That is horrible.

Do I detect a slight backdoor brag on the part of Constantine? I think I do.


In any case, sounds like tragic circumstances. The swim leg should never be taken lightly.

Backdoor brag? I don't think so. He was talking to a reporter - trying to explain what happened. I was in the same wave - very disturbing and a lot of serious concern by those who were there...

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Remember Luddites are people too...

Very sorry to hear that as well. That's two so far this year in Florida. A man of a similar age died during the swim at HITS Naples this January.

Do I detect a dildo.....I do, and its you ---> JayZ... Someone died today, and you are trying to call someone out for a backdoor brag?????

Your post is so bush league.

Really terrible. I had the same exact thing happen to me in a tiny 50+ wave in a lagoon a few years ago at the historic Newport Beach triathlon. I think just a 500yd swim in complete flat conditions. Just tightens the theory that these are mostly cardiac events and not drownings. And even a off the front swimmer like i was and am in that age bracket, i now take a lot of extra cautions when doing swim and triathlon events. This can happen to anyone at anytime if all the stars align in a really bad direction.

People die every day. I was trying to inject some levity in a very tragic situation. Feel free to ignore it if you're offended.

damn

Fair enough , but it's a small community, and very recent.
Perhaps it would be thoughtful to delete the comment and respect those closer to it than us.....?
Just a thought.
All the best
Mark.

"People die every day." Really? Sorry but this is just so cold. I think we all know that people die every day. But when it is your loved one, your friend is this your mantra?
Oh, and by the way trying to inject levity into a death the day of the death might be a bit premature.
Especially when it is a sudden unexpected event. . . well never mind.
I really think if you can't convey compassion, empathy, support, or reassurance then it is just better to say nothing. Post nothing.

I raced in both Naples and Ft Desoto. In Naples the water was definitely rough but the Ft Desoto swim was about as smooth as one could expect from open water and the age waves were reasonably small.

Not at all insinuating that this was the case here because I literally know nothing but the age and hometown of the victim but it seems like triathlon as a "bucket-list" event can be pretty dangerous. You've got to think that inexperienced athletes throwing on a chest constricting wetsuit, heading to a turn buoy with 100s of their closest friends is just a recipe for disaster.

I don't know what the answer is (maybe more first timer races that go off time trial style in a pool?). There were something like 150 first timers yesterday. What's a race director to do?

Another lame comment! The individuals that have passed at athletic events (triathlons, road races) have not been inexperienced athletes who are checking off their bucket list! If one would do the statistics breaking down levels of experience vs death rate, most likely it would be shown that those adequately trained to very experienced would have the highest rates.

There's a belief around athletes that 'it won't happen to me, because I'm sufficiently trained', or the 'death immunity card' due to a high level of physical activity. The truth is we do not know the cause of sudden cardiac death in athletic events with any certainty, we can only make some general suppositions. The most useless general one is that it's untrained bucket listers, who need qualification, OWS certification, EKGs, cardiac stress tests, etc. before they are allowed to compete.

Some further comments on Saturday's swim fatality. The conditions could very well have led to a drowning. There were over 120 starters in the mens 50 and over wave (about 20% of the total field). We started at an angle to the beach, causing a lot of crowding on the way out to the buoy. The water was shallow all the way to the turn, which meant the field didn't string out much with every one just wading. There was a real jam up trying to make the sharp turn around the buoy just where the water got deep (over your head deep!). Also, with a very strong west wind, I thought the chop was pretty bad. I'm mostly a left side breather and, as we swam north, kept getting hit in the face by waves. Breathing was difficult at times. That coupled with the now deep water, a strong current coming right at you and lots of thrashing bodies could have easily caused some to panic. That said, I don't believe there was really anything that could have been done differently to change the, very sad, outcome.

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Remember Luddites are people too...

I can't speak to whether the individual who died was "adequately trained" or not. However, he did not appear to have much experience in the sport which could elevate his stress/heart rate due to anxiety around the swim. I searched the USA Triathlon athlete results and this individual had participated precisely zero sanctioned triathlons previous to this event. It was the same situation for the guy who died in the Naples event earlier this year. It's a tragedy anyway you look at it, but this fellow may have been trained but he was hardly experienced.

I believe you are correct that he had little to no experience. A brief web search suggests he is from Alpena, Michigan with some family ties to the Tampa Bay area. Nothing published in the local paper up there yet, and I could not find any results of any kind for a Donald Bautel on Athlinks. Still, it can happen to anyone. I had a panic attack at IMCDA after several years in the sport. My heart was racing and I thought dying was a real possibility. When I finally got into some clear space I immediately raised my hand for a kayak and took a minute to calm myself. Very scary...never so glad to have come out of the water as I was at that one. I've never had a repeat incident but I am still cautious about the swim and warm-up whenever I am allowed.

Because they shortened the swim distance this was an all out sprint that really stressed you. Plus, the race start was delayed about 25 mins to reset the bouys in the lagoon, and we were the next to last wave. Most folks did not want to warm up in the water because the wind really made it cold when you got out. Below is a photo from the ladies in wave 1 that gives a better view of the water conditions. As tdstegner noted, the M50+ had a 120 men in the water so it was definitely more combative than what you are seeing below. It is sobering anytime there is a swim fatality but much more so when it happens in the same race and same swim wave as you. That it was the day before Easter makes it even more tragic for the family.

No question, this can happen to anyone. Two years ago at Age Group Nationals a guy (50-54) died during the swim. He was in the wave immediately following mine. It's pretty unlikely that guy was a newby if he qualified for the AG national event. But the conditions that day for the swim were awful....worst I've ever been in for a race. There were large three foot rollers coming in off Lake Champlain. I was never really stressed as I was able to just relax and focus on trying to enjoy the ride. But it was a little unnerving because the swells were large by also short and tight so they were constantly rolling over the top of you. I couldn't see a single person in my swim wave because the waves obscured any visibility....from the bottom of the trough all you could see was water. I can see how somebody getting a lung full of water might have totally freaked.

Word to the wise...especially for us older guys since it seems like it's the 50+ group that is dying...if in doubt, don't go in the water!

We need to hear from someone who knew him and his condition, but I suspect being a newby, maybe a bit out of shape, and the conditions noted above are instructive elements of a disaster waiting to happen.

At any rate, this is more sad news about the swim start.

-Robert

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"How wonderful it is that nobody need wait a single moment before starting to improve the world." ~Anne Frank

I like the idea of first time races going off TT style in a pool. Perhaps this could be worked into the notion of racing "categories" (Cat 1, Cat 2, etc) that was proposed here a few days ago. The idea would be that in order to compete in a USAT sanctioned event you'd have to be at least Cat 1 and in order to be Cat 1 you would have to complete an indoor triathlon.

Regarding the guy who died in Naples, he was older and the buzz was that was his first triathlon, first open water swim, etc. I know it can happen to anybody but you have to admit there are quite a few people in their 40s/50s who aren't in the best physical shape who either do a triathlon as a bucket list thing, to show off, or to get into better shape. Now consider the percentage of people who are in their 40s/50s who have some form of atherosclerosis. IMO, these individuals are at a higher risk of drowning or having a heart attack during the swim and RDs/USAT should take this into account both for the welfare of the individual participants and for the good of the sport.

Sad news, for sure. We've already had 2 swim fatalities this year. We're almost certain to have more. Nobody's immune. These recent 2 victims have been middle-aged men, but history tells us that victims have come from nearly every age group and include women as well as men. As others have pointed out above, this problem is not limited to newbies. Very accomplished swimmers have died in water conditions that seem unremarkable.

There's been a lot of discussion in the triathlon community about what to do about this problem. There's no silver bullet. Consider for a moment what YOU can do personally. As we begin this 2014 season, I'd urge every triathlete to tend to a short list of things that only YOU can do:

1. Get a check-up with a focus on heart health. Identify any major medical problems and get sound advice about exercise and triathlon.
2. During training, pay attention to warning signs of hidden heart problems (eg, chest pain/discomfort, unexplained shortness of breath, unexplained fatigue, unexplained light-headedness or blacking out, palpitations).
3. Learn CPR. Ask your family to do the same. All of the survivors of cardiac arrest at triathlons have been tended to by fellow athletes who were trained in CPR.
4. Become a capable swimmer.
5. Practice open water swimming.
6. Choose an event that matches your health, fitness, and preparedness.
7. Develop a race plan for the swim that takes into account your health, fitness, and preparedness.
8. Warm up before the race.
9. Immediately before the race, make an assessment of your safety. Consider the weather and water conditions, the safety resources on hand, and your preparedness. Be willing to decide NOT to participate.
10. During the race, STOP at the first sign of any indication of a medical problem. And be willing to admit that conditions are too much for you.

I don't pretend to have all of the answers, but this is a good start.

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Larry Creswell
http://www.athletesheart.org, @athletesheart

The detailed advice about prep for newbs (and everyone else) is solid, and always is in these sad threads. To my mind, Monty does it all right - and he mentions above that he is thorough and careful about safety (despite being an elite swimmer!). He's always in the water warming up before the gun, and is the example I use with all of my friends who don't have a lot of OWS experience when I try to get them in the water race morning.

One thing I wonder about this race is if the shallow start with lots of running was a factor. I've seen way more stress in running starts than in deep water starts. People tend to calm down if they float around a bit. It would be good to know the stats, if deep water starts have fewer deaths. Anecdotally, I have seen one RD change to deep water starts after having a bunch of freakouts the previous year.

Goodness knows we'd all be better off if every newb had Monty's attitude.

Great advice...making tragic things constructive is helpful to everyone IMHO. Tragedies like this just happen...kind of unavoidable. Last week in Raleigh at the Rock n Roll marathon, two people died (suspected cardiac events). Life can be so unpredictable at times.

Agreed. What we're learning more and more lately is that lifestyle doesn't have a direct causal relationship with heart disease. It can influence it, even affect it, but some people have genes they literally can't outrun. That's one reason it's important to get screened annually, assess risk factors, look at nutrition, HR data - so on and so on like you said.

Very sad news here indeed.

hyperventilating just reading that description...

larry, thank you for your input on this. for those who don't know, larry creswell, is a medical doctor, a cardiac specialist, and chaired USAT's panel on swim deaths in triathlon back when we had, what, 26 or so over 2 years?

larry, while swim deaths do occur all over the spectrum it seems to me to hit the 45+ male community disproportionately higher. you're right that it can happen to beginners and seasoned triathletes alike. i think we have a tendency to want to assign blame, not just to a person but to a cause. he died because of THIS. if THIS didn't happen, he'd be alive today. and i think it's frustrating when we can't find a cause, like an unsolved crime, but it seems to me the folks who die in the swim are probably most often people who were going to die of a heart attack and they probably died in a triathlon because of the stresses, before they did of a heart attack later. but i don't know.

i would like to add this. your list is proper and appropriate and nobody would know better than you. i just think it's 1-sided, that is, it's the stuff that our readers can do. it is my guess that ironman is the only company that changed its own behavior, as a race organization. there were a pair of co-chairs to this panel if i remember right, another doctor, a psychologist, jeff anders, and jeff's input had to do with controlling anxiety prior to the swim. this, i think, is a shared responsibility, where the athlete and the RD each do what they can to make the swim experience the safest and best it can be. you touch in this with your admonition to warm up. but i don't know how many RDs make accommodation for a warm up and alert people to the warm up area and protocol.

i suspect there's a legal rationale behind throwing it all on the athlete. find me an athlete who should not be racing but is cavalier in his approach, i'll find you an RD who is cavalier about the bad things that might happen at his event. i wish i could see more about what it is an RD could do to make his race safer. i'm not suggesting that this race, this past weekend, had anything lacking in terms of safety, i wasn't there, but in general, i can think of a number of things an RD can do and i would like to see the RDs pushed more to incorporate these addn measures.

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Dan Empfield
aka Slowman