Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster....

Sep 27, 16 7:58

Post #1 of 26 (3554 views)

So I am changing things up for next season and more than likely 2018 as well. After 4 seasons of doing full IM's I am taking the next few years off from them and will focus on Olympic distance, XTERRA tri's and more Cyclocross in the fall. I posted a few years back asking something like "Can I ever KQ....". I got several responses and some made a lot of sense. That thread is here:

http://forum.slowtwitch.com/...ing=tribuck#p5152707

This season went really well training and racing. I raised my FTP to 275, raced at a decent weight (163-164) and essentially trained injury free for Syracuse 70.3 and IMLP. At Syracuse I did a 5:17 with no taper, training right through it. If anyone was there than you know it was about 90 degrees and a tough day. I moved my way to 10th in the M45-49 AG on the run. I think I actually negative split the run this day which was great for me. I think it was a 1:46.

So I was hoping for a sub 11 at IMLP. I didn't care if it was a 10:59 as I just wanted to go under 11. Most of my IM's have been around 11:17-11:31 or so. I swam 2 minutes faster than projected (1:08) with not much effort. I biked a 5:44 nailing my power and IF. (NP 192 & IF .70). I did want to ride a 5:40 but I was pleased with what I had. The run I did a 4:05 which I wanted to run around 3:50-3:55. My goal was to leave T2 at 7 hours flat and run under 4 to have the sub 11. I left T2 at 7:05 so I was close. But, I faded on the run around mile 18 or so. Nothing crushing but enough to make the sub 11 not realistic.

I finished LP in 11:10 which was an IM PR for me beating my best time (actually LP in 2004) of 11:17 when I was 33 years old. So all in all I'm happy with the PR being older, 3 kids, more work demand etc...

So after 7 IM's I am gonna switch it up. Someone (FLECK, I think) in my post from a few years back suggested I "Get faster" at the Olympic distance. That's not 100% why I am switching things around but it played a part. And I don't want to, "hate" the long IM training. I'm not burnt out from it but I can kind of see me not wanting to train that much next year. Shorter, more intense stuff will also help with family time etc...

To end the tri season this year I did an Olympic distance getting 2nd in my AG but it wasn't a huge field. I actually got 4th but there were 4-5 mens 45-49 AG in the top seven so a few guys got put in the overall awards. I could tell my legs were not in that type of racing shape on the run! So lots of work to do for next year.

And I started racing CX this fall and it's awesome! So I'm looking forward to more of this as well as doing a few XTERRA tri's next year.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 8:25

Post #2 of 26 (3503 views)

Smart man. You are hopefully getting it now.

Many come into triathlon and go right to the longer racing 70.3 & the full IM. What happens is you start to get into a bit of an LSD rut. You in a sense have one gear, and one speed and that's all you can do.

After 7 IM's and the four or so years you have been doing this, you should now have a MASSIVE base of endurance fitness. Over the short term, all things being kept equal, since for age-group triathletes, time is a limiter, you are not going to get much faster, by doing more - even if you had the time. To go the more-is-more, you would have to do substantially more volume! Few age-groupers, with jobs, family and a real life have time for that.

The BEST thing you can do, is as you have indicated - step well away from all the longer racing. Tweak the training, to focus more on getting maximum life-best performance from things such as 5K - 10K running races, 15K - 50K ITT's and shorter triathlon races up to Olympic distance.

Do this for a couple of years, and I can almost guarantee you, if you have done it right, even for a late-comer like yourself, your performances at the 70.3 and the Im should take a big jump up!

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 8:40

Post #3 of 26 (3441 views)

Hi FLECK,

I didn't want to make the post any longer originally but I did start tri's back in 2000-2001 (29 years old). I had some decent speed then but I did jump right into full IM training year #2. Raced full IM's 2002-2004 then took a 9 year break from the full IM stuff. But, during this 9 year break I kind of "stayed afloat" doing half irons, ultra running and some other distances never training for speed again really. Lots of stuff in life like 3 young kids, job changes etc...So by doing the occasional 70.3 each year and having "ok" results I lived with it. But in 2012-2013 I jumped back into the full IM training again. Now it's time to back away and see what happens. Plus I would really like to race more than 3x a year. I always turned away from the shorter races fearing I was going to get injured and be out for the IM. Training for the full is super tough with all 3 kids in multiple sports so this is a good time for me to try this approach.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 8:45

Post #4 of 26 (3420 views)

Everyone thinks that going "fast" will get you injured. But what it's really important is your functional strength for each sport - running in particular.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 8:48

Post #5 of 26 (3408 views)

Thanks and this is all good advice!

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 8:50

Post #6 of 26 (3394 views)

Fleck wrote:

Everyone thinks that going "fast" will get you injured. But what it's really important is your functional strength for each sport - running in particular.

Not me. I think going fast will get you the win.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 9:07

Post #7 of 26 (3355 views)

Very interested in this topic. I'm considering taking next year to do pretty much the same thing - focus on shorter / faster.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 10:55

Post #8 of 26 (3179 views)

Congratulations. You just got your life back.

You're probably a bit hooked on the volume. Allow yourself to back it down. Take some stress 'points' from the higher volume and apply them to this higher intensity approach.

Sure, a long run, a long bike, they have their place. Just don't keep doing what you've been doing and try to crush the intensity, too. A 'short' day now really can be a short day. Be smart and accept the fact that it's ok to have a couple of hours left around on a given day to do some things with the family, friends, errands, chillin' out, whatever. If you don't, you may not reap the rewards of the speed focus. You may rob yourself of some pretty cool results/progress.

just my 2cents. I may be preaching something you already know. It's just my experience that most of us have a tough time with being honest with ourselves and how much we really 'got this'!

Good luck!

"Outwork your talent." Kevin McHale

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [morpheus] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 11:15

Post #9 of 26 (3123 views)

Thanks and I hear the extra time! Since IMLP this year I've been having a blast riding my MTB & CX bikes. This is actual fun all while getting an intense workout. Riding the tri bike aero for hours isn't exactly fun IMO but I love racing so you gotta do it. I've also been riding a ton with my two youngest kids on the MTB's and my son just got a used road bike so we have been riding those together too.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 14:27

Post #10 of 26 (2957 views)

I've been having a good time as well as good results from focusing on sprints and Olys this past year, stepping away from my annual HIM regimen.

One thing I did have to tweak to make things work though - my training intensity went up quite a lot with the accompanying decrease in overall volume (mainly due to the lack of 3-5 hr weekend bikes and 2-3 hr runs back to back.)

If I did this much intensity on my HIM regimen, I'd be worried about things breaking. But it has been going fine for me on the lower overall volume, which allows me to recover more quickly.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 14:51

Post #11 of 26 (2899 views)

I read the prior thread and it's good you will listen to Fleck, he knows what he is talking about.

After reading the old thread, I had to chuckle over how many people were so focussed on your weight as if that was the only thing holding you back. Fleck and a few others said you were just not fast enough so should focus on that first.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [B.McMaster] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 15:44

Post #12 of 26 (2807 views)

Not me. I think going fast will get you the win.

It does that to!! :)

The dirty little truth that no one seems to really address is that things like the fitness required to run a great 5K or a 15K or 10 mile ITT on the bike, is the foundation and fundamental fitness required to go perform well and go faster at the longer distances.

In short, the fitness to go well for 15 - 30 minutes, is absolutely key!

But so many people just slog and grind along at this all-LSD-all-the-time pace. Most rec athletes have a very poor range of paces that they can operate at. Just looking at running - their 5K race pace is not that much faster than their 1/2 Marathon pace. The better athletes - the ones placing on the podium in their AG, and getting the Kona IQ spots, will have a much better range of paces that they train and race at.

Steve Fleck @stevefleck | Blog

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 17:24

Post #13 of 26 (2673 views)

Fleck wrote:

Everyone thinks that going "fast" will get you injured. But what it's really important is your functional strength for each sport - running in particular.

I think going fast early (on the run) did get me injured. I think the functional strength you mention is spot on, and that it takes a couple of years building that to a point where you can start to build in speed work on the run and not get injured. After 2 years of running broken up with injuries, I'm only just now starting to feel like my body can take some tempo runs each week, with the rest of my running still at 'E pace".

Cycling less so, I think you can go fast from the outset assuming your fit is ok, swimming I have no idea about, still trying to figure that out!

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 20:15

Post #14 of 26 (2530 views)

I'm actually doing the same thing. My wife and kids requested that I take a year off from long course, and I plan to honor their request since they have been so incredibly supportive of my crazy hobby. All Olys and sprints for me in 2017! I need a change anyway. Not a break, but a change. Honestly I'm not all that happy with how my body responded to the IM focus this year. Long and steady has turned into slow and slower. Looking forward to changing things up. I'll never be as fast as you are, but I can be faster than I am now.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 20:31

Post #15 of 26 (2502 views)

Fleck wrote:

Not me. I think going fast will get you the win.

It does that to!! :)

The dirty little truth that no one seems to really address is that things like the fitness required to run a great 5K or a 15K or 10 mile ITT on the bike,

It's all a big aerobic engine even at those distances.

Oly is the longest race distance i have done and I'm still really enjoying triathlon in my third season. To be honest i think my preferred race distance is Sprint, they are so much fun and don't consume a whole day and i find the 5k run more palatable than 10k. Oly is a difficult distance, if you overcook it you're in for a long morning as the backend of the 10k will kick your ass, it's harder to fake it than a 5k.

I find a lot of people rush into 70.4 and IM far too early and then they burn out. They get sick of the long training hours and time away from the family, but they also think shorter races make them a lesser athlete. I can set a PB in a race and instead of a "well done" it's "when are you stepping up", which is probably never. Sprint and Oly give a great balance of training, work and family and you still get that rush from race day, well more rushes as you can race every weekend if you want.
Training is fairly boring IMO, it's the buzz i get racing that makes it worthwhile.

Last edited by: TriguyBlue: Sep 27, 16 20:33

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 27, 16 23:01

Post #16 of 26 (2426 views)

Good idea.
I was in the same situation as you 2 1/2 years ago. Wanted always to go to Kona, but I was just too slow on the bike.
Had always been doing plans for the long distance, and ended up stagnating, as Fleck suggests in post #2.

I changed than two things:
- added fast 5*5 min intervals, which I had never done before (fast means as fast as you can). Since than the average speed of these intervals increased from 36 1/2 km/h to 40 km/h this year.
- changed the long slow bikerides in doing them with higher intensity, not so high as IM intensity, but about 7 heartbeats/m below that.

I got a lot faster on olympic distances, and the IM-intensity intervals which I always do the last 8 weeks before an IM changed from 34 km/h three years ago to 37 km/h this year.

And, by the way, I qualified for Kona 2 1/2 weeks ago😄

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 0:11

Post #17 of 26 (2386 views)

I just finished my 8-week Kona build last Sunday and your thoughts are pretty much mine, at least at the moment. I am not going to do a full next year, half's yes, but no fulls.

I did a sprint in the middle of the build and it was really fun, so maybe some more of those next year. Getting faster would be fun and if that will really work, then maybe 2018 I'll try at some fast race to go close to 9h. Kona again, probably not.

But for now, I want to get this race over with, start ice-hockey season, hit the gym, sprint up a hill, do jumps, fast starts and coordination and all the fun stuff one gets really bad at training for a full IM. Then back at this stuff somewhere in March.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [Fleck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 1:01

Post #18 of 26 (2359 views)

Fleck wrote:

Everyone thinks that going "fast" will get you injured. But what it's really important is your functional strength for each sport - running in particular.

Elaborate on functional strength?

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 4:16

Post #19 of 26 (2262 views)

Are you self-coached? If not, smart move to hire a coach! He should know the drills to make you a faster athlete when preparing for shorter events next year.

If indeed you are self-coached, by now you already have guessed what I am about to advise…

Determining your functional (running) strength will be much easier and faster with the guidance of a coach. Your feedback enables him to assess your current standings, and work out a nice balance between the (speed)training load you can handle and recovery.

With the decreased volume, you may even find time to do a weekly 1-hour running drill session. It works wonders for me. After my first session I felt muscles in my legs I didn’t know the existence off. Some core training combined with activating the hidden and untrained fast twitch muscles will make you a faster runner.

And we all know, it's all about the run. Except when you're doing draft-legal oly's. Then you're better off being a swimmer with some background in the pool...

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [18Argon] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 4:28

Post #20 of 26 (2239 views)

18Argon wrote:

Are you self-coached? If not, smart move to hire a coach! He should know the drills to make you a faster athlete when preparing for shorter events next year.

If indeed you are self-coached, by now you already have guessed what I am about to advise…

Determining your functional (running) strength will be much easier and faster with the guidance of a coach. Your feedback enables him to assess your current standings, and work out a nice balance between the (speed)training load you can handle and recovery.

With the decreased volume, you may even find time to do a weekly 1-hour running drill session. It works wonders for me. After my first session I felt muscles in my legs I didn’t know the existence off. Some core training combined with activating the hidden and untrained fast twitch muscles will make you a faster runner.

And we all know, it's all about the run. Except when you're doing draft-legal oly's. Then you're better off being a swimmer with some background in the pool...

Not always true. I some friends who are super swimmers. They have found that in a DL race, they can be too good. Meaning, they get out of the swim
so quickly they have no one to draft with. They told me they have been caught by the group in their AG that did not swim as well, but they all got to work together.
So, you never know what might happen.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

FindinFreestyle

Sep 28, 16 4:45

Post #21 of 26 (2209 views)

When I first started tri in 1988, I said I would step up to longer distances once I figured out the shorter stuff. 28 on and off years and 43 Olympic distance tris later, the best I could do was 2nd at AG nats in 2012. Finally learned not to over bike and have a decent run. Coming back now after a 4 year break and I just have one more step up the podium and then I think I will try a half!

Short course racing, and in particular, doing WELL at short course racing is fun, challenging, and requires a level of precision and intensity of training that many IM athletes simply never get. Call me arrogant, but I know that I know most of what I need to know to translate a legit sub 2 hour OD, to a roughly 9 hour IM. I've coached athletes to successful IM plenty, as well as short course national champions. Most of those IM athletes would absolutely fare better if they had a few solid years of real structured ass kickingly intense short course work.

Leave the dark side. Beer in hand by 11am after most races! Training again on Monday!

Last edited by: FindinFreestyle: Sep 28, 16 4:45

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [longtrousers] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 5:38

Post #22 of 26 (2161 views)

Sweet congrats on your KQ! That's awesome. I'm looking at a multi-year plan. Shorten it up for a few seasons then back at it. I'll almost be 50 at that point and it really doesn't get much easier.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 9:56

Post #23 of 26 (1995 views)

tribuck wrote:

Sweet congrats on your KQ! That's awesome. I'm looking at a multi-year plan. Shorten it up for a few seasons then back at it. I'll almost be 50 at that point and it really doesn't get much easier.

Thanks.
I'm in M55 now and I must say I'm glad I do not have to compete in the M50 anymore. It's getting faster and faster every year. KQ is a lot of work, worries and time, at least it was for me. Happy training.

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 10:06

Post #24 of 26 (1980 views)

I am thinking the same thing. Get into a REALLY good running shape in the first half of the year and then concentrate on the Oly races for the rest of the year.

Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

Re: Stepping away from full Ironman for a few seasons to try to get faster.... [tribuck] [ In reply to ]

Sep 28, 16 10:32

Post #25 of 26 (1952 views)

Remember, if you enjoy short course then it IS ok to not come back to ironman at all!

Race Reports, etc -- Bob's Bikes

Our Partners

transition-DOT-area-AT-slowtwitch-DOT-com

Advertise with us

©1999-2024 Slowtwitch, Inc., and Slowtwitch.com
Reproduction of material from any Slowtwitch.com page
without written permission is strictly prohibited.