Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Someone smarter than me, computer geeks
Quote | Reply
We all know that cardio machies OVER estimate calories.
Garmin 620 now estimates VO2.
A high percentage of us use HR monitors, power meters, footpods, etc.

Can someone not create an algorhithm to take a GPS file (with HR/power/speed/cadence/ etc) and match it to equations like (there are others, just liked these two) below to come up with more COMPLETE/ACCURATE data (VO2/ calories/work etc) ? If this has been done, can you supply a link-THANK YOU.

RunningVO2 (mL . kg-1 . min-1) = (0.2 . Speed) + (0.9 . S . Grade) + 3.5 mL. kg-1.min-1
Leg CyclingVO2 (mL . kg-1 . min-1) = 1.8(work rate) / (BM) + 3.5 mL. kg-1.min-1+ 3.5 mL. kg-1.min-1
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [franktheguard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Someone want to provide me with a sample GPS file?
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [franktheguard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Ok so Ive learned that .gpx can be converted to .csv and excel can open files of both type.
However I am only finding
Lat / Long / HR / name and time
anyone care to take this challenge on to get an excel of colums with the basic data recorded:
HR speed grade power time
Or know how to calculate speed grade from lat / long.
Frank
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [franktheguard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I'm not entirely understanding what you are trying to get at here.

The key variables that you need for accurate VO2 testing and accurate calorie burn are not present in power meter or GPS or heart rate data.

You need to know how much oxygen you have actually processed, and for that you need a mask over your face.

the equations you have here are probably what your head unit is already doing, for cycling any way.

probably not for running


franktheguard wrote:
Ok so Ive learned that .gpx can be converted to .csv and excel can open files of both type.
However I am only finding
Lat / Long / HR / name and time
anyone care to take this challenge on to get an excel of colums with the basic data recorded:
HR speed grade power time
Or know how to calculate speed grade from lat / long.
Frank



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You are 100% correct on the mask statement. However you can calculate based on variables like so for running:

VO2 (mL . kg-1 . min-1) = (0.2 . S) + (0.9 . S . G) + 3.5 mL. kg-1.min-1 This formula is a weak example, but can lead to bigger items.

Accurate VO2 testing isnt done in the field, easily. Ill take CONSISTENTLY inaccurate for now, if I can.

If Garmin can create graphs with recorded data, I'd like to see/use the data the way Id like.
Thanks for you input so far!
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [franktheguard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
I think the crux of this is that you are not "calculating" VO2 with those variables, you're estimating it. In order to accurately estimate it, you need a lot of people to do a lot of bike rides and runs and you need to collect all of those variables, but you also need to record their actual VO2 at the same time. Then you plug all of your data into a multiple regression model and you get rid of the parameters that don't contribute (the variables that don't predict VO2 very well) and what you are left with is an equation a lot like the one you've already shown. They weight the variables (0.2) or (0.9) based on the data they collected and actual VO2 values, then estimate your VO2 on your head unit using the easy-to-collect parameters.

Historically, the problem with these types of regression models is that they used to use very few people (maybe ~10) and they would all be men, and they would all be 20-30yrs old and healthy. So if you're a 50-year old lady, they won't work very well. The problem is that it's difficult and expensive to do this. I don't know the literature that well, and I don't know if Garmin actually has the "best" equation or not because while 1 equation may work well for one "homogeneous" group of people, it probably doesn't work well for another.


Dtyrrell
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [Dtyrrell] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you for your response.
Calculating. ..ie estimating yes. Grammar imo. Let's split the difference and just say not measuring.
Question still stands though.
You suggest a group. .. I'm looking at n=1 ME.
I have done mask breath by breath measurements.
I also have plenty of trials on the same set of courses.

Again problem still stands.
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [franktheguard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
load the file into golden cheetah
open up the ride
click on edit
click in the upper left hand corner to highlight all
CNtrl-C

Cntrl-V into excel

then do math



Kat Hunter reports on the San Dimas Stage Race from inside the GC winning team
Aeroweenie.com -Compendium of Aero Data and Knowledge
Freelance sports & outdoors writer Kathryn Hunter
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [franktheguard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
franktheguard wrote:
Thank you for your response.
Calculating. ..ie estimating yes. Grammar imo. Let's split the difference and just say not measuring.
Question still stands though.
You suggest a group. .. I'm looking at n=1 ME.
I have done mask breath by breath measurements.
I also have plenty of trials on the same set of courses.

Again problem still stands.


Why do you care?

http://www.scienceofrunning.com/...2max-and-vo2max.html

The tl;dr; for those that don't want to read the (rather lengthy) article:

Quote:
The bottom line question that needs to be asked is why is so much of training focused on a variable that does not change in well trained athletes, barely changes in moderately trained, levels off after a short period of time, and does not even correlate well with performance? Does this sound like a variable that we should be basing all of our training off of?


John



Top notch coaching: Francois and Accelerate3 | Follow on Twitter: LifetimeAthlete |
Last edited by: Devlin: Aug 21, 14 13:00
Quote Reply
Re: Someone smarter than me, computer geeks [jackmott] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thank you!
Ill look into it for sure, Ive never used GC-although I know alot of people have.
Hopefully its what Im looking for.


"What do you care?" and citing a VO2 max article, smh.
What difference does it make, Why do some people run road helmets instead of aero helmets, why one bike/shoes/goggles over another-I have my reasons. I simply asked for help regarding data. Speaking of, nowhere did I mention VO2 max. To SLIGHTLY elaborate, if all us athletes train train train-there are CHANGES, if they can be better seen or measured then that's all for the better. By looking at a complete file I will OBVIOUSLY looking at more than just VO2 max as you assumed. VO2 at different intensities will change, so yes VO2 essentially doesn't change but AT/LT/VAT can be changed.
Quote Reply