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[updated: appears to be here] Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run!
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[update to the post below. It appears the most recent stravatix plugin allows for what I requested below. Stryd claims it also includes run power, but I'm still trying to figure out how to get run power incorporated into stravatix's multisport model.

ok, so no run power in the individual workout graph/chart and no run power for multisport fitness/fressness, only run HR... just your avg and weighted power and time in power zones for the individual run..


baby steps! but man, when run power is included in multisport, that will start to get interesting. The swim TSS based on total time swimming and distance compared to FTP pace is pretty flawed unless I'm swimming continuously with no breaks!!! but it's a start.]



So, if I wanted to use the Fitness/Fatigue/Form Strava calculator effectively for 3 sports, I could manipulate gpx files to change the training load, recording (privately) swimming and running as cycling.

I wonder how much more accurate it would be since I would be taking into account complete cross over of training load between sports... and I could record run/bike or bike/run or swim/run or races as one workout with a summed training load score. Yes, the actual cross over effect would be a bit less than accounting for complete cross over, but it will all be relative...?? and better than the nearly non-existent/unrealistic cross-over effect calculated by WKO4 or Apollo. Or, if all recorded as cycling and if the estimations are worth their salt, would the form/fatigue/fitness be pretty spot on? good enough?

Maybe a developer could make a strava chrome plug in that does this automatically, pulling the FTP and 5k run pace from Settings and having 3 x 1-5 scales the user uses to rate swim training load based on the users perception of fatigue going into the swim, swim distance and intensity, and fatigue 30min post swim. The run would use grade adjusted pace as a power number and create a cycling power file. It would need to take into account that running time and cycling time are different; it could do this by recording the 5k pace as e.g. 150% of ftp to create an appropriate training load, or multiply each minute of data by 2-4....? It could generate a little money, like Stravatix. Developers? take the idea and run with it, please! I would pay to use it.

It would also be a good idea for the plug-in to allow users to manually enter training loads - there's a huge demand for that on the Strava forums.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: Mar 16, 17 20:58
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Oh yeah... and allow the user to enter future training workloads by day or week(s).

Seeing your predicted fitness a week out if you did absolutely nothing tomorrow onwards is a bit useless and creates a guessing game.

Man, want this plugin!

wovebike.com | Wove on instagram
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
So, if I wanted to use the Fitness/Fatigue/Form Strava calculator effectively for 3 sports, I could manipulate gpx files to change the training load, recording (privately) swimming and running as cycling.

I wonder how much more accurate it would be since I would be taking into account complete cross over of training load between sports... and I could record run/bike or bike/run or swim/run or races as one workout with a summed training load score. Yes, the actual cross over effect would be a bit less than accounting for complete cross over, but it will all be relative...?? and better than the nearly non-existent/unrealistic cross-over effect calculated by WKO4

1. You don't really want to do what you think you do.

2. However, if you insist, WKO4 can be used to do it (at least if I understand you correctly).
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [Andrew Coggan] [ In reply to ]
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1. Why? More detailed please?
2. WKO4's chart just isn't that useful - not as much as the Strava chart. And, WKO4 does not take into account (not well) fatigue crossover between sports or bricks - the second workout should have some sort of weight due to fatigue going in; time between workouts should be included in the equation, right?

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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
1. Why? More detailed please?

Because 1) the various metrics inspired by TSS were developed by different people using somewhat different approaches, and 2) even if The International Committee for the Homologization of TSS (of which I was the self-appointed sole member) had had its way*, the scores would still not necessarily be additive, simply because each sport has its own unique demands.

*I'm not joking, i.e., a couple of years ago I proposed developing a universal stress score (USS) to replace all the various TSSs, and did a fair bit of the research legwork. The powers-that-be got cold feet, though, so I shelved the idea.

milesthedog wrote:
2. WKO4's chart just isn't that useful - not as much as the Strava chart. And, WKO4 does not take into account (not well) fatigue crossover between sports or bricks - the second workout should have some sort of weight due to fatigue going in; time between workouts should be included in the equation, right?

I haven't seen the Strava chart to which you refer, but in general their approach is simply to rename things I've come up with (e.g., "suffer score" instead of TSS) to avoid TrainingPeaks' copyrights, then do a half-arsed job of implementing them. I therefore certainly wouldn't hold them up as an example of cutting-edge stuff.

As for WKO4, at the present time your choices are to either 1) not add TSSs from different sports together (what I've already recommended), or 2) add them as you desire (e.g., TSS + rTSS but not +sTSS). How they might interact is really not known, so any sort of weighting would simply be a WAG.
Last edited by: Andrew Coggan: May 24, 16 15:34
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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milesthedog wrote:
1. Why? More detailed please?

Read: http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...n._P5927344/?page=-1
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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They are the same charts...Strava's are just prettier and based off Skiba's algos not AC's
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [kileyay] [ In reply to ]
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much appreciated! that thread was great!

OK, here's a shot at something useful for a Strava Chrome plugin:
  1. Swimming:

    • When recording swim workout in Strava, user asked to rate workout on scale from 1 to 10 (RPE)
    • User prompted to rate the effect humidity & heat had on the workout on scale from 1 to 5 - weight given to workout.
    • Plugin calculates time after last workout - weights are given to workouts that follow another workout within 8 hours time even if on separate days - logarithmic growth model at 15 minute time intervals
    • Standardize Training Load variable on 1 to 10 scale
    • Model fitting - model ASU '90's 26 week training plan that has quite a bit of evidence-based reliability to refine the above model.
  2. Cycling:

    • Plugin pulls "Training Load" variable from Strava for cycling
    • User prompted to rate the effect humidity & heat had on the workout on scale from 1 to 5 - weight given to workout.
    • Plugin calculates time after last workout - weights are given to workouts that follow another workout within 8 hours time even if on separate days - logarithmic growth model at 15 minute time intervals
    • Standardize Training Load variable on 1 to 10 scale
  3. Running:

    • From the GAP-based Run Pace Distribution page on Strava, multiply a weight for each training zone listed in Strava by the seconds spent in that zone.
    • Z1-Z6: 0.65, 0.75, 0.84, 0.9, 0.95, 1.0
    • User prompted to rate the effect humidity & heat had on the workout on scale from 1 to 5 - weight given to workout.
    • Plugin calculates time after last workout - weights are given to workouts that follow another workout within 8 hours time even if on separate days - logarithmic growth model at 15 minute time intervals
    • Standardize Training Load variable on 1 to 10 scale
    • Model fitting - model 26 week 5k, 10k and marathon plans out of Lydiard's Run to the Top to refine the weights given to training zones with the evidence-based assumption that a the result Form should be "perfect", in terms of this model. This would weight the value of longer, slower runs; recovery runs; and training at tempo and threshold efforts. Note: I would take into account personal emails Lydiard sent me in the past where he specified that his MWF 60min runs included a sustained AT/threshold effort, and T, R 90min runs and Sat 120-150min runs included sustained AeT/tempo efforts.
  4. Sum Training Load(s) for each day
  5. Fitness = previous day's Fitness + (current day's Training Load- previous day's Fitness)/(previous 42 day's avg Fitness [seeded until 42 days reached)

    • Fitness value displayed on chart would be dy/dx Fitness - this would take into consideration consistency, volume and intensity over the past 42 days.
  6. Fatigue = previous day's Fatigue + (previous day's Training Load - previous day's Fatigue)/(previous 7 day's avg Fatigue [seeded until 7 days reached])
  7. Form = Fitness - ( Fatigue)
  8. Over-training = Fatigue/Fitness. a value of 1.5 standardized to zero. At or above zero indicates risk of over-training and/or injury.
  9. Allow manual entry for future Training Loads by sport or by cumulative sports for 2 or 3 by day(s), week(s), month(s)

    • copy/paste drag option on calendar to copy Training Loads to multiple and/or non-consecutive days, weeks, months
I can try to standardize scores as proposed above, and also see if the 1.5 over training ratio remains the same with my altered training load calculation - it should be constant throughout the calculation, so 1.5 should still be a usable value.

I can compare the above calculation to a scale that equates this Sunday's Mountain's of Misery race training load calculated by Strava to to a 20 mile run effort at marathon pace estimated to be a Z3 effort, and a 10k swim race effort at an rating of 10 out of 10. Can then compare shorter, more intense efforts used as scaling variables to see how that affects things. Could then create a 2nd order factor that represents three subfactors of short, medium and long max intensities, and use that single factor as a scaling metric. I could then collect friend's perceived equivalents to continue to validate this scale. The plugin could also randomly ask users to rate workouts 1-10 RPE and the plugin would auto re-validate (eCFA) and improve the scaling structure - compare it to users' area-under-Fitness-curves to formulate a sliding scaling structure correlated to user's dy/dx Fitness.

Users could voluntarily share more dynamic data, such as several more perception scales from the user, e.g. quality of sleep, hours of sleep, hours of nap; quality of protein, fat and perception of under/over-eating scales, etc. which can be included in the calculation, with on-going validation as explained above.

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Last edited by: milesthedog: May 25, 16 7:37
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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You're trying to achieve a scientific output to influence your training/race prep by relying on many unscientific inputs. You are over-thinking your training, and even if you were able to make sense of all of it, the likelihood that you'd achieve any marginal gains seems to be very low. So like Coggan said, you don't want to do what you think you want to do.

Better/easier, equally unscientific method: track your training load in individual sports, see what your theoretical "freshness/fitness" would be for that sport, then make adjustments by how you feel that day.
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [tpero] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks.

I'm not convinced, though, that the inputs I've suggested are unscientific. The basic forms of measurement (RPE for swimming, Coggan's cycling measures, and time in zones for running correlated to time at specific mm lactate/l of blood) are scientific. And, the proposed measurement validity testing is also scientific. The entire model is unproven, but that's the point: try to fit a dynamic model with many, many users providing data overtime. Hey, your probably right in that it will be crap, but there's a demand for it, so why not play with it and use a beta app to validate and test the model, and accept constructive input on this forum for respecified nested models for comparison's sake?

it's my personal interest to see how many points of data people are willing to submit/input so that I can turn to sequential dynamic systems analysis (unique formula for each and every user - avoiding aggregatory regression), neutral network analysis (starting with end goal and identifying sequence patterns leading up to goal), and persistent homology (using Aysadi's simplistic program for data reduction and singular pathway/sequence detection). But yeah, this approach is pretty unscientific....

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Last edited by: milesthedog: May 25, 16 12:36
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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Purely from the development side, you're better off asking Strava to implement something like that. A plugin developer won't want to play whack-a-mole with Strava changing their side of things all the time.
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Re: Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [spudone] [ In reply to ]
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Yeah, letting a whack-a-mole playing developer friend handle that until he's had enough - it's a fun evening project for now.

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Re: [updated: appears to be here] Strava Chrome Plugin Wanted - Form/Fitness/Fatigue for Swim, Bike and Run! [milesthedog] [ In reply to ]
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bump due this feature being made available

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