints instead of the one who has guys coming around you.

Good luck.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [109er] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:47

Post #11 of 90 (8120 views)

So many responses saying the same thing. Thanks guys... I think my plan will be to go out there and have fun, try to stay out of the mess, don't wreck and see how I go for a bit.

Out of curiosity, do any of you frequent races have a similar power profile to me? I have to think I'm an anomaly but not sure..

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 6:54

Post #12 of 90 (8097 views)

Kick some butt!

As for the power profile question, I do not.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [aidanlynch] [ In reply to ]

Scooter Pickles

Jan 26, 15 7:02

Post #13 of 90 (8073 views)

aidanlynch wrote:

Totally over thinking it, and after you do your 10 races you'll look back at your initial post and go "wow, I was over thinking that!". Its cool that you're over thinking it though b/c that means you're excited to race!

Ride near the front of the group, follow wheels, wait until the last 1/3 of the race and if you still feel good feel free to follow wheels off the front of the field if attacks go. Mostly the best recommendation for a new roadie in training is to just race as much as you possibly can. That will be worth more than any specific workout as it will offer 1) race specific training and 2) teach you the non-fitness component of road racing (strategy and such).

This x100

It took me some time to learn that in bike racing the guy that crosses the finish line first wins, not the guy who can dump the most watts or the guy who has the highest FTP.

That came with race experience. The few RRs that I've competed in were laughably slow compared to the "fast" group rides that I do (which include an occasional pro and lots of Cat 2s and 3s), all attacks were covered (Cat 5s are notorious for chasing everything down), and finished with mass sprints.

Just be near the front when the break happens and use the fitness that you do have to get out in front. The guys who have won the races I've done were total non-factors until the end, quiet, hid from the wind the entire race, and at the moment of truth were in a good spot.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [jbank] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 7:05

Post #14 of 90 (8060 views)

You say your FTP and 60 minute ratios are different. Those should be the same.

Your power profile sounds about like average cat 4 if your FTP is 3.5 watts/kg, good cat 3 if it is 4 w/kg

Either way plenty of people will be around that are that strong, or stronger, cat 3/4/5

No idea if you have a sprint or not. Wouldn't worry about that yet either. Just try not to crash in the first 10 races. Then you will have more of a clue about how you might win. Hell you never know, I am 100% sprinter power profile but my first good result was a breakaway, just because the heavens opened up and presented a perfect opportunity one day.

don't crash

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [Scooter Pickles] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 7:07

Post #15 of 90 (8049 views)

I remember one cat 4 race in particular where I was up front all day attacking and covering attacks, feeling all fast and racery and stuff.

Then in the final 5k about 10 dudes roll up to the front who I had not seen ALL day.

I immediately knew I was stupid.

Scooter Pickles wrote:

The guys who have won the races I've done were total non-factors until the end, quiet, hid from the wind the entire race, and at the moment of truth were in a good spot.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 7:22

Post #16 of 90 (8009 views)

I always thought this article on road racing was pretty good.

The ideal would be for you to group up with the other good FTP guys to work together to split the field. But in Cat 5 that basically never happens because no one knows each other very well. . It's usually 50 guys who think they can win by drafting all day then sprinting out of the last turn. So everything stays bunched up like a group ride. Everyone's been told "never take a pull" so no one takes a pull. Except maybe 5 guys who make hero moves that go nowhere. Occasionally there's an elite mountain biker, triathlete, or plain physiological freak who can just ride away from everyone.

My advice is don't be afraid to experiment a little, as long as you don't think you're risking getting spit out the back. If you're moving to the front, take a moderate 3-4 second pull. It probably won't kill you to take a pull every couple of minutes. You'll gain the respect of other riders if you do a bit of work. While you're up there watch the other guys. If it comes down to a field sprint, identify a guy who appears safe and strong and usually in the top 10, and try to get on his wheel.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 7:30

Post #17 of 90 (7989 views)

If you wanna win a bike race, the first rule is "Never stick your nose in the wind unless there is a compelling strategic reason to do it." Otherwise, follow wheels. Need to move up in the field? Wait until another guy starts moving up and follow his wheel. Pace seem "too slow"? Don't worry, someone else will go to the front and pick it up. Never stick your nose in the wind unless you absolutely have to.

If you wanna learn how to bike race, forget rule #1. Wink

Wink

Attack, counter-attack, pull the group, generally ride like a bozo (in terms of tactics). You'll quickly learn (by getting you arse kicked) what NOT to do and how others respond to it. Plus it is great training.

Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [jackmott] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 7:53

Post #18 of 90 (7928 views)

jackmott wrote:

I remember one cat 4 race in particular where I was up front all day attacking and covering attacks, feeling all fast and racery and stuff.

Then in the final 5k about 10 dudes roll up to the front who I had not seen ALL day.

I immediately knew I was stupid.

On the other hand I was in a Cat 3 road race where one junior kid kept on attacking every 3-4 minutes. He failed ~10 times. Everyone was laughing at him. On his next attack, 5 miles out from the finish, I felt antsy so thought I'd tag along because I know my odds in a field sprint are close to zero.

The field never saw us again.

And of course the kid annihilated me in the match sprint, because 40 year-old ex-triathlete.

The kid seemed really stupid at first. But I think he was smart. He was just waiting for the right person to come with him. I was the right guy - TT specialist - and he used me to win the race.

Last edited by: trail: Jan 26, 15 7:55

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 9:05

Post #19 of 90 (7826 views)

trail wrote:

On the other hand I was in a Cat 3 road race where one junior kid kept on attacking every 3-4 minutes. He failed ~10 times. Everyone was laughing at him. On his next attack, 5 miles out from the finish, I felt antsy so thought I'd tag along because I know my odds in a field sprint are close to zero.

The field never saw us again.

And of course the kid annihilated me in the match sprint, because 40 year-old ex-triathlete.

The kid seemed really stupid at first. But I think he was smart. He was just waiting for the right person to come with him. I was the right guy - TT specialist - and he used me to win the race.

I've seen young guys that can attack continuously.... and still win the damn race. These are the guys you want to try and follow and help for sure! My best road race finish ever is 6th place... I'd love to follow a wheel to 2nd place. :-)

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [trail] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 9:09

Post #20 of 90 (7817 views)

All tactics are correct, for somebody.
Attacking over and over is not correct for me, haha.

trail wrote:

jackmott wrote:

I remember one cat 4 race in particular where I was up front all day attacking and covering attacks, feeling all fast and racery and stuff.

Then in the final 5k about 10 dudes roll up to the front who I had not seen ALL day.

I immediately knew I was stupid.

On the other hand I was in a Cat 3 road race where one junior kid kept on attacking every 3-4 minutes. He failed ~10 times. Everyone was laughing at him. On his next attack, 5 miles out from the finish, I felt antsy so thought I'd tag along because I know my odds in a field sprint are close to zero.

The field never saw us again.

And of course the kid annihilated me in the match sprint, because 40 year-old ex-triathlete.

The kid seemed really stupid at first. But I think he was smart. He was just waiting for the right person to come with him. I was the right guy - TT specialist - and he used me to win the race.

Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter

Last edited by: jackmott: Jan 26, 15 9:09

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [NordicSkier] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 9:15

Post #21 of 90 (7788 views)

NordicSkier wrote:

trail wrote:

On the other hand I was in a Cat 3 road race where one junior kid kept on attacking every 3-4 minutes. He failed ~10 times. Everyone was laughing at him. On his next attack, 5 miles out from the finish, I felt antsy so thought I'd tag along because I know my odds in a field sprint are close to zero.

The field never saw us again.

And of course the kid annihilated me in the match sprint, because 40 year-old ex-triathlete.

The kid seemed really stupid at first. But I think he was smart. He was just waiting for the right person to come with him. I was the right guy - TT specialist - and he used me to win the race.

I've seen young guys that can attack continuously.... and still win the damn race. These are the guys you want to try and follow and help for sure! My best road race finish ever is 6th place... I'd love to follow a wheel to 2nd place. :-)

The other thing to remember is that in cat. 4 or 5 road races there are guys who are on the fast track to being cat. 1's or 2's and are probably considerably stronger than 95% of the field.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [ThisIsIt] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 9:43

Post #22 of 90 (7734 views)

ThisIsIt wrote:

The other thing to remember is that in cat. 4 or 5 road races there are guys who are on the fast track to being cat. 1's or 2's and are probably considerably stronger than 95% of the field.

This. And, as a bonus, don't be surprised, as I was in my first non-crit road race, when all of those guys throw the hammer down at the gun for the first few miles and just shred the field as quickly as they can.

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 9:44

Post #23 of 90 (7729 views)

1. Don't over think it. Don't think about winning.

2. Go with the flow, but do not go to the front.

3. Ignore the numbers from the PM or the HRM - they are more or less irrelevant WHILE racing - helpful afterwards in review.

4. As an extension of #3, you really have only one task, NO MATTER WHAT, you have to stay on the wheel in front of you.

5. Try to avoid being in the back 1/3 of larger groups - better to always been in the front 1/3

6. Wait, wait wait for the sprint, if you are feeling good at this point have a go at it. If not, SAFELY get out of the way

7. Keep the rubber side down.

8. Have fun.

9. #8 may be hard as there is sometimes lots of yelling. They yell, so you'll hear what they are saying to you the FIRST time and right away, and, they want to be able to go to work on Monday! :)

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Last edited by: Fleck: Jan 26, 15 9:46

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [Koz] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 9:47

Post #24 of 90 (7712 views)

Ha. This was going to be my plan for the first race to see how I go. Good thing there's 2 races in the first day for Cat 5ers so I can try both ways!

Re: Teach me to win a road race ... [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]

Jan 26, 15 9:57

Post #25 of 90 (7678 views)

If I remember correctly - Mark Cavendish's figures weren't anything special. If British Cycling had gone purely on that - he might not have made it.

Have a good race.

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.