Nobody?

had stem cell done for arthritic knee in sep '13 with follow up prp in oct'13. drawn from hip marrow....outpatient no pain in the hip, little painful in the knee injected. i was 65 at the time. had meniscus surgery in other knee in 2006, but doc said mri suggested just degenerative in the "good" knee and not a candidate for surgery plus age, and prognosis for oa even if they did operate. by the way, they said in 2006 i was good candidate for oa after 60% of posterior horn removed, but knock on wood, i have not experienced significant oa in the surgically repaired knee.

so after the stem cell and prp, the doc said give it time to take hold. i did, but could tell something positively different at a couple of months. before even floor exercises was difficult as it was painful to bend my knee. after couple of months i could bend the knee and no pain. so i gave it about 10 months and i started running again. the knee responded well and i was able to return to sprint distance tris at age 66. while run conditioning was not what i hoped for, i still had success in my age group for now going on a year.

negatives, are not covered by insurance, and my stem cell knee still needs work on proprioception. still a tad unstable despite work. doubt i will ever be able to do half or full im again, but quite happy with doing sprints up to olys.

i would do again, and two things i do now better is diet (reduce inflammation-higher fat) and mobility work using mobilitywod website.

done at emory university and you can google them they have short video.

Thanks. Great to hear you're back in the game as a result of the treatment. Really appreciate the response and more than anything it gives me hope I can remain active in the coming years.

There are a couple of recent studies that show promising results beyond just feeling better (e.g. results shown on MRI) in patients with knee osteoarthritis.
Although there hasn't been, as far as I know large RCTs and longitudinal follow up, the results are quite promising, and if you can get it done, it's probably worth
trying.

Hi. I'm now 42, and suddenly found myself with arthritis in my hip and have been told I'm already a candidate for a replacement. NFW am I doing that yet. I decided to go the stem cell route and will get the shot in both hips in a few weeks. i'll update on my progress. For the record I went from a pretty decent age grouper (last IM I did in 2012 before military deployment 2013-2014 was 10:35) and now I struggle painfully and hop through 10k on pure gut check. No weight issues etc. It may be wishful thinking, but I hope to be back on the Half and Full circuit for 2016 season.

so do you have to get a TUE if you get this done?

Synthetic
I'm not sure what a TUE is.
the plan from doc was prolotherapy in both hips to "calm" the joints and prepare it for the stem. That sounds like b.s. to me, but I'm honestly keen to do anything other than replacement
About two weeks later, the marrow will be pulled from my iliac bone, spun and put back in the joint. about two weeks after that, a PRP shot to aid in the healing.

I know you asked for input from people for whom stem cell therapy has worked. I would just like to mention, that as of now nobody who received this kind of treatment can answer that question or generalize the answer with certainty and with good conscience.
Every individual has a different medical profile which is highly relevant for these kind of treatments (combination of immunology, physiology, etc.)

From a scientific perspective, and as a general rule, the hype and promises of stem cell therapy by far exceed the proven scientific documented outcomes.

If you are happy with anecdotal, short term success stories.... plenty of them can be found without proof of veracity and documentation of long term success.

Good luck with whatever you decide. As with any medical procedure, there are risks and challenges and yes, also hope.

temporary use exemption. what is the difference between putting stem cells in your body or testosterone? they both aid in (re)growth

1) Therapeutic Use Exemptin

2) one is a natural substance (just yourself) the other is synthetic.

3) one doesn't creat unnatural abilities, just helps you heal.

4) one is not, AFAIK, not illegal.

At the end of the day, #4 is the only difference that matters.

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"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

ok , rehash.... blood doping via stored high altitude blood and reinjecting your own blood at low altitude.

before i got my treatment i researched briefly and asked my doc who works with an extensive number of sports teams amateur and professional whether stem cells were usada ok. i did find an article or two that usada or wada were looking at it somewhat, but one article said the cost to detect was high and not conclusive if i remember it correctly. maybe someone with medical background can comment. oh, one article talked about stem cells to improve breathing/lung capability but i just don't think it was thoroughly researched.
my doc said he was aware of no ban.

i suppose epo has been tested to show performance improvement, thus the ban. platelet rich plasma has been around a while and surely they have looked at whether it is a healer vs enhancer. stem cell probably not researched as much yet. my stem cells were taken from hip and fairly quickly put back into the site where arthritis was occuring. he used a sonogram of sorts. not directly back into my circulatory system as i understand it.

you pose a good question though and given scientific advances no telling what lies on the horizon.

as an aside i went to a different doctor for prolotherapy for ligament help and he wanted me to do testosterone. he seemed irritated that i would ask him whether it was legal in the usada/wada world. needless to say i did not see him again.

You might look into PRP. Probably less expensive and less painful than stem cell treatment. I've had a lot of luck with PRP and Prolo.

See #2 and #4.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

^ the same can be said for testosterone that is collected naturally and not synthetic...

Thanks for clarifying. Everything I have been told by numerous doctors is this is NOT banned, and is on the list of acceptable proceedures/therapies. Indeed, its your material, and it is not spun long enough to "create" anything. PRP and autologous stem is fine.

See #4.

Look, I didn't make the rules....you asked what the difference was between stem cell therapy and testosterone, I gave you an answer.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Just curious how your stem cell treatment went and how you're feeling so far?

I just finished IMAZ and had a great race. I ran with my Ossur Unloader brace and had a good marathon (3:43). Had very little pain but some swelling. Ortho is recommending prolotherapy as a first step as I still have some cartilage so he thinks it will regrow. Knee feels good two weeks post-IMAZ so I'm really debating whether to do anything at all or try the prolo in hopes it makes things even better. I'm only 40 yo and have heard that treating it earlier is better than later.

Appreciate your or anyone else's insight given your experience.

let me guess. you're a young pup and never have had bone-on-bone disease. WRT the spirit of a TUE, how in any evaluation, could someone unable to run receive such an enourmous benefit from the ability to now hobble that it would prejudice their effort? how, in the spirit of competition, is taking a person unable to run to now able to hobble giving them an unfair advantage over the FOP athletes? seriously, you guys get such tunnel vision with your TUEs it isn't funny.

i'll out myself now. I likely went WAY overboard on albuterol in my last IM on the last lap. I can't remember how many hits i took off that puffer - i stopped counting at 10. i think 17 or so is over the legal limit. And you know what it got me? I went from 3rd in my category to 8th. I finished walking. I couldn't breathe and walk and eat at the same time, so i just walked and breathed. if i wanted to take on nutrition i would have to completely lie down and only breathe and eat/drink. that was the HUGE advantage i had by taking over the legal limit of albuterol. So yeah, I was totally a doper. A doper who could not eat and walk and breathe at the same time because i couldn't get in enough oxygen to do so. explain to me how i took advantage of the field like that?

there is clear-cut doping and there are huge grey areas. when you are so disadvantaged that the "doping" only allows you to finish and not excel, i fail to see how it creates such an unfair advantage.

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Hi. So, I had the last PRP shot on the 18th, about two weeks after the stem cell injection. I found the stem extraction wasn't the most pleasant, but not horrible either. For the first 5 days, I followed doctor orders and didn't (and couldn't) leave the couch. But, after about 8 days, it was MUCH better. By the time I had the last PRP (allegedly aids in the recovery and healing after the stem) I was really starting to believe this is going to work. The doc warned me that at the 5 week mark, I'd slide back a bit, but then it would get alot better.. I'm at that point now, and I have to say, he is dead right. Some notes so far...the CONSTANT searing burning pain from the bone-on-bone is gone. I have a bit of a weird muscle tenderness in the upper quad, which they said is normal. The sudden "drops" where you lose stability seems to be disappearing. I started walking (no loads/rucks etc) and its slow going...but it is definitely getting better. They warned me its going to take about 5 months...but at 5 months...it will be like I didn't have an issue. For the record, I am very fit for my age, and generally run a 3 hour marathon for IM distance. So, I'm not being a p*ssy..the hip was THAT bad. I'm unclear if I will ever get back to be the ability to race IM again, but I have to say, so far, I'm confident it is rebuilding

Could you report on your stem cell treated hip again. I am contemplating
stem cell knee treatments.

Thanks

Mark

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Gonna need 3 glow sticks.

I'm in general agreement with you. However, as a life-long sever asthmatic, I'd say that if you're taking albuterol more than a few times, you need to review your asthma management strategy. If you're taking a "rescue inhaler" 10+ times at once, you're close to a state that requires emergency treatment.

There are dozens of long-term solutions: asmanex, azmacort, aerobid..... I still carry albuterol inhalers, but since I started taking aerobid consistently, they usually expire before I ever use them.

So yeah, I'd bust you for doping, if only to get you to pursue a more sensible asthma treatment program. See your doctor. Please!

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Hi there—
I had stem cell therapy on both knees last February at Spaulding rehab center near Boston. I have OA in both knees and after a long run that ended with a pop in October 2017, I couldn’t get the inflammation to go down. Five weeks of icing and resting, I opted for a cortisone shot, but it seems the inflammation was the only thing holding my knees together. I couldn’t walk and was in an incredible amount of pain. Catherine Eng at Spaulding performed the procedure in February 2018. Because I am over 40, the extraction from the hip was not the best option, so they removed fat from my butt. I KNOW! At first I thought this was the BEST IDEA EVER, but the reality is, there wasn’t that much fat, and the removal was quite painful. The good news is that by May I could ride my bike again, and just this August I completed my first ever half IM Aquabike. I’m not running, and I am not sure that will ever happen again, but I can jog up and down stairs without a thought, push hard on the pedals again and walk pain free without shuffling.

I don’t think I would do the procedure again because of the pain and length of recovery, but if this means I can push back a knee replacement for five years, it was worth it for me. It seems like knee replacements on both will be in my future. I can thank my folks for the crappy genetics—they both struggled with knee issues and pain forever.

If anyone is still reading, LOL, I’m curious if there is a coach, or a protocol for someone with OA for running. Because, maybe, just maybe I’ll try again since it looks like IM killed the only two races on the east coast that offered Aquabike options: Maine and Quassy.

Thanks for reading and good luck if you move forward with the procedure.

Meg

Hi Mark,

My wife had stem cell therapy performed at Emory in Feb 2017. The right knee has the stem cell therapy and the left was given an injection of PRP. She's had meniscus surgery on both. Has OA of both knees as well. Now, almost two years later, the left knee is doing better than the right knee. She feels like the stem cell therapy was zero help. Also, it's an out of pocket expense (not covered by insurance). Most likely next steps would be bilateral knee replacements but, as long as she can continue to bike and hike pain free, no plans for that anytime soon.