I do the best streamline possible off of every turn. When I get tired, I might get a bit loose but if I'm doing tight intervals that's one of the things I make sure I don't get too lazy at as it can cost a lot of time.

As for how far - somewhere around the flags maybe? I haven't really paid close attention.

If my head is up before the flags I tell myself to stay under longer.

Though you can look up videos of salnikov on youtube and see that swimming ridiculously fast doesn't long streamlines necessary.

To your question, I try to stay long off the wall every time, though I am not preoccupied with it.

I was just watching a very good swimmer (well, compared to me..) doing 50SCY's and he streamlined as long as possible it seems. Took him under 20 seconds for the 50.

3-4 fly kicks for me on 50s and 100s. I slack down to 1-2 on 800s.

Under 20s for the 50y is pretty rare. The WR is 18-something. Was this in practice or a high level NCAA competition?

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Streamline until you feel like you are losing momentum from the push off the wall. It's really all about feel as there is no exact answer. I have no idea how far I streamline for normally as I don't really pay attention to it. If I had to guess, its somewhere just past the flags. I also do butterfly kicks off the wall and not a flutter kick.

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blog

When I am trying to swim fast and/or paying attention I consciously recognized each step of the process : 1) push off as hard as I can, 2) glide until acceleration stops, 2) do one hard butterfly kick, 3) break into hard freestyle kick, 4) break the streamline, and 5) start swimming.
I am usually a bit beyond the flags when I come up.

No, just a lunchtime swim session I went to at my local pool. I've seen him around before and today he was practicing starting from the blocks. He's an absolute beast and just fun to watch but swimming in the next lane is straight up depressing. I didn't time him to the split of a second, but it was just under 20s looking at the clock.

I appreciate all of the feedback. I like the details.

That is smoking fast.

I think streamlining is the foundation of good body position & framework for proper stroke mechanics. You can't have a solid catch if you don't have good body position first. You can't have proper entry without good body position. You can't have a symmetrical stroke without good body position.

Every wall of every turn is a chance to practice this & why I think it is important to do flipturns. I can easily, without any kick, get about 1 body length past the flags without losing too much speed. If you are making it to the flags I say great job!

That sounds so amazing that my BS meter is going off.
How tall was he? 6'4" or more?
Is he known to most swimmers by only one name?
Was he shaved and tapered?
This was under 20 seconds for 50 yards?

Even if you are off by a bit; very, very few people go 21 or under just in a workout.

As far as the streamline; in high school our coach assigned us a calculus problem to decide when to begin stroking off the wall.
I've forgotten most of my calculus since then; but the gist was you need to begin your stroke just before your speed drops to your swimming speed.
You should never be faster than when you push off the wall; so use that speed as much to your advantage as possible.

As for me; I strive to get at least my shoulders beyond the flags at all distances that I am swimming - when going well, I am for my feet to the flags.

I'll double check again next time. After watching a couple of his 50's, all i know is that he jumped in at :58 and touched the wall again at about :18, and yes, 50 yards - from blocks back to blocks. I'll ask the lifeguards about him - they know each other well it seems. He was definitely a bigger guy, very nice swimmer build. Once again, making me depressed haha. I'll get more info.

At least to the flags on long aerobic sets, a bit farther on fast sets.

By "streamline" that includes dolphin kicks. 1-2 in an aerobic set, 3-4 in a sprint set. 6-8 in an easy technique set.

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Swimming Workout of the Day:

Favourite Swim Sets:

2020 National Masters Champion - M50-54 - 50m Butterfly

Shitty turns should get your head out to the flags via streamline. Good turns should get your waist or feet out to the flags, each and every time. Good streamlined body position is the same as good swim position. Start each of your laps off for success.

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Take a short break from ST and read my blog:
http://tri-banter.blogspot.com/

I have wondered this too, but then thought, "What's the point? There is no wall to push off ever 25/50m in a lake." So for me, I do not focus on this that much and figure I should get as close to open water simulation as I can in a pool. Although, I still flip turn because I feel that more closely approximates breathing patterns than stopping at the wall which lends itself to catching my breath . . . too, flip turns are fun.

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From Chicago to Sydney . . . soooo Sydney_Grant

You streamline until you decelerate to your swimming speed. So how far is optimal is a function of how much speed you can generate off the wall and how long you can hold on to your speed (ie. how much you can get minimize drag). If you throw in dolphin kicks there is a whole set of techniques with that too.

If you are a competitive swimmer, streamlining off the turns (and starts) occupies a level of seriousness akin to what a serious triathlete would put into getting themselves and their bike aero. It is a huge part of pool racing speed and critical to going faster since as much as 20% of any swimming race can be spent in this non swimming phase. Lots of focus it put on this. Basically serious swimmers work on this on virtually every single turn they do in practice.

For your average lap swimmer, not so much since they are generally not training to race in a pool. However, it is worth working on as it will make your times more consistent if you have consistent turns and a good streamline does get you into a much better swimming rhythm as you grind out a workout. Plus, it looks cool to go farther off the turns.

Oh my gosh... my stroke count finally makes sense, lol

Thanks very much. I want to swim like a swimmer. For many reasons.

I've watched a number of guys swimming that are clearly triathletes and they are effective, strong, relentless and powerful. But SO lacking in grace and smoothness, especially when you watch a "real" swimmer. So clean, so fluid. Long streamlines seem to be a hallmark of the guys who grew up in the swim squads. Looks to be half of the effort for the same or faster speeds. That's my goal.

Depends on the stroke, but at least to the flags.

My masters coach picks a theme for each weeks practices. This week happens to be streamlining off the wall. Last night he had us practicing doing a few dolphin kicks off the wall, breaking the surface with your off arm before taking a breath.

I swam competitively growing up through high school. I try to focus on streamlining off every wall, but i'm not as good at it as some people. My kick isnt that great.

One guy on my team get 3/4 of the length of the 25 yard pool when he pushes off to do breast stroke.

Taut body position and it does translate to open water. It is how your body should be all the time. I don't think anyone who cannot efficiently push off he walk can beat Jason in a 3800 ow swim.

Weaker swimmers tend to surface and start swimming straight away because they're deprived of oxygen and need to breathe, so it's probably more of a conditioning issue.

Bravo, Jason, for wanting to swim like a swimmer. Grace and smoothness can be acquired by the adult-onset swimmer if he/she is willing to work at it. Next time you're getting ready to swim and you notice a really smooth swimmer already in the pool, just watch his/her stroke quietly (i.e., don't talk to anyone) for maybe 5 minutes and try to absorb it, to feel it, really feel it, then get in and try to swim with that same rhythm. I think not paying attention to the way the good swimmers swim is one of the cardinal mistakes most AOS make. I see it pretty regularly: they just come into the pool all in a hurry to get their 1500 in and get out ASAP, and they never pay any attention to the way any other swimmers swim.

Regarding the streamlining, without even dolphin kicking, you should be able to get out to about 1.5 to 2 yd past the flags, i.e. 6.5-7 yd off the wall if your flags are 5 yds out. If you've got the air to do 2-3 kicks, you could get out to 8-9 yds.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

I disagree. The deficiency shows itself on the first push off the wall prior to any exhaustion. And I don't think the reason Jason pushes off the wall in a better streamline better than, say Thomas Gerlach, is a conditioning issue on Thomas' part.

BUT I do agree that the more tired an out of conditioned athlete gets, the worse the streamlines...