Thanks so much for posting your workouts. These are great!

Check out rappstars answer on the thread about him dropping out at kona. He answers this question directly.

Yes, I read that one. Seems like swimming some significant volume (+20k) is the way to go if one really wants to improve.

Perhaps I should have added to my post that I don't screw around with junk yardage any more. My 2-2.5K days are all work.

If I'm not tired from busting out that 2-2.5K then I didn't swim fast enough. Funny thing is that I don't do 3K to 3.5K days any more but I've gotten faster every year since.

jaretj

There's nothing wrong with swimming big days, but getting in the quality work someone who is MOP is way more important. For many people swimming 25+ minutes for 1500m, all they are doing with big yardage is enforcing bad habits. Sounds like you have it down - with the cut back in volume, you can swim faster with better form. Hopefully you still sneak in a 2k main set once per week. Those are important.

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Mike Ricci
2017 USAT World Team Coach
USAT National Coach of the Year
Coaching Triathletes since 1992.

I'm in the water 4 days right now and my saturdays are about 4K. I let the volume slip a bit in the summer though.

I've been hanging on a 23' 1500m for a while now and I think this winter I'm going to improve on that. Realistically I'd be really happy with a mid 21'

I've never really posted on any swim threads, but thought I would toss in my $.02.

Complete Adult Onset Swimmer. Swam 36:XX at Racine and 26:XX at Leon's in 2012 (and both were just pulling, no kicking).

On a whim, I joined the Guppie Challenge this summer and opted for the Finding Freestyle program. Did a Sprint in late July and swam 1:40 / 100m and felt like I coulda held that pace all day. Not fast by any Fish standards, but a significant improvement from my 2:00 / 100m days.

I have been swimming a LOT more lately due to ongoing foot injuries (PF, stress fracture in heel). Two weeks ago I logged my first ever 10K week and I am already @ 9500m for this week. MY max when I was building up to Racine in 2012 was 6-8K / week.

For me, the combination of the FF program and more meters is paying off. My feel for the water has improved significatnly, my enduracne is up and I am faster. The key for me has been getting a sense of a kick. I used to flutter kick and have now gotten comfortable with a 2 Beat kick for aerobic sets and use a 6 Beat kick for faster sets.

Don't get me wrong.....I'm still slow. I still suck. But I have a much better sense of what I am doing now and can see the improvements. I am going to continue my swim focus for the rest of 2013, hopefully increasing my meters as I go. Hopefully this allows my foot to fully heal. Then I'lll bring the bike back into it and maybe add a little aqua running. Full prep / training for IMMOO will then begin in March.

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Chicago Cubs - 2016 WORLD SERIES Champions!!!!

"If ever the time should come, when vain and aspiring men shall possess the highest seats in government, our country will stand in need of its experienced patriots to prevent its ruin." - Samuel Adams

Gee, I don't know, but Sami Inkinen and Ben Greenfield both posted 1:02 swims in Kona (Ben said that was his slowest time there). They both claim to swim about 90 minutes/week.

During a swim focus 5-7 times a week. During the season I'll probably just get in 3-4 swims a week. Mostly short.

I'm really focusing on making the yard count. If I only get 30-40 minutes, it's going to be fast, hard and high quality intervals.

I am going to start getting in at least 1 solid 70-90 minute workout once a week. Then I can get in some epic and mind numbing workouts once a month like 10x400, 20x200, 40x100 repeats, plus some good kick sets. I'm takign ot heart some comments Jordan Rapp made about kicking a lot more. When I was faster in high school and as recent as 6 years ago, I kciked a lot more. And hard kick sets too.

If I can soldier through those mentally hard sets, that 2.4 miler won't be so bad. Or I'll be burnt out by March.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Okay. I've been swimming for 2 years - no swim background at all prior.
Broke 30 a handful of times on HIM swim in year 1.
This year - 26 and change on a probably short HIM swim, a couple of 21:xx OD swims (wetsuit but poor sighting), and just over 30 on a non-wetsuit, poorly sighted Vegas swim.
On a standard 10x100y on :10 rest I'll push on ~1:25.

Most of the year I did 7 workouts every 2 weeks. Rarely does my Garmin record more than 60' of total swim time. Each workout is generally 3500-4k yards, as I've moved on to IM training, they've skewed more to 3800-5k yards. MS is usually 2500-3200y of swimming. Tack on about 1.5k of warmup/cool down and there you go.

Hope that helps.

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@adamwfurlong

As an adult-onset swimmer (25), I have noticed the biggest gains when swimming 30k + / week for 2-3 months at a time (earlier this year). That's 7-8 workouts a week, all hard.

That volume is contrasted by a more "normal" 16-20k/week when biking and running more (15ish hours/week).

And therein lies another issue with looking at an individuals results and relative training volume. Some people have biomechanics which simply make them more efficient swimmers. They have superior range of motion, flexibility, body type, that swimming comes very easily very quickly.

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-Of course it's 'effing hard, it's IRONMAN!
Team ZOOT
ZOOT, QR, Garmin, HED Wheels, Zealios, FormSwim, Precision Hydration, Rudy Project

Gone through my TrainingPeaks logs, since April 15th (when my off-season started, from AUS) I've spent 241.03hrs in the pool for 719.12ks (27ks a week on average). In the water 6 days per week (minimum).

Technically I am still an Age Grouper but transitioning into an ITU pro (hopefully) next month.

In regards to times, three years ago I couldnt swim sub 6 for 400m, now I am sub 5 in a 50m pool, generally do hard sets (3k continous) on the 1.20 base in a 25m pool

Edit to add, if you a serious about your goals, a big swim block is critical, once youve got good swim technique it wont leave, you can then back off the volume and concnetrate on the other two disciplines

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__________________________________________________
http://twitter.com/willrc91 --- instragram.com/willrc91

To answer your questions:

-- what is your weekly volume in terms of TIME spend in the pool?
-- how many days per week do you swim?
-- do you have short days, recovery days and long days or do you always spend more or less the same time in the pool?

-I am an adult onset swimmer and started at age 38 when I began training for IM Louisville in January 2010
-I swim twice a week, usually a 4000 and a 5000 SCY and not with anyone fast. I don't really feel like it's a hard workout when I'm done and I don't think I try hard enough. I think I could improve a lot by swimming with other fast people but my schedule doesn't allow me to join masters
-Total weekly time is about 2.5 hours
-I've gone 1:00 and 58:30 in wetsuit legal lake IMs and 1:00 and 1:03 in non wetsuit river IMs (Louisville)
-I don't do any drills and I pull less than 25% of the workout. I am also slower with a pull buoy
-I do up to 40x100 on a 1:30 sendoff (SCY), coming in 1:18-1:23 and do 200s on 3:00 coming in anywhere from 2:35 to 2:50
-My fastest ever 200 SCY is 2:26 and I did a 3800 non stop LCM in 1:01this summer
-Fastest 1000 SCY is 13:40, pulling I can do about 13:52

I bought paddles and fins a month ago and am starting to use them. The paddles feel weird and I'm not much faster with them or the fins although I can feel the extra work they force me to do. My bike and run need more improvement than my swim so that's why I don't swim more often.

That's what I'm saying! I'm pretty new to the swim game but I'm a descent cyclist and definitley always one of the best runners. But my swim sucks. Honestly I have only being really focusing on swimming for about a year and a half and didn't really learn how to "properly swim" i.e. not drown until two years ago. But when should I expect to see some serious improvements. I mean 1:35 for me would just be crushing it! It has to be form right? Because I know cardiovascularly I can hang with 1:35 guys on the bike and the run.

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Because the race never stops.

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What sort of times are you hoping to achieve? And what events (IM? 70.3? Olympic?)..?

If you have reasonable technique, once you have done a big block of 3-4 months, I don't think you'd need to do any more than the 10-14k per week you are doing now.

I am not sure how the REALLY good swimmers view it, but feel for the water is probably the thing that will help you a lot. And, particularly if you have a sore shoulder, I would be doing more sessions per week of shorter distances. I speak from experience with the shoulder stuff (!!!).

I should have read through the thread before I replied - you basically said what I was thinking.

We are all an N=1.
When my big weeks hit, I'm going 5 pool sessions a week and one open water race per week. Total volume is between 25,000-27,000 yards a week. 10% of that is drill & 10% is kicking. That got me to a mid-26 in a 1/2 Ironman swim. Otherwise, I enjoy the water & use it to compensate for not being able to run as much any more. Off-season I'm swimming 4 times a week and averaging around 15K.

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#swimmingmatters
Laugh hard. Run fast. Be kind.
The Doctor (#12)

2500- 3000 per week. A little more as race day nears. I already served my time (108k per week at the height). Now I'm out on parole on good behavior.

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Badig| Strava

I don't have a coach, and your post brings up a question that I have about my own training, v limited in time by 3 kids and a 60hr/week job.

Given limited hrs/week for an MOP racer, is it necessary to focus on one sport at a time for a block of 1-3 weeks, with only maintenance workouts done in the two others, to realize significant gains? I realize "significant" is the subjective word here, but I would still like opinions.

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What are you people, on dope?

—Mr. Hand

I'll quick throw in my two cents. During my triathlon season, I typically swim 5 to 6 times a week and each workout usually takes less than an hour and half. During the winter, I swim about 15 hours a week and get in about 48,000 to 50,000 in. A sample workout is below, keep in mind this is for Olympic or Half-Iron Distance races.

300 Warm-up
300 Drill (Typically split into 3x100 or 6x50)
10x25 @ :30 (Work on quicker turnover while focusing on stroke technique)

(No more than 2 minutes rest)

5x500 @ Slightly faster than goal OD pace (this means take your goal per 100 average, subtract a second to a second and half from that, and multiply by 5 to get your target time range for each 500.) 30 sec rest in between each 500

Immediately go into a 300 cool down (I usually alternate 50 kick, 50 swim)

(No more than 2 minutes rest)

100 @ 80% max effort, 30 sec rest
50 @85% max effort, 30 sec rest
2x25 @95% max effort, 30 sec rest

repeat the set above 3 to 4 times, go straight into each set

400 cool down (I usually work in paddles and a pull-buoy into this)

Ideally, minimal rest should be taken between the different sets. This workout is only 4850 yards or meters, but training at a higher intensity with minimal will help you increase speed and muscular endurance.

Probably Inkinen does have some swimming talent but also he rode 4:33 on the bike, then ran 3:18, so he very obviously has a huge engine. Viewed from this perspective, his 1:02:52 on the swim on 90 min/wk of swim training is not all that impressive since given his huge engine he could probably swim 50:xx or faster if he really trained for the swim. He has said he only trains about 12 hrs/wk total and yet goes 8:59 at Kona so prob if he turned pro he could prob go 8:30-ish.

Your "average" person with no competitive swimming background is not going to swim just under 1:03 on 1.5 hrs/wk of swimming, unless they've already done a lot of swimming as an adult and are now just maintaining their swim fitness.

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"Anyone can be who they want to be IF they have the HUNGER and the DRIVE."

Bobbing up and down makes you feel like you are swimming fast.
Thrashing around makes you feel like you are swimming fast.
Wiggling back and forth makes you feel like you are swimming fast.

Feeling fast and swimming fast are not the same thing.

It take time to develop a good swim stroke.
It also takes meaningful feed back. Race other people that are your speed and faster. Listen to a coach. Take videos of yourself.
One can talk about sets and drills and intervals etc.
It would take olympic strength and fitness, however, to make most most triathletes swim fast with the strokes that they have.

I keep things simple:

Workout 1: 10-15x100 leaving on the 1:35-1:40 depending on how spunky I feel. 30 minutes.
Workout 2: Drills - usually single arm, catch-up, side swimming, sculling, etc. I choose 4-5 drills and do several rounds of 50-100m of each. 30 minutes.
Workout 3: Steady swim - usually open water or in pool with snorkel. Time trial pace with Wetronome in cap to keep stroke steady or, depending again on how I feel, easy recovery pace.

That's it. And during winter/off-season I'll swim once per week with any fun looking 2-3K workout I pick out of a magazine, book or website.

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Ben Greenfield

Nutrition & Human Performance Advice
http://www.bengreenfieldfitness.com

Quote:

Edit to add, if you a serious about your goals, a big swim block is critical, once youve got good swim technique it wont leave, you can then back off the volume and concnetrate on the other two disciplines

Skimming through this thread, one thing stands out.

All "good" swimmers - call good a sub hour IM swim, or even sub 56, can be split into 2 groups:

1. High school/ college swimmers who put in the A LOT of time at some early point in their lives to develop the mechanics/muscle memory and technique necessary to do minimal volume, but what they do is typically very high quality. So they can swim ~2hours per week, but still hit >7k in those 2 hours

2.Adult onset swimmers who have put in a BIG training block to develop the necessary level of fitness at some point. The training after this fitness block can be more or less than others, but I think the difference-maker is that they made a commitment to get fast.

The point is - swimming a decent or even above average for a consistent period of time will likely only get you to be consistently average, or consistently above average, but not "serious." If you want to get to a high level of swim fitness, take 3-6 months of real swimming (think High school age group level). Get to the sub 5min for 400 meter mark, and then back off to achieve a better balance with the other two disciplines.

As always - you will have outliers, adult onset swimmers who swim a lot and still suck. Adult onset swimmers who swim a little and are really fast.

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Thoughts on being an Urban Triathlete