Swimming Benchmarking

Aug 4, 15 9:04

Post #1 of 77 (5083 views)

Adult swimmer here.

What is your perceived equivalent of a 7:30/mile running pace (I'm at altitude) in swimming time/100m?

I'm referring to difficulty and quality.

To cruise along at 7:30/mile pace (at altitude w/some elevation changes) puts you in a certain category of the population. It's not very impressive to serious runners and kids on XC teams, but the reality is that not many people in your office and in the general adult population (as a % of the total) could do this. Running at a 7:30 pace in a big race, like the Bolder Boulder, puts you in the top 2k or 3k out of 50,000 entrants. With moderate athletic ability it's not very hard to get to the 7:30 cruising pace. You don't have to log a ton of mileage or intense speed-work, if any. To get down into the sub 7:00 cruising pace requires a more serious commitment.

I have a pretty good feel for running pace per mile, but no feel for swimming pace per 100m. And of course, that's thrown off when you get into a yards pool.

I'm asking for opinions and thoughts. This is not a scientific question.

2:00/100m
1:45
1:30
1:20
1:10
1:00

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:07

Post #2 of 77 (5073 views)

1:30

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:08

Post #3 of 77 (5068 views)

jaretj wrote:

1:30

meters or yards? just to confirm

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:11

Post #4 of 77 (5059 views)

Meters

Just my $.02

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:13

Post #5 of 77 (5050 views)

jaretj wrote:

Meters

Just my $.02

Thank you. That's exactly what I'm asking for, everyone's $0.02.

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:14

Post #6 of 77 (5042 views)

I would say 1:30 as well (in yards).

My reasoning - 1:40 is too slow, 1:20 is too fast (unless you grew up a fish!).

"Don't you have to go be stupid somewhere else?"..."Not until 4!"

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [abrown] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:20

Post #7 of 77 (5024 views)

abrown wrote:

I would say 1:30 as well (in yards).

My reasoning - 1:40 is too slow, 1:20 is too fast (unless you grew up a fish!).

This is what I was kind of thinking, 1:35/100Y is like 7:30/mile.

1:20/100Y (and especially M) definitely seems much faster than 7:30/mile running. Go out on a jogging path a lots of guys are running 7:30 pace or better. To me, there are very few lap swimmers that I've ever seen (as a % of total) swimming 1:20 pace and lower.

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:22

Post #8 of 77 (5015 views)

Jason80134 wrote:

jaretj wrote:

Meters

Just my $.02

Thank you. That's exactly what I'm asking for, everyone's $0.02.

I would go with 1:30 in yards. Here's the logic

7:30/mile is about a 45min 10k
1:30/100y is about a 25min 1650yd / or 1500m swim

I would bet there are more people going sub 45 in an Oly run than sub 25 in the swim.
Now that 1:30/100y in a pool is about a 25min OWS with wetsuit.

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [marcag] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:30

Post #9 of 77 (5002 views)

marcag wrote:

Jason80134 wrote:

jaretj wrote:

Meters

Just my $.02

Thank you. That's exactly what I'm asking for, everyone's $0.02.

I would go with 1:30 in yards. Here's the logic

7:30/mile is about a 45min 10k
1:30/100y is about a 25min 1650yd / or 1500m swim

I would bet there are more people going sub 45 in an Oly run than sub 25 in the swim.
Now that 1:30/100y in a pool is about a 25min OWS with wetsuit.

I like that. It makes sense to me.
To take your idea further I could do some statistical analysis on oly swim and run times, medians, percentiles, averages, etc. A 45 minute 10k puts you @ X percentile on the run. What is that same X percentile on the swim? Of course, there is the issue of the run coming at the end of a triathlon vs. beginning for a swim. But probably close enough.

Last edited by: Jason80134: Aug 4, 15 9:36

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [jaretj] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 9:44

Post #10 of 77 (4964 views)

jaretj wrote:

Meters

Just my $.02

To an experienced runner 7:30 is no big deal
To an experienced swimmer a 1:20 is no big deal

I said 1:30 took make all the non swimmers feel better

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:16

Post #11 of 77 (4909 views)

Here are interesting actual figures pulled from Boulder Peak Triathlon 2015 results

A male run time of 46:30 for a 7:29/mile pace placed this person 106 out of 388 male finishers for the run split.

I found a roughly equivalent ranking of 104 out of 388 male finishers for the swim split. That swim time was 28:17 or 1:54/100m

So, using this logic a 7:29/mile is roughly equivalent (as equivalency is defined) to a 1:54/100M.

Thoughts? Is that bogus?

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:28

Post #12 of 77 (4881 views)

Jason80134 wrote:

Here are interesting actual figures pulled from Boulder Peak Triathlon 2015 results

A male run time of 46:30 for a 7:29/mile pace placed this person 106 out of 388 male finishers for the run split.

I found a roughly equivalent ranking of 104 out of 388 male finishers for the swim split. That swim time was 28:17 or 1:54/100m

So, using this logic a 7:29/mile is roughly equivalent (as equivalency is defined) to a 1:54/100M.

Thoughts? Is that bogus?

Tri courses can be notoriously short or long, and wetsuits, currents, and drafting/swimming straight also are factors. Hard to use race avges for an equivalency measure.

I agree with the 1:30 pool swim in yards.

I average about 1:20ish in short course meters and am regularly FOP, top 5 overall out of the water on my swim legs. I run between 7:00-8:00 depending on the distance and course, and that seems to put me firmly MOP overall.

---------------------

"Whether you believe you can or you can't, you are right."

Last edited by: Ga Tri Coach: Aug 4, 15 10:29

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:37

Post #13 of 77 (4865 views)

I can maintain 7:30 pace for about 3 miles, tops (I'm a really bad runner). Doing the math, that's about 22:30 for 3 miles. Rounding that to the nearest standard swim race distance, the closest equivalent would be the 1500. I haven't done a 1500 recently, but based on my 800 time (9:34, or a bit under 1:12 / 100) , I can safely say that I can hold 1:15's or slightly better for the 1500.

So, based on my highly scientific equivalency scale, 7:30/mile pace on the run is equivalent to 1:15 per 100m pace in the pool.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Ga Tri Coach] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:38

Post #14 of 77 (4862 views)

Roger that.

FYI, the Boulder swim course is in a lake/res so there is zero current. Can't comment on accurate distance, although I would be surprised if not accurate at this particular course, straight as an arrow out and back. This tri is typically wetsuit legal so that's even more of an argument that 1:30 equivalent is too fast of a swimming time.

Put it this way, a 1:30/100m swim ranks you MUCH higher in the swim than a 7:30/mile time ranking in the run.

Specifically, someone swam a 22:03 swim split, which is 1:29/100M. That placed him 12 of 388. That's compared to a 7:29/mile pace which placed someone else at 106/388 on the run split. That's not even close.

Last edited by: Jason80134: Aug 4, 15 10:40

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:42

Post #15 of 77 (4844 views)

JasoninHalifax wrote:

I can maintain 7:30 pace for about 3 miles, tops (I'm a really bad runner). Doing the math, that's about 22:30 for 3 miles. Rounding that to the nearest standard swim race distance, the closest equivalent would be the 1500. I haven't done a 1500 recently, but based on my 800 time (9:34, or a bit under 1:12 / 100) , I can safely say that I can hold 1:15's or slightly better for the 1500.

So, based on my highly scientific equivalency scale, 7:30/mile pace on the run is equivalent to 1:15 per 100m pace in the pool.

So, if you're in a race, how close are your swim rankings and run rankings?

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:42

Post #16 of 77 (4841 views)

Jason80134 wrote:

Here are interesting actual figures pulled from Boulder Peak Triathlon 2015 results

A male run time of 46:30 for a 7:29/mile pace placed this person 106 out of 388 male finishers for the run split.

I found a roughly equivalent ranking of 104 out of 388 male finishers for the swim split. That swim time was 28:17 or 1:54/100m

So, using this logic a 7:29/mile is roughly equivalent (as equivalency is defined) to a 1:54/100M.

Thoughts? Is that bogus?

Don't confuse this forum with facts and sound logic like this. You will inevitably get lots of responses that will make you feel like swimming slower than 1:20/100m is bottom of the barrel. Only elites post here.

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:44

Post #17 of 77 (4835 views)

Dunno. I haven't raced a tri in years.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:50

Post #18 of 77 (4814 views)

JasoninHalifax wrote:

Dunno. I haven't raced a tri in years.

Can you please find an oly race this weekend and do it? I need your data. Much appreciated.

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:52

Post #19 of 77 (4809 views)

Will you pay for my back surgery on Monday?

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [drooggie] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:56

Post #20 of 77 (4797 views)

drooggie wrote:

Jason80134 wrote:

Here are interesting actual figures pulled from Boulder Peak Triathlon 2015 results

A male run time of 46:30 for a 7:29/mile pace placed this person 106 out of 388 male finishers for the run split.

I found a roughly equivalent ranking of 104 out of 388 male finishers for the swim split. That swim time was 28:17 or 1:54/100m

So, using this logic a 7:29/mile is roughly equivalent (as equivalency is defined) to a 1:54/100M.

Thoughts? Is that bogus?

Don't confuse this forum with facts and sound logic like this. You will inevitably get lots of responses that will make you feel like swimming slower than 1:20/100m is bottom of the barrel. Only elites post here.

Yeah, I feel that if you are swimming laps in the local pool at 1:20 you are a damn good swimmer, someone who was either on a swim squad when they were young or someone who has put in big yardage as an adult. If you're out on the street running 7:30/minute miles you are a dime a dozen. I don't think the average, relatively athletic Joe has to lay down massive amounts of miles to get to a 7:30 steady pace.

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:57

Post #21 of 77 (4790 views)

I think a sub 7:00 500 is about the same as clicking off 7:30's for a 5 or 10k. That is about a 1:25/100yd pace.

A 7:00 500 is pretty bad for a real swimmer, much as a 7:30 mile is pretty bad for anyone who claims to be a real runner. Do either in many high school meets and you are on the borderline of getting the pity clap when you finish. But, for adults recreating, both are pretty decent times.

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [Jason80134] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:57

Post #22 of 77 (4789 views)

A common conversion we used to use is x4 swim distance for ballpark run conversion, which is 1:52 /100m pace, or ~ 1:43/100yds

------------------------------------------------------------
some days you're the windshield some days the bug

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [JasoninHalifax] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 10:57

Post #23 of 77 (4788 views)

JasoninHalifax wrote:

Will you pay for my back surgery on Monday?

Send your bill to Obama. He lives at 1600 Pen in DC. :)

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [rdmyers] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 11:01

Post #24 of 77 (4780 views)

rdmyers wrote:

A common conversion we used to use is x4 swim distance for ballpark run conversion, which is 1:52 /100m pace, or ~ 1:43/100yds

This...

I can't fathom doing 1:52 pace, that's painfully slow. but then a decent runner won't call what I do "running" either.

Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Re: Swimming Benchmarking [drooggie] [ In reply to ]

Aug 4, 15 11:17

Post #25 of 77 (4751 views)

drooggie wrote:

Jason80134 wrote:

Here are interesting actual figures pulled from Boulder Peak Triathlon 2015 results

A male run time of 46:30 for a 7:29/mile pace placed this person 106 out of 388 male finishers for the run split.

I found a roughly equivalent ranking of 104 out of 388 male finishers for the swim split. That swim time was 28:17 or 1:54/100m

So, using this logic a 7:29/mile is roughly equivalent (as equivalency is defined) to a 1:54/100M.

Thoughts? Is that bogus?

Don't confuse this forum with facts and sound logic like this. You will inevitably get lots of responses that will make you feel like swimming slower than 1:20/100m is bottom of the barrel. Only elites post here.

I'm nowhere near elite in swimming or running. It's just that more people here are familiar with running than swimming that skews the mindset into thinking that 1:30 per 100M is fast.

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