Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month
Quote | Reply
These are kick sets you can add to your swim workouts, and designed with the beginner in mind. Starting at 300 yards and progressing to 1600. I was reading tall swimmer"s story about how he swam really well after being forced to kick only due to upper body injuries. I am familiar with two similar incidents with swimmers I grew up with.

Kicking is cool too, as simply doing it will generally improve it, while the same can't be said for swimming as a whole - at least not to the same degree for most AOS. There is a good bit of variety, speedplay, fins/no fins, different positions, board/no board, etc. No vertical kicking but week 3 gets interesting with some "shoe kicking".

Week 1
Day 1
12 x 25 KICK w/Board on :15 REST
#1-6 with FINS
#7-12 no FINS

(300)


Day 2
WITH FINS, NO KICKBOARD
4 x 25 HARD KICK on :15 REST
1 x 100 ALTernate 25 KICK ON BACK / 25 KICK ON FRONT
REST 2:00

1 x 100 KICK w/BOARD / NO FINS, ALL OUT FOR TIME

REST 1:00


1 x 150 EASY KICK, ALT 25 ON BACK / 25 ON FRONT

(450)


Day 3
WITH FINS
1 X 300 KICK, DONE AS
75 HARD / 25 EASY
50 HARDER / 50 EASY
25 HARDEST / 75 EASY
REST 1:00

NO FINS
12 X 25 KICK ON :15 REST
#1,4,7,10 - ON FRONT
#2,5,8,11 - ON SIDE
#3,6,9,12 - ON BACK

(600)



Week 2
Day 1
WITH FINS
4 X 75 KICK ON :15 REST
ODD - HARD / EASY / HARD BY 25
EVEN - EASY / HARD / EASY BY 25

NO FINS
4 X 50 KICK ON :10 REST
EACH ONE HARDER THAN THE PREVIOUS

WITH FINS
4 X 25 KICK ALL OUT ON :20 REST

1 X 100 EASY KICK ON BACK

(700)


Day 2
WITH FINS
16 X 25 HARD KICK ON :10 REST
ODD - ON BACK
EVEN - ON FRONT

NO FINS
16 X 25 KICK ON :15 REST
ODD - EASY
EVEN - HARD

(800)


Day 3
WITH FINS
1 X 500 KICK DONE AS:
75 HARD / 25 EASY
50 HARD / 50 EASY
25 HARD / 75 EASY
50 HARD / 50 EASY
75 HARD / 25 EASY
REST :30

NO FINS
16 X 25 KICK on :10 REST, MODERATE
#1,5,9,13 - ON FRONT
#2,6,10,14 - ON RIGHT SIDE
#3,7,11,15 - ON LEFT SIDE
#4,8,12,16 - ON BACK

(900)



Week 3
Day 1
NO FINS
10 X 50 KICK ON :15 REST
ODD - HARD / EASY BY THE 25
EVEN - 12.5 HARDER / 12.5 EASIER ON EACH LENGTH

REST 2:00

1 x 100 KICK w/BOARD / NO FINS, ALL OUT FOR TIME

REST 2:00

4 X 100 KICK WITH FINS ON :15 REST
EACH ONE FASTER THAN THE PREVIOUS

(1000)


Day 2
Seriously, you want to learn to kick? Put on some shoes, then take them off. The opposite of fins in terms of effect. Obviously, use a clean pair. Maybe have a pair of shoes dedicated to this purpose. NOT water shoes. Running shoes (with elastic laces) are best, but any slip on/off type will suffice.

KICK 18 x 50 on :10 - :15 REST
1-6 w/FINS
7-12 w/SHOES
12-18 KICK!

REST 1:00
2 x 25 SPRINT KICK with FINS on :20 REST
4 x 25 SPRINT KICK with SHOES on :;20 REST
2 x 25 SPRING KICK, NO TOYS on :20 REST

(1100)


Day 3
Kick 1200 straight. You may vary the intensity, but there is one rule today..... NO STOPPING. (and no fins)
(1200)


Week 4
Day 1
18 x 25 KICK with BOARD & FINS, on variable rest. :25 / :15 /:05 REST after each 1,2,3 That is :25 rest after #1, :15 rest after #2 and a very short :05 rest after #3.... then back to :25 rest for #4, and so on. You can vary the intensity OR hold even pace for these. Each can be challenging.

18 x 25 KICK with BOARD, NO FINS, on variable rest. :25 / :15 /:05 REST after each 1,2,3 That is :25 rest after #1, :15 rest after #2 and a very short :05 rest after #3.... then back to :25 rest for #4, and so on.



REST 2:00

1 x 100 KICK w/BOARD / NO FINS, ALL OUT FOR TIME

REST 1:00

1 x 300 EASY KICK, ALT 25 ON BACK / 25 ON FRONT

(1300)


Day 2
14 x 25 KICK with :05 REST
DESCEND 1-7, 8-14

14 x 25 KICK on :10 REST
ODD - EASY
EVEN - FAST

14 x 25 KICK on :15 REST
ODD - 12.5 FAST / 12.5 EASY
EVEN - 12.5 EASY / 12.5 FAST

14 x 25 SPRINT KICK on :20 REST
1-7 NO FINS
8-14 w/FINS

(1400)


Day 3
3 x 500 KICK on :30 REST
#1 - 25 SPRINT, 75 EASY
#2 - 50 HARD / 50 EASY
#3 - with FINS, 75 HARD / 25 EASY



REST 2:00


1 x 100 KICK w/BOARD / NO FINS, ALL OUT FOR TIME
(1600)
Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Dec 2, 17 21:30
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why are shoes slower than no shoes? Is it just the drag? What above Vibrams?
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Why are fins faster? Physics right. I would guess it has to do with lack of pliability, erosion of proprioception, and absorption/porosity. I would suggest against vibrams, as the 'destruction' of the kick is sort of the goal. Kicking with shoes is something that works to develop proper kicking mechanics, but if you ask me the 'mechanism' I'm gonna shrug it off. I don't really care. Scientists or ex-phys can figure out the whys, or not.
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FindinFreestyle wrote:
Why are fins faster? Physics right. I would guess it has to do with lack of pliability, erosion of proprioception, and absorption/porosity. I would suggest against vibrams, as the 'destruction' of the kick is sort of the goal. Kicking with shoes is something that works to develop proper kicking mechanics, but if you ask me the 'mechanism' I'm gonna shrug it off. I don't really care. Scientists or ex-phys can figure out the whys, or not.

I was thinking about the fins and shoes vs bare feet. Since kicking is not a natural action for humans what we do with our feet when we have nervous system feedback is primarily driven by our reflex reaction on land which is not what we want to do in the water. Conceptually, I think most athletes can "see" what they need to do for kicking, and when they put fins on they have that additional flex beyond the toe and they lose the propioception from the sole of their feet (that likely interferes with proper swim kicking since that proprioception is mainly for use on land). So I can see cutting out that sole based proprioception with shoes on potentially having a positive impact (beyond the drag of the shoes). I will try with shoes today.

Also on your drill you gave the other day, pausing on the 3rd kick, my reflex when I kick down with my left and up with my right is for the right to immediately come back down.....I during the pause it was really hard until I figured out that I had to pause the other leg and hold it up. Furthermore, pausing every third, I barely had enough momentum to keep moving (I don't know how long that pause should be). With fins, no problem pausing every 3rd....without fins, I needed to pause on 5th or 7th to build up speed which gets bled off during the pause....is this all normal?
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
devashish_paul wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
Why are fins faster? Physics right. I would guess it has to do with lack of pliability, erosion of proprioception, and absorption/porosity. I would suggest against vibrams, as the 'destruction' of the kick is sort of the goal. Kicking with shoes is something that works to develop proper kicking mechanics, but if you ask me the 'mechanism' I'm gonna shrug it off. I don't really care. Scientists or ex-phys can figure out the whys, or not.


I was thinking about the fins and shoes vs bare feet. Since kicking is not a natural action for humans what we do with our feet when we have nervous system feedback is primarily driven by our reflex reaction on land which is not what we want to do in the water. Conceptually, I think most athletes can "see" what they need to do for kicking, and when they put fins on they have that additional flex beyond the toe and they lose the propioception from the sole of their feet (that likely interferes with proper swim kicking since that proprioception is mainly for use on land). So I can see cutting out that sole based proprioception with shoes on potentially having a positive impact (beyond the drag of the shoes). I will try with shoes today.

Also on your drill you gave the other day, pausing on the 3rd kick, my reflex when I kick down with my left and up with my right is for the right to immediately come back down.....I during the pause it was really hard until I figured out that I had to pause the other leg and hold it up. Furthermore, pausing every third, I barely had enough momentum to keep moving (I don't know how long that pause should be). With fins, no problem pausing every 3rd....without fins, I needed to pause on 5th or 7th to build up speed which gets bled off during the pause....is this all normal?

3 beat kick with a board is one of the slowest methods I can imagine to propel in the water. Combined with beginning kickers whose flexed feet might send them backwards, it can be problematic for sure. Just keep in mind that it is a rhythm drill, and nothing more. Sorta like the wax-on / wax-off of kicking activities. The pause should be very distinct at first, and can get shorter as you become proficient. Proficiency with beat kicking means you perform the prescribed number of kicks, pause in position, and count the beats in your head. (1,2,3 1,2,3..)

The benefit of 3 beat kicking will become very apparent down the road, once proper finish timing is achieved, and we attempt to apply that timing to 4 and 6 beat kicks. Beat kicking will also get faster, as you are able to reduce the pauses, and as your overall kick form improves.
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I did the 1 leg kicking - 25 each leg and 50 3 beat. I think it took me 5 minutes! But it's getting better. I don't think I can survive your last posted kick work out. Maybe I will give the shoes a try and figure out where I'm going wrong. Thanks for all the help. Appreciate
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Shoe kicking? You're evil!

I wrote this, you should read it:
https://www.slowtwitch.com/...n_Swimming_6700.html
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FindinFreestyle wrote:
Why are fins faster? Physics right. I would guess it has to do with lack of pliability, erosion of proprioception, and absorption/porosity. I would suggest against vibrams, as the 'destruction' of the kick is sort of the goal. Kicking with shoes is something that works to develop proper kicking mechanics, but if you ask me the 'mechanism' I'm gonna shrug it off. I don't really care. Scientists or ex-phys can figure out the whys, or not.

Fins are marginally faster for top swimmers. Coach said to me once "not that much faster" for his top group.
IMO I think fins mean more for the "B" camp (as in me) because:

A: Club Swimmer:
Super high cadence
Nice "whip"/leg action
Sync'd and stamina

B: Triathlete
Low cadence
Stiffer legs, but strong
Questionable sync
Spine, pelvis & body position not conducive to performance kicking

Again imo fins are great for streamlining & creating a stronger back end, they anchor the pull and build ankle flex.

I am working on PT out of the pool and doing kick sets with the club, time based. They do 8 lengths I'll do 4.

I am going to try shoes!

I love kicking - but my pelvis flexor & muscle group can only handle so much at the moment.

Training Tweets: https://twitter.com/Jagersport_com
FM Sports: http://fluidmotionsports.com
Quote Reply
Re: Swim Help - Kick a little extra this month [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
FindinFreestyle wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
Why are fins faster? Physics right. I would guess it has to do with lack of pliability, erosion of proprioception, and absorption/porosity. I would suggest against vibrams, as the 'destruction' of the kick is sort of the goal. Kicking with shoes is something that works to develop proper kicking mechanics, but if you ask me the 'mechanism' I'm gonna shrug it off. I don't really care. Scientists or ex-phys can figure out the whys, or not.


I was thinking about the fins and shoes vs bare feet. Since kicking is not a natural action for humans what we do with our feet when we have nervous system feedback is primarily driven by our reflex reaction on land which is not what we want to do in the water. Conceptually, I think most athletes can "see" what they need to do for kicking, and when they put fins on they have that additional flex beyond the toe and they lose the propioception from the sole of their feet (that likely interferes with proper swim kicking since that proprioception is mainly for use on land). So I can see cutting out that sole based proprioception with shoes on potentially having a positive impact (beyond the drag of the shoes). I will try with shoes today.

Also on your drill you gave the other day, pausing on the 3rd kick, my reflex when I kick down with my left and up with my right is for the right to immediately come back down.....I during the pause it was really hard until I figured out that I had to pause the other leg and hold it up. Furthermore, pausing every third, I barely had enough momentum to keep moving (I don't know how long that pause should be). With fins, no problem pausing every 3rd....without fins, I needed to pause on 5th or 7th to build up speed which gets bled off during the pause....is this all normal?


3 beat kick with a board is one of the slowest methods I can imagine to propel in the water. Combined with beginning kickers whose flexed feet might send them backwards, it can be problematic for sure. Just keep in mind that it is a rhythm drill, and nothing more. Sorta like the wax-on / wax-off of kicking activities. The pause should be very distinct at first, and can get shorter as you become proficient. Proficiency with beat kicking means you perform the prescribed number of kicks, pause in position, and count the beats in your head. (1,2,3 1,2,3..)

The benefit of 3 beat kicking will become very apparent down the road, once proper finish timing is achieved, and we attempt to apply that timing to 4 and 6 beat kicks. Beat kicking will also get faster, as you are able to reduce the pauses, and as your overall kick form improves.

OK, a bit better on the 1-2-pause, 1-2-pause today....it really transfers over well to 2 beat alternate side breathing freestyle.
Quote Reply