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TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks....
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Well the actual ITT might be a bit of an anti climax, but on ST we should love all the gear right? Or we can pick apart the teams with crap set ups which might be more fun. Between spottings of flapping skinsuits, round water bottles, some team invariably using slow rubber or crap aero wheels and then tiny 5'5" riders on 172.5 cranks we should have the full spectrum of ST non approvals.

Aside from that, who wants to predict what? Based on some of Tony Martin's ITT breakaway forays in the last 7 days I think he is the man to beat on Saturday. He's timed his "training" perfectly hammering in some breakaways and having "recovery days" in the mountains relative to the GC guys. One major problem for Tony is a short and steep 100m vertical climb over ~1K (see profile below).

The stage profile appears to be reasonably "twisty" that some bike handling should come into play:



Here is the profile:





In terms of the GC guys I just expect to see the exact same GC with Uran and Bardet trading spots in the top 4 and things just spread further apart between all of them by the finish line. In the white jersey race, will be interesting to see where Yates and Meintjes end up but the gap is too wide for the South African. Finally I am curious to see what Barguil can pull off. Will be interesting to see how much of a potential GC hope this guy can be in the future or if he lets the bruised, beaten and battered Contador pass him. If Aru is still feeling off, Dan Martin could move into the top 5....let's see.

As things stand, Froome's lead on Bardet and Uran is less than what it was after the 14 km of racing in Dusseldorf....we could have just skipped the 19 days in between and just flown everyone to Marseille for a second TT (if you guys recall, some of us were saying the TdF was over for the Froome chasers after day 1....largely that's the case except we had some really good entertainment along the way....thank you Aru, Uran, Barguil, Contador, Bardet)

1FROOME CHRISTOPHER1TEAM SKY83H 26' 55'' 2BARDET ROMAIN11AG2R LA MONDIALE83H 27' 18''+ 00' 23''3URAN RIGOBERTO188CANNONDALE DRAPAC PROFESSIONAL CYCLING TEAM83H 27' 24''+ 00' 29''4LANDA MIKEL6TEAM SKY83H 28' 31''+ 01' 36''5ARU FABIO51ASTANA PRO TEAM83H 28' 50''+ 01' 55''6MARTIN DANIEL105QUICK - STEP FLOORS83H 29' 51''+ 02' 56''7YATES SIMON89ORICA - SCOTT83H 31' 41''+ 04' 46''8MEINTJES LOUIS61UAE TEAM EMIRATES83H 33' 47''+ 06' 52''9BARGUIL WARREN143TEAM SUNWEB83H 35' 17''+ 08' 22''10CONTADOR ALBERTO31TREK - SEGAFREDO83H 35' 29''+ 08' 34''
Really, my "moment of the TdF" was Uran escaping the Mont du Chat descent, getting his bike banged up by a falling Martin, staying upright and then staying in the chase, having the Mavic dude hanging out of the car on the run in to Chambery, giving Uran a 53x11 and a 39x11 and giving him a push back onto Froome, Fuglsang, Aru and then having these guys pull in both Bardet and Barguil and then Uran taking the sprint with the 53x11. That Mavic guy saved Uran's TdF, and kudos to him grinding it out on effectively a 53x11 single speed.

What was your favourite moment?

Thanks to all of you playing along over these last 3 weeks. Not as good as being in France but with some of you actually in France and sharing your insight, including Marcag from the Astana bus, you can't ask for much more while in the office or home!
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Nowt wrong with long cranks...

Hoping Tony Martin will smash it. Froome using the crap yellow skinsuit will make things a tiny bit more interesting, but he'll still put time into Bardet and Uran.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
Nowt wrong with long cranks...

Hoping Tony Martin will smash it. Froome using the crap yellow skinsuit will make things a tiny bit more interesting, but he'll still put time into Bardet and Uran.

Can someone break into the Sky bus and steal Landa's Castelli suit, paint it green tonite, slap a Cannondale logo on it, and stuff Uran into that thing before tomorrow morning? Other than that, can Kileyay, ship Cannondale a green painted Cervelo P5 from his aero bike A2 smackdown and get it on the Fedex to Marseilles ASAP. Is the Cannondale TT bike a really slow parachute?
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I figure Froome's crap skinsuit should cancel out how much of a pig the Slice is. I did see that Cannondale are using Mavic tubeless tires on low pressure. If they're anything like their other tires (and not rebranded Contis or something), then he may end up in a hedge.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed, Froome will have to wear the crappy race sponsor skin suit. I think it's going to be close.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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EnderWiggan wrote:
Agreed, Froome will have to wear the crappy race sponsor skin suit. I think it's going to be close.

Uran appeared to have the worst TT of the GC guys on stage 1 losing >50s to Froome and around 10 seconds to Bardet, Contador, Aru. Only Landa was worse than him by a few seconds. But 3 weeks later, he seems to be riding quite strong on the flats.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
EnderWiggan wrote:
Agreed, Froome will have to wear the crappy race sponsor skin suit. I think it's going to be close.


Uran appeared to have the worst TT of the GC guys on stage 1 losing >50s to Froome and around 10 seconds to Bardet, Contador, Aru. Only Landa was worse than him by a few seconds. But 3 weeks later, he seems to be riding quite strong on the flats.
There was something wrong with his handlebars according to the UCI so they made him swap bikes last minute that wouldn't have helped and in those conditions hard to pick form as I am sure some riders were a lot bolder than others aka Valverde knowing it's the first day of a three week race. He has won tt's and beaten Froome in grand tours before. Hard to see him getting the time but should be close to Froome's tt time.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Just one corner too fast while staring down at the stem for Froome and things could get very interesting very fast. Mechanical? Flat? Bad bivalve at dinner tonight? It's just too close not to pay attention. Froome will probably win. But not *certainly*.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [giorgitd] [ In reply to ]
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Agreed it's been that type of tour with Porte and especially the green jersey so we'll wait and see...
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Grill wrote:
Nowt wrong with long cranks...

Hoping Tony Martin will smash it. Froome using the crap yellow skinsuit will make things a tiny bit more interesting, but he'll still put time into Bardet and Uran.


Can someone break into the Sky bus and steal Landa's Castelli suit, paint it green tonite, slap a Cannondale logo on it, and stuff Uran into that thing before tomorrow morning? Other than that, can Kileyay, ship Cannondale a green painted Cervelo P5 from his aero bike A2 smackdown and get it on the Fedex to Marseilles ASAP. Is the Cannondale TT bike a really slow parachute?

I saw the Cannondale disc TT bike about two weeks ago at a triathlon in Lake Zurich Illinois (just northwest of Chicago). A SRAM rep was racing on it. It had the hydro levers. The frame itself "looked" fast to me and that's coming from a guy who knew the last slice was going to be comparatively "slow" the first time I saw the downtube. That said, the SRAM hydro levers are almost certainly a liability and, IMO, disc brakes are still a liability when you factor in the rotors and the additional spokes necessitated.

Looking forward to see Tony Martin throw down tomorrow (keep your eye out for the Zipp 858 up front!).
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
EnderWiggan wrote:
Agreed, Froome will have to wear the crappy race sponsor skin suit. I think it's going to be close.


Uran appeared to have the worst TT of the GC guys on stage 1 losing >50s to Froome and around 10 seconds to Bardet, Contador, Aru. Only Landa was worse than him by a few seconds. But 3 weeks later, he seems to be riding quite strong on the flats.
There was something wrong with his handlebars according to the UCI so they made him swap bikes last minute that wouldn't have helped and in those conditions hard to pick form as I am sure some riders were a lot bolder than others aka Valverde knowing it's the first day of a three week race. He has won tt's and beaten Froome in grand tours before. Hard to see him getting the time but should be close to Froome's tt time.

Agreed, uran may not beat Froome tomorrow but he's capable of far more than what he showed on stage 1. Rode super conservative on stage 1.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [Karl.n] [ In reply to ]
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Also, listening to the stages podcast. If it's close, apparently they'll race the last day? I thought it was over for gc on the day before champs.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [Grill] [ In reply to ]
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Grill wrote:
I figure Froome's crap skinsuit should cancel out how much of a pig the Slice is. I did see that Cannondale are using Mavic tubeless tires on low pressure. If they're anything like their other tires (and not rebranded Contis or something), then he may end up in a hedge.

I am not so sure the Slice is the aero turd people think it is. If I remember correctly, it tested quite close to the P5 and Canyon in the Tour Magazine windtunnel testing. Whether POC makes a decent skinsuit is anther matter. They started their clothing line this year, so they are probably way behind on that aspect. POC helmet is probably not the best choice.

I really don't think it will make much difference. Though I hope Uran does well, I just haven't seen him ride a decent TT in the last 2 or 3 years. I think it will be close with Bardet.

It would be nice to see Martin turn in a good TT, but it would be really cool to see Phinney ride well. I have to admit that I am surprised he finished the Tour given his limited racing the last few years.

My prediction is Martin, Froome, Roglic.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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EnderWiggan wrote:
Also, listening to the stages podcast. If it's close, apparently they'll race the last day? I thought it was over for gc on the day before champs.

Now that is interesting....but seriously, how could they possibly create any time gap on the champs when the sprinter teams will be going full throttle?
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
I really don't think it will make much difference. Though I hope Uran does well, I just haven't seen him ride a decent TT in the last 2 or 3 years. I think it will be close with Bardet.

It would be nice to see Martin turn in a good TT, but it would be really cool to see Phinney ride well. I have to admit that I am surprised he finished the Tour given his limited racing the last few years.

My prediction is Martin, Froome, Roglic.
I think Uran will do well enough to overtake Bardet.

Hoping for a good result from Phinney, but not sure he can deliver.

Agree on your top 3 for tomorrow's stage.

"Human existence is based upon two pillars: Compassion and knowledge. Compassion without knowledge is ineffective; Knowledge without compassion is inhuman." Victor Weisskopf.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Disappointed in you Dev. I expected you to have listed the start times for the GC contenders and riders of interest. Slacker.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [logella] [ In reply to ]
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I can't find the actual start times anywhere. Can you point me to it?


Froome has won zero stages and his best stage finish was 3rd (three times) at this TdF:

http://www.letour.com/...ome-christopher.html

Aru, Bardet, Uran have won stages. The only other in the top ten with a stage win is Barguil with 2. Sky's only stage win was Thomas on the first ITT.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:
Grill wrote:
I figure Froome's crap skinsuit should cancel out how much of a pig the Slice is. I did see that Cannondale are using Mavic tubeless tires on low pressure. If they're anything like their other tires (and not rebranded Contis or something), then he may end up in a hedge.


I am not so sure the Slice is the aero turd people think it is. If I remember correctly, it tested quite close to the P5 and Canyon in the Tour Magazine windtunnel testing. Whether POC makes a decent skinsuit is anther matter. They started their clothing line this year, so they are probably way behind on that aspect. POC helmet is probably not the best choice.

I really don't think it will make much difference. Though I hope Uran does well, I just haven't seen him ride a decent TT in the last 2 or 3 years. I think it will be close with Bardet.

It would be nice to see Martin turn in a good TT, but it would be really cool to see Phinney ride well. I have to admit that I am surprised he finished the Tour given his limited racing the last few years.

My prediction is Martin, Froome, Roglic.

Do you happen to remember what month that tunnel test was done in? I'd like to track that issue down and look at the tunnel report.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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Issue is the stage itself has no teeth to actually mount an gap. There will be no cross winds, there will be hungry sprint teams absolutely fighting in the end.

Now if it's say an 2s gap, you will see more attention to "racing" from sky and not the drinking champaign 2 hrs into the stage. But this stage just really won't allow any time changes. It's the same for every flat stage. Flat stages you only lose time for extreme circumstances. Flat tire 10k from finish, cross wind 50k from finish etc.

So I'm shocked on stages podcast they would say they could race the final stage.


Even a 2s gap, no way 2nd GC guy out sprints the sprinters to win on time bonus (assuming stage finish has time bonuses).

Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II
Last edited by: B_Doughtie: Jul 21, 17 20:30
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [GreenPlease] [ In reply to ]
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GreenPlease wrote:
grumpier.mike wrote:
Grill wrote:
I figure Froome's crap skinsuit should cancel out how much of a pig the Slice is. I did see that Cannondale are using Mavic tubeless tires on low pressure. If they're anything like their other tires (and not rebranded Contis or something), then he may end up in a hedge.


I am not so sure the Slice is the aero turd people think it is. If I remember correctly, it tested quite close to the P5 and Canyon in the Tour Magazine windtunnel testing. Whether POC makes a decent skinsuit is anther matter. They started their clothing line this year, so they are probably way behind on that aspect. POC helmet is probably not the best choice.

I really don't think it will make much difference. Though I hope Uran does well, I just haven't seen him ride a decent TT in the last 2 or 3 years. I think it will be close with Bardet.

It would be nice to see Martin turn in a good TT, but it would be really cool to see Phinney ride well. I have to admit that I am surprised he finished the Tour given his limited racing the last few years.

My prediction is Martin, Froome, Roglic.


Do you happen to remember what month that tunnel test was done in? I'd like to track that issue down and look at the tunnel report.


I get to the article through the Aeroweenie website, but I think this is correcthttp://www.tour-magazin.de/...1320819/1161475.html[\url]
Last edited by: grumpier.mike: Jul 21, 17 21:59
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks! That's the best test of that Slice I've seen!
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [EnderWiggan] [ In reply to ]
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EnderWiggan wrote:
Agreed, Froome will have to wear the crappy race sponsor skin suit. I think it's going to be close.

Boardman said if it were him he'd be wearing an undersuit with the bumps which would show through the skinsuit.

Sky will have known Froome would be wearing the provided skin suit months ago so wouldn't surprise me in the slightest if they do this: they've had plenty of time to test/make and implement this.

Marginal gains and all that.

No idea why lots if people are bigging up Uran's TT ability, probably just to build some excitement: only thing that stops Froome is a major crash.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [B_Doughtie] [ In reply to ]
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B_Doughtie wrote:
Issue is the stage itself has no teeth to actually mount an gap. There will be no cross winds, there will be hungry sprint teams absolutely fighting in the end.

Now if it's say an 2s gap, you will see more attention to "racing" from sky and not the drinking champaign 2 hrs into the stage. But this stage just really won't allow any time changes. It's the same for every flat stage. Flat stages you only lose time for extreme circumstances. Flat tire 10k from finish, cross wind 50k from finish etc.

So I'm shocked on stages podcast they would say they could race the final stage.


Even a 2s gap, no way 2nd GC guy out sprints the sprinters to win on time bonus (assuming stage finish has time bonuses).

If they are within say, 5 seconds of each other (1,2 or 3) it might be on. THere is an intermediate sprint at 63.5km which has points and possibly (I can't read it anywhere) time bonuses. Agree that the GC guys have really no chance beating the sprinters for the stage win but the intermediate could be interesting. Might see some team-time-trials unfold while they're handing the champagne flutes around!

Imagine if its windy and somehow Cannondate or AG2R work with Katusha, BMC and Lotto Soudal (no stage wins yet) to start forcing echelons? Unlikely but if there are literally seconds to play with.....
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [logella] [ In reply to ]
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logella wrote:
Disappointed in you Dev. I expected you to have listed the start times for the GC contenders and riders of interest. Slacker.

Tour de France 2017: stage one time trial start times (all times CEST)
Riders to watch

31 Stephen Cummings (GBr) Dimension Data 14:20:00
54 Vasil Kiryienka (Blr) Team Sky 14:43:00
67 Tony Martin (Ger) Katusha-Alpecin 14:56:00
88 Stefan Küng (Sui) BMC Racing Team 15:17:00
108 Jonathan Castroviejo (Esp) Movistar Team 15:37:00
110 Michal Kwiatkowski (Pol) Team Sky 15:39:00
130 Primoz Roglic (Slo) Team LottoNl-Jumbo 15:59:00
158 Alberto Contador (Esp) Trek-Segafredo 16:46:00
159 Warren Barguil (Fra) Team Sunweb 16:48:00
160 Louis Meintjes (RSA) UAE Team Emirates 16:50:00
161 Simon Yates (GBr) Orica-Scott 16:52:00
162 Daniel Martin (Irl) Quick-Step Floors 16:54:00
163 Fabio Aru (Ita) Astana Pro Team 16:56:00
164 Mikel Landa (Esp) Team Sky 16:58:00
165 Rigoberto Uran (Col) Cannondale-Drapac 17:00:00
166 Romain Bardet (Fra) AG2R La Mondiale 17:02:00
167 Christopher Froome (GBr) Team Sky 17:04:00

Read more at http://www.cyclingweekly.com/...#O3wwIm4BfpmKG07u.99

Genetics load the gun, lifestyle pulls the trigger.
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Re: TdF 20: ITT flappy skinsuits, round water bottles, slow tires, long cranks.... [moonmonkey02] [ In reply to ]
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Didn't Froome ride a TT in his Sky suit instead of the sponsored one a few years ago? And/or Sky had their own yellow suit with sponsor logos made up instead of using the standard issue one? Not sure what the rules are but I would expect them to explore every option to not have him riding in anything but an optimised suit.
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