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Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat
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I've been getting back into running after a series of complications around disk/nerve items. I will mainly be running on my Woodway treadmill or at the track on soft surface. The less shoe I have on my foot the better my running coordination. The best way I can explain this to the rest of you who have normal feel in your feet, is try to catch a football with bare hands on, thin gloves on or thick mittens on. That's like the diff for me going from vibrams to a New Balance minimus trail to a conventional running shoe. It I put on something like a Newton or Hoka, it's going to feel like I have two sets of mittens on and won't have any feel for where the football is....kind of like that.

The New Balance Minimus Trail seems to be working well on treadmill or track but it really is super firm on pavement. I am hoping to graduate to something with a bit more padding so I can do some more pavement running as the Minimus Trail really is hard on pavement. But I want something that is wide, low drop and good ground connection. Most shoes are not available in EE width.

Just to be clear, I am not planning to do a ton of miles on pavement, but being able to do some would make things convenient when I can't get to my treadmill or track. But most seem to have 8+ mm drop, or they are narrow. Both high drop and narrowness makes things worse!
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Brooks Pureflow. 4mm drop, lots of padding, good amount of room in toe area.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Altra Escalante?

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...s_new_shoe_P6230462/

http://www.runnersworld.com/...look-altra-escalante

https://www.altrarunning.com/...altra%20%2Bescalante

I have a pair purely for recovery from a recent PRP injection to my plantar fascia, and can attest to the wide toe box, zero drop and soft feel.

Scott
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Altra Escalante. This might be the shoe where I end up buying five pairs and not shoe shopping for a few years.

WTB: TriRig Omega SV (not x). PM me if you have one :)
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Saucony Kinvara

Not a racing flat but not hugely padded either.

Just enough cushion to make them usable all the way up to the marathon but still with pretty good "feel" for the pavement.

I find the toe box to be very generous.

4 mm drop.

----------------------------
Jason
None of the secrets of success will work unless you do.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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Topo ST-2
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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What are the disc/nerve issues ?

I was super worried about running at all with my lower back issues but find it isn't so bad on pavement.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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The Skechers GOrun 5 has a 4mm drop, 18mm at the heel. I don't know how wide the toebox is on the current version, as they seem to change a little with each version. I have very wide feet (4E), and the 1 and 3 fit me perfectly, while the 2 was slightly narrow. At least based on the photos, the 5 looks like it might be about the same as the 2 was...

"I'm thinking of a number between 1 and 10, and I don't know why!"
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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5mm drop but looks interesting. I'm thinking of picking up a pair.......

https://www.salming.com/...-green/c-756/p-31378

Team sponsor, but looks nice and the current model I have is awesome.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I use Merrell Bare Access 4 for all my running.
They're extremely light, zero drop, several millimeters of cushioning but still reasonable road feel.
I have very wide feet, pretty high volume. I have to buy most shoes a size too big in order to have enough width and volume but in the Merrells I can actually wear the right size (not true for all Merrells but it is for the original Trail Glove in wide fit and Bare Access which only come in a standard but still work).
These don't seem to be very popular but I love them and have run half marathons and IM in them.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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+1 Brooks Pureflow. 4mm drop, pretty light. Purecadence if you need a bit of support.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I second the Saucony Kinvara.

The Kinvara 8 just came out, so you can find the 7s around on clearance. 4mm drop, generous toe box and its plenty light for both a race and training shoe.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]
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Ai_1 wrote:
I use Merrell Bare Access 4 for all my running.
They're extremely light, zero drop, several millimeters of cushioning but still reasonable road feel.
I have very wide feet, pretty high volume. I have to buy most shoes a size too big in order to have enough width and volume but in the Merrells I can actually wear the right size (not true for all Merrells but it is for the original Trail Glove in wide fit and Bare Access which only come in a standard but still work).
These don't seem to be very popular but I love them and have run half marathons and IM in them.

Thanks for this. I believe the Merrells have a pretty high arch. I should add that one of my other peculiar requirements is flatter arch zone.

A few suggested Kinvara, but I think I need something that is more firm and less of a pillow. I have plenty of other pillow style running mittens in basement. I'll eventually get well enough to use shoes. I think the Alta Escalante will kind of fit into that same category though. Maybe too much sole between ball of foot and the ground? Can someone compare the Brooks Pureflow to some of the older models of the PureConnect. I have a set of 2012 PureConnects that still feel a bit soft and "tippy" relative to the ground contact.

The closer I can get to 6 ounce the better. The "swing weight" of the shoe makes a difference since my doriflex on the recovery phase is still a work in progress.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I've been using pureflows for about 5 years now. I did try the pure connects, and I think they felt a bit narrower.

As for padding, I'd say the pureflows are just as padded, or more padded, than the connects. To me thats a good thing, and they are still fairly light. But if you are looking for -less- padding than connects, then maybe pureflows aren't for you.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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A "Firm Kinvara" you could find in the Saucony Grid Type A series. I still have the Type A4 and it's been a phenomenal shoe. Light, firm and springy, wide forefoot and sockless comfort is a bonus. I see now that Runningwarehouse has newer models on sale, too!

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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I'll also throw out the Kinvara (7 anyway, not sure about the 8). I've seen a few people mention Pureflow, I had a horrible experience with the 5, the insole had grooves underneath that in some way allowed the space between the ball of my right foot and big toes to squeeze and rub into, just mutilated my foot. If you look into the Pure, check the insole first and replace if it's the grooved type.

--------------------------
Hammer Nutrition |
Rudy Project, ask me about 50% off
Altitude Multi Sport
Runners Roost Race Team
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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What stack height range are you looking for? You are apparently my foot twin, and it is quite difficult to find shoes that are wide, low stack, and not just a solid sheet of rubber or overly stiff in the sole (Vivobarefoot, New Balance MT10, New Balance MX20, Inov-8 F-Lite, etc.).

There seem to be plenty of foam+rubber soles in the 18-26mm stack height range, but few in the more minimal 10-16mm range. The old New Balance MR00 in wide was perfect for this, but is discontinued. I'm in the process of trying on a bunch of shoes now. So far the only ones I've found that feel about right are sadly the Vibram Fivefinger V-run shoes (10mm stack). I only wish they didn't look ridiculous. I have a pair of Topo ST2's on their way, which I'm hoping will work, probably with the insole removed (11mm stack) or still in (16mm stack). Another possible shoe would be the Inov-8 Road Talon 240, as they come in their "Standard" fit which seems to be about a 2e (their precision fit is a D width) although they are a bit heavier (8.4oz) and moderate stack (16mm heel, 4mm drop).
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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hi dev -

count me as one more who's been fairly happy with the kinvaras - i've done 3 pair now. found one pair at winners in toronto for about $35!

they're not flats, but definitely light and 4mm drop. i raced a PB in the half marathon in kinvaras, though i'm not sure they'd work at full marathon for me.

good luck and welcome back to the road -

-mike

____________________________________
https://lshtm.academia.edu/MikeCallaghan

http://howtobeswiss.blogspot.ch/
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [mck414] [ In reply to ]
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The PureFlow 4 was a great shoe - I ran my marathon and 50km PBs in them.

You're right about the 5s though, an absolute disaster.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [AdamML] [ In reply to ]
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I have more or less same requirements and after trying several options throughout the last 2 years, I have settled on NB in wide sizes. Both the Zante V2 and Vazee pace V2 in wides sizes work well for me. Better than anything else i have tried incl pure flow, pure cadence, kinvara, merrell's bare access 4 and lots of others. Good luck!
Last edited by: jakesdk: Mar 20, 17 8:53
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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tessar wrote:
A "Firm Kinvara" you could find in the Saucony Grid Type A series. I still have the Type A4 and it's been a phenomenal shoe. Light, firm and springy, wide forefoot and sockless comfort is a bonus. I see now that Runningwarehouse has newer models on sale, too!


Tessar, I was looking at the TypeA because I thought they would be perfect based on my current needs HOWEVER I was told they tend to fit narrow. But you say they are wide. I am willing to give this a try. The more firm the contact with the ground the better for me now. Eventually the feeling will come back in the foot that I can run with more "pillow/mitten" shoes, but that time is not now. Can you confirm if these are as wide as say a Newton Distance or a Brooks Pure Connect, any any of the New Balance in EE?

One thing I should add to this thread. Right now, I have better coordination of my foot if I insert a set of Correct Toes to spread my metatarsels apart, so I need pace for that to add to the flipper nature of my flattish feet!!!

https://www.correcttoes.com/

Basically the correct toes have a vibrams LIKE effect by spreading the toes inside the shoes. So when I run in the NewBalance Minimus Trail, with correct toes, its like running with marginally more padding than Vibrams, but similar feel. I want to keep that feel as I move "slightly more padding"


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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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If you are lucky mayby you can find some of the (discontinued) Minimus 10 Road, or the Minimus 00. My all time favourite running shoe (if you have my size you will have trouble finding pairs I haven't allready snagged ...)
I am currently trying to replace that very shoe, and use Mizuno Ekiden (6mm drop, kind of spongy in comparison (to truly direct shoes - still counts as a racing flat), but still quite pleasant, and Sacony Endorphin Racer II, which however does not have a wide toe box (the Ekiden is not as wide as your NBs, but not really narrow either).
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Tessar, I was looking at the TypeA because I thought they would be perfect based on my current needs HOWEVER I was told they tend to fit narrow. But you say they are wide. I am willing to give this a try. The more firm the contact with the ground the better for me now. Eventually the feeling will come back in the foot that I can run with more "pillow/mitten" shoes, but that time is not now. Can you confirm if these are as wide as say a Newton Distance or a Brooks Pure Connect, any any of the New Balance in EE?

One thing I should add to this thread. Right now, I have better coordination of my foot if I insert a set of Correct Toes to spread my metatarsels apart, so I need pace for that to add to the flipper nature of my flattish feet!!!

https://www.correcttoes.com/

Basically the correct toes have a vibrams LIKE effect by spreading the toes inside the shoes. So when I run in the NewBalance Minimus Trail, with correct toes, its like running with marginally more padding than Vibrams, but similar feel. I want to keep that feel as I move "slightly more padding"


My feet are relatively wide but low-volume (IE, flat). The Type A fits me snug around the heel and rear foot, but fairly broad at the front - no toe constriction. I wear the same size in Newton, Saucony and Brooks and the Type A is at least as wide in the forefoot as the Newton Distance and Elite (if not a bit wider) and definitely wider than the Brooks Launch (can't compare to the Pure, since I last ran in a first-gen Grit and hated it). For the price RW is selling them now it's worth a try I'd say.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [tessar] [ In reply to ]
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tessar wrote:
devashish_paul wrote:
Tessar, I was looking at the TypeA because I thought they would be perfect based on my current needs HOWEVER I was told they tend to fit narrow. But you say they are wide. I am willing to give this a try. The more firm the contact with the ground the better for me now. Eventually the feeling will come back in the foot that I can run with more "pillow/mitten" shoes, but that time is not now. Can you confirm if these are as wide as say a Newton Distance or a Brooks Pure Connect, any any of the New Balance in EE?

One thing I should add to this thread. Right now, I have better coordination of my foot if I insert a set of Correct Toes to spread my metatarsels apart, so I need pace for that to add to the flipper nature of my flattish feet!!!

https://www.correcttoes.com/

Basically the correct toes have a vibrams LIKE effect by spreading the toes inside the shoes. So when I run in the NewBalance Minimus Trail, with correct toes, its like running with marginally more padding than Vibrams, but similar feel. I want to keep that feel as I move "slightly more padding"



My feet are relatively wide but low-volume (IE, flat). The Type A fits me snug around the heel and rear foot, but fairly broad at the front - no toe constriction. I wear the same size in Newton, Saucony and Brooks and the Type A is at least as wide in the forefoot as the Newton Distance and Elite (if not a bit wider) and definitely wider than the Brooks Launch (can't compare to the Pure, since I last ran in a first-gen Grit and hated it). For the price RW is selling them now it's worth a try I'd say.

I'm not sure if the newest version of the Type A is wider than the previous A6, but I race in the A6 and I can tell you it's nowhere near as wide in the toe box as the New Balance Minimus Trail in a standard width nevermind 2E. I have a bunch of NB shoes (Minimus Road & Trail, various versions of Zante & Vazee Pace) in standard width and they are all wider in the forefoot than my A6's. Again, maybe Saucony made the newest version wider but it doesn't appear so from the pics I've seen. Not trying to be argumentative just sharing my experience.
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Re: Suggest a wide high volume toe box zero to 4 mm drop light race flat [Dgconner154] [ In reply to ]
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Fair enough, I spent most of my time in the Type A4. Haven't run much in the A6.

ZONE3 - We Last Longer
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