You need before and after pictures from the same angle and in the same clothes. Its hard to tell anything about the changes from the videos posted. As far as going faster, work on putting out more power.

It looks like your elbows are really far apart. Moving mine to a really narrow arm position helped me a lot.

Second - this is a beef I have with almost every single garage-fit picture or video - I can almost guarantee your gaze is predominantly up the road when actually TTing, vs almost straight down in these videos. Some people can alternate between a super-aero-looking-down position and looking up the road, but most people spend most of the time looking up the road a bit.

So it's hard to guess what you're really doing with your head. But once your elbows are narrow, try to tuck your shoulders behind your ears and relax your neck to drop your head down a bit.

And I'm veering into guesswork now, but you could maybe move your seat forward a centimeter or so and get a bit lower in the front without going to an extreme hip angle.

But the elbows are the big one. My eyeball windtunnel sees like 30.62 seconds per 40K in the wide arm stance.

The extensions are as close together as they can go.

I'll move the seat to the fwd position (it is slammed in the rear position). I have an adjustable stem on and have all the spacers pulled on currently so can't get lower without moving the stem down.

And, yes I look up in TTs. I have Javelin that sits flush with back.

Consider new bars then. The single most significant change I ever made in equipment was going from Profile Design Cobra T2+ bars to HED Corsair. Faster overnight, mostly because of the type of position it allows.

Of course there are plenty of bars other than HED that allow that. You want to approach this in terms of front-end narrowness. Elbows close together. Forearms nearly touching. Shoulders nearly inside the earflaps of the helmet.

Ugh, I'm using Cobra T2.

So, for example these: http://www.ebay.com/...1:g:ub8AAOSwx6pYtIZ8

What I think I am seeing are the same limitations (stem impeding narrowness)...


Added these: http://www.ebay.com/...e=STRK%3AMEBIDX%3AIT

Again, not sure how adjustable they are but I can get the extensions touching for super narrow then that's the direction I'm moving.

SELL SELL SELL! Seriously I went from mediocre Cat 3 to second place in P12 in my district, with no increase in power. Some of that was a frame difference, but I chalk most of it up to the bar change.

You have a P4. Get bars worthy of that frame.

:) I have decent power at 61kg so help me go from shite Cat 3 (which I am in TTs) to less than shite.

Can you comment on those bars above?

Ventus is another option, again, even though I've been on the forum for years I have no idea how adjustable either iteration of that product was/is.

I'm hesitant to say much with zero experience with either. But the HEDs look really wide and not very adjustable.

The 3Ts have a good all-around reputation for adjustability, and may be good.

O.k... Corsairs are very expensive.

I'd like to fix this. I guess I have research and shopping experience ahead of me.

Zipp alumina

I've heard good things about the Felt Bayonet 3 Alloy bar, which is inexpensive, quite adjustable, and allegedly very fast.

Can we have a sticky for how to take a position video? This shouldn't be that hard for people to figure out but apparently it is.

Full kit (helmet, skinsuit), video level, camera as far away as possible (zoom in if necessary), ~top tube height, perpendicular, front lit, look up the road, try to simulate how you actually ride when tired. Front view too if possible.

Since what you really want is speed, list your equipment. Power output in TT vs climbing. CdA if you have it, and if you have a PM you can get it.

New bars aren't going to solve your problem. I'm sure of that.

 

Here we go:

Equipment: Wheelbuilder disc cover, Zipp 440 front (Conti 4000s tub front, 4000s clincer rear). Current cockpit: Shimano Pro Synop, Cobra T2+ extensions- replacing this with 3T Mistral and extensions.

TT Power output: from that pic last weekend 261w for flat TT over 30min duration.

Climbing Power output: 295-310 over same duration.

CdA: Don't know.

PM: Have data going back to '07 in TrainingPeaks. Use a G3 Powertap for the TT bike. Have a Stages on road bike.

Weight: 135-37

I agree bars aren't going to address this. My thoughts are: Move seat to fwd position on post, go fwd on saddle, drop the last spacer out, raise seat post (if needed) to maintain open hip angle. Move extensions in to get more narrow front end.

butyl front does not help, number not attached to you does not help

you only have one spacer left on there?

I personally don't think the hands bent down like that helps either. the wide looking elbows from previous likely(I say likely as not always the case) not helping either

how long was that TT? was it at elevation?

edit: for a tt , your head is too high unless you were checking conditions up the road briefly during this one pic

I did have one spacer in there, it was big one.

Last March I had Shingles. Couldn't really ride for about a month. Needed to use the TT bike for a short TT in a stage race and found I was so incredibly weak on it- couldn't generate power, couldn't hold the position, etc. that I needed to get it higher just to go from point a to point b.

So, that brings us to this winter. I got back in the gym and back on the bike (on the trainer); I felt good on it before this TT but was really worried about pulling the spacer out- typically I have all of them out fwiw.

The TT was at sea level.

Wide elbow: They are far wider than they could be relative to more adjustable cockpits. I hope the Mistrals get me super narrow.

small bit of caution in regards to the narrowness. (and all changes in general)

It works great if you are like TM and it pulls everything in tight and compact. It doesn't do that for everyone however, some people it flares the back/shoulders and actually widens your frontal area.
In general you want to get narrower in the front, not necessarily make the front narrower. It's a small distinction, but an important one.

YMMV of course. The bathroom mirror test does an "ok" job of letting you see how different widths effect your frontal area.

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pic of fat guy 30+lbs on you and shorter see head is lower

for some reason I cannot understand how when some folks try to go narrower they cant do it. (a case of not experiencing it so not understanding it) if you are sitting in a chair and shrug your shoulders(ie bring them up toward your ears) that is essentially all I do, albeit bent over on a bike

Equipment is decent but I'd put a 20mm Supersonic on the front and a Corsa Speed on the back. Latex tubes.

A 16% loss of power is pretty big considering how high your position is. Any thoughts on why you produce so much less power? How do you feel? For decent aero, you need to get a lot lower or really narrow. Or both.

Is your race power/speed posted on Strava or somewhere? Could get a fair guess of CdA from that.

Don't raise your saddle, that's heading in the wrong direction for aero. You need to get comfortable with bending over and closing your hip angle. Make your torso horizontal. Work on posture and relaxing into the position as much as possible. I'm guessing you have poor posture and are accustomed to heavily bracing with your back which doesn't work when you bend over. You'll basically need to learn a new pedal stroke, but it isn't as hard as it sounds. Focus on form first and when that "clicks" then you can worry about pedal force. It will pay dividends for other racing situations where you are not climbing.

Re Power: I can and have produced that same power with that last spacer pulled out on the P4. Still, as you rightly point out, it is a wide delta.

Reasons: I don't really race TTs much. When I did race them frequently the delta was narrow. I went from doing TTs 2-3x/week (we had local club TTs plus weekend races) a few years ago to almost nothing, again, trying to get healthy last year for road racing took precedence and that brings me to an attempt to aggressively address a weakness now.

Tires: I love the Supersonic and have used them in the past. However, this wheel has a new tub glued on and does double duty for some RR. I can look into an 808 for dedicated TTs and glue up Supersonic.

Saddle height: O.k. thanks. In that last video I did with spacer pulled out, more fwd and saddle dropped I felt really good. I do need to run through some intervals to make sure it is do-able, I believe it can be.

I had your wheels reversed in my head. The front rim is narrow, correct?

If you need to meet UCI rules, then make sure your extensions are as far out as you can have. If not, then maybe going even farther will help.

Get an adjustable (and long) stem, and drop your bars a lot (at least 5cm), until your back looks horizontal. Elbows together. Keep your TT bike on the trainer and ride it every day. Not hard, work on form only. Spin. Identify where you are holding tension and focus on relaxing, particularly in your lower torso and back. You are going to need to hold tension in the shoulders to a degree to keep them "shrugged" but IME extra reach makes this easier. Everything else should be relaxed. Think narrow and low.

When you get that part, then work on increasing force while maintaining form. Refinement of position comes later.

Obviously this isn't the ideal time to do this (winter would be best), but hopefully it won't take you that long to adapt.

Front rim is narrow, yes. Rear is narrow too but clincher.

I don't need to worry about UCI regs.