Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions

May 12, 14 13:58

Post #1 of 120 (22960 views)

Hello everyone,

I want to finish the 2015 Ironman Lake Placid under 10 hours. I'm new to this sport. I've never competed in triathlons. I've been generally training for the
past 3 years(MMA & team sports) and been training around 20-24 hours a week for the past 8 months. My training for the past 8 months consisted of 3 running(Long Slow Distance, Continuous High-intensity Intervals, Intervals) and Swimming(LSD, CHI, INT) workouts. 4 core workouts. 4 calisthenics workouts. 4 strength workouts And many back to back hell sessions (you folks might call it a " break-through training day").

My body responds well to stress and I am confident in myself that I'll be able to finish it under 10 hours. The training process will be both mentally and physically challenging and I'm up for both. Physically, Ironman training will be different than my old style of training but not that much different mentally.
I'll be doing different kinds of races along the way to supplement. I have a lot to improve on in all three sports but within the reasonable reach.

I read the Triathlete's Training Bible and designed a plan accordingly. This periodization plan will have me train around 1000 hours annually. Probably a little bit higher because I designed it conservatively. I've gained a lot of knowledge from this book but I'm still unclear on certain areas, I will address this down below.

Thank you for reading this post. Any advice and suggestions would be helpful. Also If any of you have broken 10 hours then I'll be more than glad to hear your experience on how you did it, training plans, etc...

So my questions are:

1. What are your recommendations on assigning training times for each discipline? Ex) %10 swim, 20% run, 60% bike or %15 swim, 15% run, 60% bike.
Note: Biking is my weakest discipline. Strength is not my limiter though, I just haven't biked much.

2. Is there any websites or books that I can get sample workouts from? Let say for example if it was a muscular endurance day I would like to have options available for muscular endurance workouts.

3. Is there any reliable pre-made training programs that suits my needs? I might be better off going with that than a training program that is made by me(someone who has no experience in this sport)

P.S: this is also posted at http://www.beginnertriathlete.com/

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:15

Post #2 of 120 (22902 views)

From what I remember lake placid is a tough and hilly bike course, which may kill your legs + ruin your ruin if not prepared. 4 strength training sessions a week is quite a bit, you might want to cut out 1-2 strength sessions for adequete rest. Also do realize that 2015 is still quite a long time from now, be careful about injuries!! Most people think "oh it'll never happen to me" or "oh even if it happens i can jump right back on". Injuries can really take you off your game. 20-24 hours is quite a lot, and for most people (95% of the population, my guess) that an over use injury is going to happen before you reach 2015. Especially if you're a new comer.

3. Is there any reliable pre-made training programs that suits my needs? I might be better off going with that than a training program that is made by me(someone who has no experience in this sport)
There are a bunch of programs on training peaks, but they cost quite a lot. Since you have the training bible, just take their concepts and plug it into your own schedule. It'll be much more flexible that way, plus you know your body the most. IMO, most people over emphasize all the small technical stuff in training, but the most important things to keep in mind is
1. doing something everyday (aka consistency)
2. change it up, don't swim/bike/run at the same pace everyday.

I can't answer the first 2 questions.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:23

Post #3 of 120 (22861 views)

10 hour is ambitious. That's a top 5% finish.

Since cycling is your weakest discipline, 60% minimum on the bike. Then maybe 15%, 25% on swim and run until your get you bike fitness improved, then a typical ratio is 50%/30%/20% for bike, run, swim.

Just a crazy thought... but go enter an Olympic Distance triathlon. You should be able to finish under about 2:10.

Sounds like you're spending 1/2 you time in the gym rather than 10% of your time in the gym your 20-24 hours sounds more like 10-14 hours of actual triathlon specific training. Calasthenics? Really? Ummm.... I'd drop that like a bad habit and swim more. Go to 1-2 core workouts a week and 2 strength workouts. I suspect you wya short on aerobic base.... especially since your not biking much. That's where you'll get most of your overall fitness. From hours and hours on the road and the trainer.

My suggestion is get a season under you doing Olympic distance and 70.3 and learn how to go fast first, then you learn how to go long.

Do your research and learn how to train like a cyclist, train like a runner and train like a swimmer.

A "breathrough" workout is a workout with a specific goal or objective with measurable results that you can compare week to week. A example would be a 40 mile ride with 70' at tempo. It's a "breakthrough" if you averaged 250 Watts this week vs. 245 Watts last week on the same course in similar conditions. What you describe is a probably a "brick" workout. There are varying opinion on these. I do them usually once a week, but mostly as a benchmark to see how eneryg levels are and if I have any GI issues after following a nutrition plan. Otherwise, I think when you training at a high volume, most of your runs are on fatigued legs anyway, so every run is a brick.

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:24

Post #4 of 120 (22858 views)

Breaking 10 on that course is a really impressive feat. Only 50-ish people did it last year out of 2,400-ish athetes. That is the really really really pointy end of the curve. Like, easy Kona qual type effort.....and you would be beating some male pros and half of the female pros.

Since you are new to triathlons. Get a plan or a coach and train accordingly. Your genetics and learning curve will have a much bigger impact on your time.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:25

Post #5 of 120 (22854 views)

New to this sport/never done a triathlon/never did an Ironman/Lake Placid and wanting to go under 10hours....

I just have to stop you right there, reduce expectations or you will be severely let down. Good Luck

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [Rest] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:27

Post #6 of 120 (22850 views)

I know my body from previous years of training and I could take 20-24 hour week as long as I get adequate sleep so that wouldn't be a problem. I will definitely be careful about injuries. I will prepare and be ready for that hilly bike course. Thanks for the advice!

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [The Phoenix] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:30

Post #7 of 120 (22838 views)

Yup, and I will prove you wrong.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:31

Post #8 of 120 (22825 views)

Good luck!! (Sounds like someone may have taken a few too many blows to the head in the MMA ring)

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [3Aims] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:32

Post #9 of 120 (22822 views)

That's what I was thinking. Getting a coach would be my best option.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:34

Post #10 of 120 (22814 views)

spearfisherman1 wrote:

Yup, and I will prove you wrong.

Highly doubt it but whatever you need to keep you motivated during training.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:39

Post #11 of 120 (22788 views)

to your comment about "are there any training plans for my needs", I will snarkily say, "why not buy the sub-9 hour plan instead of the sub-10 plan?"

but seriously, need to know a few things.

how old are you

how much do you weight, how tall are you

what is your most recent 5k or 10k or 15k running race PB

what is your current comfortable swim pace per 100?

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Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [The Phoenix] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:40

Post #12 of 120 (22787 views)

and just joined ST today. I certainly wish him well!

David
* Ironman for Life! (Blog) * IM Everyday Hero Video * Daggett Shuler Law *
Disclaimer: I have personal and professional relationships with many athletes, vendors, and organizations in the triathlon world.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [david] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:51

Post #13 of 120 (22758 views)

david wrote:

and just joined ST today. I certainly wish him well!

Lol I like the enthusiasm! But man set some realistic goals...

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:54

Post #14 of 120 (22746 views)

I think you spelled your username wrong. It's phishing, not fishing.

/kj

http://kjmcawesome.tumblr.com/

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 14:55

Post #15 of 120 (22743 views)

spearfisherman1 wrote:

I know my body from previous years of training and I could take 20-24 hour week as long as I get adequate sleep so that wouldn't be a problem. I will definitely be careful about injuries. I will prepare and be ready for that hilly bike course. Thanks for the advice!

Yes, but from your description, you only really doing 12-14 hours of aerobic training, the rest is strength training, calisthenics and core work.

Here's some metrics (lets assume your 5'11" 175lbs muscular...which is a dissadvantage by the way... you may want to lift less and drop some weight)

20-24 hours should be about like this:

250-300 miles per week cycling
45-60 mpw running
15,000-25,000 yards per week swimming

Additionally, some rough minimum benchmarks:
You should be able to run a 5k under 17:30...and do a solid bike workout that afternoon.
1/2 marathon under 1:25...and still be able to hop on a bike and ride a solid 40 miles @ tempo the next day.
FTP of 300W or better.

As mentioned, if you can't do an Olympic under 2:10, you really need to readjust your expectations.

Notice I've never said it wasn't possible. It's doing it within 1 season that's the most ambitious. I think there was a guy went from couch to KQ...but it took 3 years. He clearly had some good genetics, he just didn't know it.

Athleticism in team sports doesn't always translate into athleticism for swimming cycling and running. Hines Ward was an outstanding wide receiver. I think he trainer pretty hard for IM for 9 months, but he was MOP at best. Having great strentght balance and coordination doesn't mean you will have good run economy, make a lot of watts on a bike or swim well.

TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [motoguy128] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:22

Post #16 of 120 (22652 views)

IMO i think maybe even faster than a 2:10 olympic is required for sub 10ironman, but it's around that range. Also once you're able to hit 2;10, it will most likely also require 1-2 more years to build the endurance for a 10 hour race day. If you can do a sub <10 in 2015, and really enjoy the sport + lose some muscle, you can probably turn pro in the near future.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:25

Post #17 of 120 (22635 views)

urious also on what your current 5k-10k run time is. Your 100 repeat time. Have you done a bike tt of any kind?

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:27

Post #18 of 120 (22630 views)

Joe Friel - Your Best Triathlon has a good periodization plan for multiple distances with workouts you can fashion for your ability.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:36

Post #19 of 120 (22596 views)

I did what you are talking about at Placid my first ever time out. Train lots, rest when needed and do Epicman in June, it will tell you right where you can be a month out. In short, it's possible. Good luck and keep us posted!

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 15:38

Post #20 of 120 (22586 views)

My suggestion is to burn the Triathletes Training Bible.
And stop doing core, callisthenics, and strength workouts.

Swim, bike and run more.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [Ktri] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 16:16

Post #21 of 120 (22508 views)

Ktri wrote:

Sounds like someone may have taken a few too many blows to the head in the MMA ring

x2 - great comment and probably all too true!

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 16:42

Post #22 of 120 (22464 views)

He posted the same ? at BT.

My reply:
No offense but what makes you think you can go sub-10 on absolutely no experience? Not saying it can't be done... because it has... but that's usually from some genetic freak who was a former Div 1 swimmer or XC runner or something similar.

Barring being a genetic freak, it's experience and a crapload of hours building a base of endurance. 8 months of S/B/R is building that base but odds are you're way overestimating yourself.

As stated above... can you swim 2.4 miles in 1 hour or less? Can you bike 112 miles in 5 hours or less (after swimming for an hour)? Can you run a marathon in 3:45 or under (after swimming and cycling for six hours already)?

Placid is also a pretty tough course.

Not sure how old you are but here are how many males finished sub-10 at IMLP last year in certain age groups with the second number being the total in the AG:

M18-24 = 0/40 or 0%
M25-29 = 4/126 or 3%
M30-34 = 9/226 or 4%
M35-39 = 11/307 or 3.6%
M40-44 = 8/398 or or 2%
M45-49 = 5/340 or 1.5%

Just sayin'.

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Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [GMAN19030] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 16:52

Post #23 of 120 (22441 views)

Hey GMan! :)

You are spot on. Going sub 10 isn't about mental masturbation, it's about what you can do know and what you can do then, and your benchmarks are pretty much it. Maybe allow for a 1:10 swim but a 3:30 run.

To the poster of this thread. I went from my first tri to my first IM and a 9:43 Kona qualifier at my first IM in Arizona. But I have a Mom who is a previous Kona AG Champion, so there is that..

-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
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Last edited by: Bryancd: May 12, 14 16:56

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [spearfisherman1] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 18:52

Post #24 of 120 (22270 views)

Thanks y'all for the loving responses. Talk is talk though right? It needs to get it done and I will get it done. Then I can talk.

Re: Sub 10 Ironman Training... Questions [Bryancd] [ In reply to ]

May 12, 14 18:55

Post #25 of 120 (22256 views)

Bryancd wrote:

Going sub 10 isn't about mental masturbation

I think this is where the confusion lies. We can all agree that being mentally tough is a piece of excelling at long distance racing but just being mentally tough doesn't mean your body is going to allow you to go that fast for that long on that difficult of a course.

With that being said, I wish the OP the best of luck...great attitude! I hope you reach your goals.

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