How much does it cost to be part of this group?

Will Paulo be the coach?

The camp will have a fee, then there will be a separate fee for the athletes who are in the squad past that. Fees and costs will be discussed with those who apply and are invited to be a part of the group. Cost shouldn't be a prohibitive circumstance for athletes applying.

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Jim Vance
http://TodaysPlan.com.au (Disclosure: I am contracted with Today's Plan)
http://www.CoachVance.com/
Twitter @jimvance

Funny!

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Jim Vance
http://TodaysPlan.com.au (Disclosure: I am contracted with Today's Plan)
http://www.CoachVance.com/
Twitter @jimvance

It sounds like you are advertising a coaching service.

That seems like an overly simplistic way to view it. Sounds to me more like when Paulo came on here and launched his squad. Did you view that in a similar fashion?

I might be able to hire Jim Vance as a coach (or have access to him through the unfortunately named Superfly Coaching) but I could not be part of this squad, just like I couldn't fly to wherever Jamie Turner is at this point and join him.

I suppose he is deriving income from coaching, but I view it as different.

Were I an elite athlete, I'd certainly consider it. Jim always seems knowledgeable in his interviews and Ben's performance across multiple distances and formats certainly lends credibility.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Yes.

Only half pink: Would there also be a place for a runner that is nowhere like an elite yet and has never had high performance training but is willing to go all in?

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10k - 30:48 / half - 1:06:40

All I can do is encourage you to apply. This is about finding the right group of athletes who fit, based on their needs, my strengths. You may fit, you may not. But won't know until the pool of athletes is set.

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Jim Vance
http://TodaysPlan.com.au (Disclosure: I am contracted with Today's Plan)
http://www.CoachVance.com/
Twitter @jimvance

Correct me if I am wrong, but when you are part of an elite team, aren't you usually sponsored and or paid and not have to pay to be on an elite team???

I’ll correct you. That’s not how it works with daily tri squads. Now half of the athletes in these world class groups are federation supported + grant money to pay for Coach. Just depends on level of athlete.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

I’d add that this isn’t one of the teams like Timex or BMC. This is a training group, like Sutto or Paulo or Joel Filio or Jayme Turner-o.

Jim Vance-o.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

It's always hard for me to wrap my head around that. It's the complete opposite in the bike racing world. No elite bike racer would expect to pay to be part of an elite team. Just the opposite. There'd be an expectation of payment. And tons of provided equipment (bike, of course). Not much payment for domestic pros, but certainly the athletes would be paying anything to be part of the squad.

The sport of triathlon in general is extraordinarily efficient at extracting money from its athletes, both amateur and pro.

So first off it's not really a "team" in the sense of what a pro cycling team is. Meaning pro tour teams riders all get basic same level deals on gear/sponsors right? They all get everything paid for when they fly to xyz races, they get food, they get airfare covered.

This (and every other "squad") is simply a group of athletes coming together under 1 coach to do group workouts. So maybe Jim or Paulo or Jamie Turner gets some sponsorship from XYZ company, and likely it's up to each individual to get the biggest sponsorship deals and/or federation funding.


So in reality you shouldn't even be thinking/comparing this to an bike team. This is the exact opposite of that. A bike team is a group of athletes all on same type of contracts with said team. Triathlon is made entirely of free agents doing what is best for themselves, some get better support, and some don't and have much more out of pocket expenses.

So what is happening now is federations are allowing athletes much more control of their own coaching/athlete needs, and letting the athlete dictate who runs the day to day coaching of their program. It's happening now that these "squads" are popping up all over the world (Jim's group is among 3 daily training groups in San Diego made up of solid ITU athletes), but it's more or less coaches doing the heavy lifting here. They are setting up the camps, they are setting up the housing, they are paying for pool space, track space, etc. Maybe some get some funding support and some don't get enough for what they are doing, but if you think these groups are milking athletes money, you are wrong on that front for what they are providing.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Ahh, OK I get it. Now you are selling. No disrespect but please move to classifieds and or coaching.

Cheers,

Wow, what gives with the mob mentality on this board?!

Feel free to not read the thread, and not apply. I am not soliciting athletes on a general scope. I don't think anyone really believes I am hard up for athletes, or that I am doing this for big financial gain. This is a unique opportunity, and opportunities like this are critical to US elite development. So I posted here. Take it up with Slowman and see if he agrees with you.

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Jim Vance
http://TodaysPlan.com.au (Disclosure: I am contracted with Today's Plan)
http://www.CoachVance.com/
Twitter @jimvance

I get that it's not the same as a bike racing team. But is that really all it is, the same as any triathlon coaching service, only faster people?

So there's no team kit? No team sponsors? No common branding? No unified social media presence?I was thinking of like Bahrain Endurance. (of course that's a plaything of the rich, so not a perfect analogy, but still...)

I'm not picking on this proposed San Diego squad. I hope it works out. I've just always had a tough time squaring triathlon with other sports. There have been other threads on the pro/elite business model in triathlon....I still just think the pro/elite model in triathlon is pretty awful for the actual athletes. When we got a little glimpse under the hood of bike contracts with the Rapp/Dimond debacle, I was stunned at how little money was involved. I've seen geezer amateur masters bike racers get better bike sponsorship than that.

You're probably right in tell me "how it is." I'm more questioning, "Is that how it should be...or could be?"

No matter how you describe it I just feel no way in hell that a triathlete ranked at the ITU level should ever be paying for coaching. But maybe that's just naivety based on comparing to the super-rich spectator sport of bike racing. :)

This.

As talented as a coach as Jim May be, the idea of an elite-level athlete paying for his Services is absurd.

I'm a decent triathlete, my true talents lie in another obscure sport, and I would never, ever, ever, ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever ever PAY to be associated with a brand. Even in my tiny niche sport, Brands pay me to use their stuff.

On the other hand, if Jim is simply advertising his coaching Services, have at it. As good as he is, as long as he's not charging more than a few hundred bucks a month, it's insane value.

But to pretend like people are applying to be part of some sort of exclusive club that they have to pay to be a member of? That's weaker than circus lemonade

I love bike racing. But i dont think any sport on the planet should look to cycling as a business or sport model. Broken beyond repair. And that has zero to do with doping. All to do with $$$.

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@rhyspencer

Dave - why on earth would Jim coach them and not be compensated for his time? As mentioned earlier on the thread, the ultimate payment might come from the athlete or from their federation, but why would he do it for free?

I don't think thinking of this as a brand is the best way to frame it. This isn't a bike or shoe company.

When NFL quarterbacks work with George Whitfield, he gets paid. I'm sure Michael Jordan and other NBA guys pay Tim Grover. Does Bob Bowman volunteer to work with Michael Phelps?

What is your other sport?

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

Directed at me or general question?

You've been a member here longer than me - I can't imagine you're still surprised after a decade! That being said, my personal intention is not to add to that.

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Aaron Bales
Lansing Triathlon Team

I get that it's not the same as a bike racing team. But is that really all it is, the same as any triathlon coaching service, only faster people?

See this is where I'm not going to call you out specifically, but I'm just going to shake my head that you can't understand what is being offered here. To imply this is just another "coaching service", is missing what is being offered here. So if you think regular ole tri coaching services offer this level of coaching/interactions, I want to know what athletes you are around. A daily coached environment is no where near other regular triathlon coaching services.


So there's no team kit? No team sponsors? No common branding? No unified social media presence?I was thinking of like Bahrain Endurance. (of course that's a plaything of the rich, so not a perfect analogy, but still...)


Oh absolutely almost every "squad" has their own kits....Team IE, Triathlon Squad, Origin, D-Squad, (I don't know if Jamie Turner's every had a "kit" or not). And I'll wager the "squad" will have team sponsors likely with a local doctor/masseuses/PT, etc. But it's also always going to be on each individual athlete to take care of themselves, because in reality all these athletes are single brands. The issue with BE is that it's a team created because a VERY rich prince wanted to make a triathlete team and showcase it. But show me where the other teams that are similar to bike teams like Garmin/AG2R/USPS/Sky, etc. Show me where these teams are, I'll be waiting and I'll have my resume ready to ask for a job with a paid gig like that......


I'm not picking on this proposed San Diego squad. I hope it works out. I've just always had a tough time squaring triathlon with other sports. There have been other threads on the pro/elite business model in triathlon....I still just think the pro/elite model in triathlon is pretty awful for the actual athletes. When we got a little glimpse under the hood of bike contracts with the Rapp/Dimond debacle, I was stunned at how little money was involved. I've seen geezer amateur masters bike racers get better bike sponsorship than that.


I think it's the ugly reality when your sport has no tv/media coverage. Advertising drives the money train, why do you think this whole NFL issue with national anthem is pissing off the owners who are caught in the middle; they want to support their players but they are all talking amongst themselves at the ratings decline and issue that it's causing with fans. So when you don't have media coverage, your sport has no money to share. So I scratch my head at people who bring up cycling and compare it to triathlon....makes no sense. It's the reality because how many pros are "making it"? It's the very ugly reality that 2/3rd of the Olympic athletes are all training their asses off, living 5 people in a 2 bedroom apt making very little money.


Check out this list of pro money list: 962 athletes have made money from prize money (this is not factoring in sponsorship money)........60 athletes make $30k, which is very low end for a "college educated" person.....60 out of 962 people are basically living off this sport. https://www.teamusa.org/.../Prize-Money-Leaders



You're probably right in tell me "how it is." I'm more questioning, "Is that how it should be...or couldbe?"

You are in Southern Cali right? Go champion to your local tv market to put triathlon on TV...that's the only way this changes.


No matter how you describe it I just feel no way in hell that a triathlete ranked at the ITU level should ever be paying for coaching. But maybe that's just naivety based on comparing to the super-rich spectator sport of bike racing. :)


I would say there is a good chance that if you are top 100 in the world on the itu level, you are getting some federation support. So whether that covers coaching fee or travel expenses, you are *atleast* likely getting *some* financial support. Now obviously the better you are, the more support you'll get. And yes it's backwards to cycling because cycling is a very well funded sport. Triathlon isn't, it has no money, it has no advertising, it has no TV markets, so again to compare it to biking is stupid. It should be compared to an olympic sport like handball.....You think triathletes have it bad, go talk to those guys, they don't even get travel support for national team member events.

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Brooks Doughtie, M.S.
Exercise Physiology
-USAT Level II

Not jumping on you Aaron, you know we are cool.

As you pointed out, the growing trend on this board is to throw the true experts to the curb. A few of them have it coming, others such as in this instance.