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Strava doping
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I don't normally take too much notice of who's got Strava KOMs, partly because I have no serious expectation of getting any KOMs or even top 10s - I live near London and about 50 yards from the 2012 Olympic road race course, so pretty much every segment within 50 miles of me has thousands if not tens of thousands of recorded riders, including plenty of pros. If I can get in the top few percent I count it as a decent result. And partly because I'm normally a pretty casual Strava user - it's fun seeing what friends and training partners are up to, and occasionally seeing which of the guys I ride with gets bragging rights on local hills, but it's not something I spend a lot of time on.

But the other day I set a PR on a local hill that I was quite proud of (55th out of over 5000), had a look at the top 10, started doing a bit more digging and basically concluded that most if not all of them are fixing their GPX files. I've got an FTP of about 4.0 W/kg right now so while I'm far from being a pro I'm not exactly a sluggard, and I did this hill in perfect conditions (dry, tailwind, fresh after a rest day and with an easy ride up until that point), and went absolutely full throttle up it, was spent at the top. I averaged 19.9mph which I was pretty pleased with, top 10 were all in the 29-36mph range. I figured they must be some pretty amazing riders so went to have a look as I always find it interesting what kind of training better riders than me are doing. Only to discover they're not amazing riders at all. There was a lady whose lifetime Strava mileage is <1000 miles averaging about 12mph. A guy in his 50s who judging by his picture is carrying 30-40lbs of excess weight and does most of his rides at 13-15mph. About the only just about plausible time was from a Cat 2 rider doing 29mph who does at least clock >10,000 miles per year, but even that one is a bit suspicious given that he normally records at least one out of HR, cadence and power, but on this particular day seemed to have taken all the sensors off his bike apart from the Garmin itself (not a single one of the top 10 had any out of HR, cadence and power in fact).

These weren't cases of riders accidentally leaving their Garmins on after they'd got in their car - their rides both before and after the suspicious segments looked normal. They weren't GPS glitches that they just hadn't noticed either - most of them had called their rides something like "crushing the X hill KOM!!!" and/or were exchanging comments with their friends about how awesome it was. Are people actually that sad that they would go to all the time and effort to fix their GPX files just so they can pretend they have a KOM that anybody who knows anything about cycling must know is false? How easy is it to even do that, have you got to go through the whole file manually adjusting time stamps or are there tools out there that do it for you? I know there are some very strange people out there, this was just a particular brand of strangeness that really got to me for some reason...
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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"How easy is it to even do that, have you got to go through the whole file manually adjusting time stamps or are there tools out there that do it for you?"

Yes, there are .. and it's increasing in being used. Happy thing, doesn't count on the road ..

Edit: Sad thing, can not show ore share respect in any direction ..

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the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
Last edited by: sausskross: Oct 6, 16 14:28
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
I don't normally take too much notice of who's got Strava KOMs, partly because I have no serious expectation of getting any KOMs or even top 10s - I live near London and about 50 yards from the 2012 Olympic road race course, so pretty much every segment within 50 miles of me has thousands if not tens of thousands of recorded riders, including plenty of pros. If I can get in the top few percent I count it as a decent result. And partly because I'm normally a pretty casual Strava user - it's fun seeing what friends and training partners are up to, and occasionally seeing which of the guys I ride with gets bragging rights on local hills, but it's not something I spend a lot of time on.

But the other day I set a PR on a local hill that I was quite proud of (55th out of over 5000), had a look at the top 10, started doing a bit more digging and basically concluded that most if not all of them are fixing their GPX files. I've got an FTP of about 4.0 W/kg right now so while I'm far from being a pro I'm not exactly a sluggard, and I did this hill in perfect conditions (dry, tailwind, fresh after a rest day and with an easy ride up until that point), and went absolutely full throttle up it, was spent at the top. I averaged 19.9mph which I was pretty pleased with, top 10 were all in the 29-36mph range. I figured they must be some pretty amazing riders so went to have a look as I always find it interesting what kind of training better riders than me are doing. Only to discover they're not amazing riders at all. There was a lady whose lifetime Strava mileage is <1000 miles averaging about 12mph. A guy in his 50s who judging by his picture is carrying 30-40lbs of excess weight and does most of his rides at 13-15mph. About the only just about plausible time was from a Cat 2 rider doing 29mph who does at least clock >10,000 miles per year, but even that one is a bit suspicious given that he normally records at least one out of HR, cadence and power, but on this particular day seemed to have taken all the sensors off his bike apart from the Garmin itself (not a single one of the top 10 had any out of HR, cadence and power in fact).

These weren't cases of riders accidentally leaving their Garmins on after they'd got in their car - their rides both before and after the suspicious segments looked normal. They weren't GPS glitches that they just hadn't noticed either - most of them had called their rides something like "crushing the X hill KOM!!!" and/or were exchanging comments with their friends about how awesome it was. Are people actually that sad that they would go to all the time and effort to fix their GPX files just so they can pretend they have a KOM that anybody who knows anything about cycling must know is false? How easy is it to even do that, have you got to go through the whole file manually adjusting time stamps or are there tools out there that do it for you? I know there are some very strange people out there, this was just a particular brand of strangeness that really got to me for some reason...

+1

I've seen this on runs I've done too. However:
  1. Yes, some people are that sad thay they may tamper with the raw data
  2. Yes, some people take drugs/cheat/climb into a car at the bottom/sticky-bottle it to the top
  3. Until we start running/riding with military grade GPS or simliar, there will always be anomalies in our data. Smartphones and computers/watches are great for what we need them for but they're not timing chips or 100% accurate all the time.
  4. I believe you can report suspicious data to Strava HQ although it's a tough ask to expect them to look into every dodgy run/ride segment, considering it's a free app (for the majority of folks).

Anyway my 2c, but I feel your pain!
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Re: Strava doping [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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Wow. That's just crazy. Never even crossed my mind that people would do that.

Matt
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Re: Strava doping [sausskross] [ In reply to ]
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sausskross wrote:
"How easy is it to even do that, have you got to go through the whole file manually adjusting time stamps or are there tools out there that do it for you?"

Yes, there are .. and it's increasing in being used. Happy thing, doesn't count on the road ..

Edit: Sad thing, can not show ore share respect in any direction ..

Can you share said tool????
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Re: Strava doping [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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The big internet oracle has the current informations for you ..

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the s u r f b o a r d of the K u r p f a l z is the r o a d b i k e .. oSo >>
Last edited by: sausskross: Oct 6, 16 14:37
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Re: Strava doping [mvenneta] [ In reply to ]
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Two of the more popular ones are now offline:

http://www.digitalepo.com
http://ridejuicer.com
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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cartsman wrote:
These weren't cases of riders accidentally leaving their Garmins on after they'd got in their car

Random tidbit here... I did this earlier this summer, and until reading this thread didn't even think to check strava. Looks like I racked up a few KOMs on my way home from my ride, haha... Strava flagged the ride it looks like so they don't show up in leader-boards but I finally got my little KOM symbol for the hill by my house!
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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I accidentally did this a few years back. I use a Garmin Virb to record my motorbike rides incase I get knocked off / see something interesting. When I first got it however, I inadvertently had it setup to upload my rides to my Garmin account, which was then set to automatically upload things to Strava and training peaks. Caused a few days of ruffled feathers as my 35 mph efforts up the local hills were logged. There was one ride where I was stuck in a bit of traffic on one of the local KOM hotspots and just took the top spot by a few seconds. Got a load of congratulatory mails :-)

I took it all down of course. I should imagine it happens, but as you say, it is probably pretty easy to spot the real ones. I also live near London and if you hang in certain circles, you know who the local stud riders are. Anyone beating them is on some sort of juice!
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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I've never seen anything blatant. I've seen plenty where people appear to have accidentally left their GPS on in the car...once a month or so.
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Re: Strava doping [trail] [ In reply to ]
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a lot of this could be a mistake.

when i visited hong kong i wore my garmin because i wanted to track everywhere i went. i thought i had it on autopause, but i did not. thus when i jumped on the train, or the boat, it had be moving really really fast. i think one day i logged 60 miles at a 7 min pace, that's even with all the tourist stops etc.

i came home, things were uploaded and i forgot about it until a year later when people were flagging it as cheating or whatever.

just saying.. it happens.
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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People go crazy over the KOMs. But perhaps no more so than this guy in the Los Angeles area: http://www.latimes.com/...-20160415-story.html
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Re: Strava doping [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
I've never seen anything blatant. I've seen plenty where people appear to have accidentally left their GPS on in the car...once a month or so.

I've seen lots of run CRs which were clearly done on bikes. I think most are honest mistakes and strava clears them up quickly if you report the goof.

-------------------
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Re: Strava doping [ahhchon] [ In reply to ]
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Maybe some of them, but for some of them to have been accidental they'd have had to have gone for a bike ride, jumped in a car for a mile or so in the middle to go up this one hill, then jumped out of the car and cycled again. And then when they got home they must have had a bump on the head leading to temporary amnesia, so that when they uploaded the ride to Strava they totally forgot that they'd been in the car and were so excited to see their new top 10 time that they went and renamed the ride to tell all their friends about it.

I guess it's possible....
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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It's unfortunate but that's s sign of the times. I enjoy Strava but I no longer compare any times to anyone but my friends.

I was out in Boulder, Colorado this summer and one day, two different riders passed me, getting motopaced by a scooter. I went home and looked at their rides. One guy flagged himself and stated motopaced in the title. The other guy had a bunch of kudos and comments and never said he was paced.
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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Ran across these twitter accounts. Loyal 'twitch-hunters and Letsrun posters would be so proud of these guys

https://twitter.com/KomDefender
https://twitter.com/stravadopers

Matt
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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I think my favorite is someone that when they get a KOM, they then make a bunch of identical segments over the same area. So that way they get 4 KOMs for the price of one. They also makes segments when their GPS has errors of their errors, so they get KOMs that they will not lose.
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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I have no idea why someone who wanted to cheat Strava wouldn't just use their car. Seems much easier (assuming you want to spend an hour in your car faking a ride).

ECMGN Therapy Silicon Valley:
Depression, Neurocognitive problems, Dementias (Testing and Evaluation), Trauma and PTSD, Traumatic Brain Injury (TBI)
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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I don't mind the ones where people have obviously forgotten to turn off their GPS, or accidentally picking run instead of ride on their watch. I get that, it happens, and it's so obvious that it's not like they're trying to do anything suruptiously. I still report them to Strava though - in my eyes they're not cheating, they're just muppets.

It's the ones that are obviously wrong but well hidden that piss me off. Like logging a ride as a run, then titling as such (eg Great Morning Run!), when you know they're not capable of the times they claim to have. Or even worse, they dick around in all their other rides then turn into Brad Wiggins on a stretch of road or a hill. Then boast about it.

I still flag stuff, but frankly it's like a hole without a bottom. There's always more.

Swim. Overbike. Walk.
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Re: Strava doping [Titanflexr] [ In reply to ]
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A buddy of mine has the record for cycling across Auckland Harbour. Yes, he takes the ferry :-)

It's a bit like the ski trace app.
My buddy and I skied side by side for a run. The app said I was doing about 60kph. My buddies run registered 107kph! He was NOT going 107. We were never more than about 50m apart the whole time.

TriDork

"Happiness is a myth. All you can hope for is to get laid once in a while, drunk once in a while and to eat chocolate every day"
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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That is sad and a bit pathetic from these Strava users.

Oh well, you know what you did and that is what matters, and sir, you are not a sluggard at all.

I went for a hike the other day and forgot to finish my workout as I got to the car, Suunto will automatically upload to Training Peaks and Strava but in private mode for me.

By the time I had figured it out, I was on the highway and boy oh boy did I get notifications from TP and Strava on my fastest K ever, fastest this, fastest that...

Ha ha ha! I laughed a lot and when I got home I cropped the Strava segment and the TP Suunto data to reflect the actual hike.

98,7 km/h man... Ha ha!



Only fools never change their minds and I'll never change my mind about that.
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Re: Strava doping [Bancarel] [ In reply to ]
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Worst thing about Suunto and Movescount is you can't crop a move if you leave the watch on.
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Re: Strava doping [JerseyBigfoot] [ In reply to ]
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There is also another way to look at this.

All of these wankers running around as if some segment is something important and go out in groups and drag their best man up a hill to get a segment KOM.
Sometimes they just need a reality check, this was the purpose of the digitalepo site, make wankers whose only goal in life is to star on a leader board look like the life starved individuals they are.

Everybody asks me why I don't use Strava, this is why.
And good on everybody that mocks those that need mocking by making their so called triumphs as unimportant as they are.
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Re: Strava doping [JerseyBigfoot] [ In reply to ]
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Worst thing about Suunto and Movescount is you can't crop a move if you leave the watch on.

Glad I'm not the only one who is annoyed by this. I keep expecting them to fix this since almost everyone forgets to stop their watch at some point. I don't spend more than 5 seconds looking at movescount since it is pretty lame compared to Strava.
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Re: Strava doping [cartsman] [ In reply to ]
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There's a lady in my area who recently started taking out her e-bike to ride along with her man on training rides. (She's even done a couple group rides with him but that is another topic . . .).

Over the course of a month or so, she (inadvertently I presume) took down several of the popular QOMs in the area. Eventually they all got flagged and I think the local ladies had a talk with her ;-)
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