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Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
The GMAN wrote:


It's no different than Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, Felt, and probably every other bike manufacturer on the planet. The support is for the initial owner.


Uhh, you know that is not true, right? You are almost completely wrong, in fact.

In what regard am I wrong?

I get that Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, Felt and other bike bike manufacturers don't have different pricing for original customers vs not original customers for their products but they also don't sell bikes direct like Dimond does.

Tell me what kind of support the second owner is going to get from Trek, Cervelo, Specialized, or Felt should there be an issue with the bike? I stand by my statement that you won't get much support from any of them if you're not the original owner. There are rights and privileges extended to the original owner that do not extend to subsequent owners. For example, none of those manufacturers has a transferable warranty.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jonkoping 70.3, Jonkoping, Sweden, July 8th | Waco 70.3, Waco, TX, October 28th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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Any customer of a brand you mention, be they first owners or second owners or third owners, can get a product through their retailer of any part of their bike that they want. There is no pricing structure that separates first owners from any other owner. WARRANTY, yes...that is different. This issue is not related to a manufacturer's defect. Heck, if this OP owned a P5 or other Cervelo they might offer him crash replacement on a new fork for that matter. Even if he was the 4th owner of the bike.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [New3901] [ In reply to ]
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New3901 wrote:
I think if I buy a new fork or any other part for my used Specialized it's going to cost about the same as if I would have bought it new, and the same holds true for my new Giant. This is not a warranty/support issue, it's a simple parts transaction that has many levels of problems.

I get that but that's not how Dimond operates. They have different pricing for some products for original customers. Specialized and Giant also don't sell bikes directly to consumers and have an entirely different scale of operations and distro network.

Would it also shock you to know that Dimond customers can get the new Marquise frameset for less than half the retail price?

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jonkoping 70.3, Jonkoping, Sweden, July 8th | Waco 70.3, Waco, TX, October 28th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.
Last edited by: clutchy: Apr 8, 17 10:50
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [James Haycraft] [ In reply to ]
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James Haycraft wrote:
Any customer of a brand you mention, be they first owners or second owners or third owners, can get a product through their retailer of any part of their bike that they want. There is no pricing structure that separates first owners from any other owner. WARRANTY, yes...that is different. This issue is not related to a manufacturer's defect. Heck, if this OP owned a P5 or other Cervelo they might offer him crash replacement on a new fork for that matter. Even if he was the 4th owner of the bike.

We all get that but we're talking a direct marketed boutique brand vs bikes sold in retail shops. It's just a different animal in that regard. The support is going to be different. Some people don't like that but it is what it is.

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jonkoping 70.3, Jonkoping, Sweden, July 8th | Waco 70.3, Waco, TX, October 28th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [clutchy] [ In reply to ]
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clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.

I've given them money, and received goods. Then I tried to purchase more goods with more money. How am I not a customer?
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.

I've given them money, and received goods. Then I tried to purchase more goods with more money. How am I not a customer?

Gave who money? Maybe I misunderstood.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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I agree with you. I don't agree with the post that stated this action was like all other bike manufacturers. And this manufactured can run his business anyway he sees fit. If it was me...nobody gets a $600 Fork or discounted parts for a $5000+ bike because I know you will pay the premium.
I am also not surprised that they can discount up to 50% off because all bike are overpriced, but we keep shelling out the coin for them like they are bread and milk on a snow day in the South East US. Myself included.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [clutchy] [ In reply to ]
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clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
clutchy wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
getbarreled wrote:
but it would take a serious gesture on their part to make me ever put that brand out on the road!


2. You feel entitled to get the fork at the misquoted price. Can you elaborate on why you feel Dimond should 'own [their] fuck up' for your benefit?


I had to reply to this one because it's so surprising to me.
Ericlambi, it's pretty much an all industries standard practice and basic customer service 101. When you make a mistake, you own it and do your best to favor the customer in the mistake, in order to keep customer relations strong. This is a really basic concept.[/reply]


I don't have any skin in this game but I'm sure you're actually a customer; owner yes, customer? maybe not. This is boutique manufacturer.

I've given them money, and received goods. Then I tried to purchase more goods with more money. How am I not a customer?

Gave who money? Maybe I misunderstood.

My bad. I talked about it later in the thread but should have just been clear from the beginning that I had already purchased a set of parts from them to build up the bike (seatpost, bottom bracket, upper and lower cable doors, etc)
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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[quote getbarreledI don't think I would have the successful business that I do if I took their approach. Regardless of who on Slowtwitch thinks I'm a "self entitled jerk", looking to "rip people off", I can say that in my own life and business, I practice what I preach.[/quote]
You know, this thread annoyed me enough that I actually spoke to Brad about it. He confirmed that the way your conversation went is basically how JayPeeWhy theorized, which is that you were not upfront about being a second owner. So you are super ethical and successful, but feel the need to try to weasel your way into a deal on a bike fork and throw a tantrum when it doesn't work out.

Ride for show, run for dough.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
[quote getbarreledI don't think I would have the successful business that I do if I took their approach. Regardless of who on Slowtwitch thinks I'm a "self entitled jerk", looking to "rip people off", I can say that in my own life and business, I practice what I preach.

You know, this thread annoyed me enough that I actually spoke to Brad about it. He confirmed that the way your conversation went is basically how JayPeeWhy theorized, which is that you were not upfront about being a second owner. So you are super ethical and successful, but feel the need to try to weasel your way into a deal on a bike fork and throw a tantrum when it doesn't work out.[/quote]
That's a fucking lie and I think even less of him now. He's the first person I ever spoke with at Dimond when I purchased the bike through Pros Closet. Exact words of the phone conversation were,
Me: "I just bought a used dimond bike frame from a shop out of Boulder Colorado and I need to purchase some of the missing parts."
Brad: " OK, was that like through Pro's Closet or something?"
Me: " yes, that's exactly where I bought it."
Brad: " OK, what parts do you need?"

If he said I was not upfront about it being used, then he has a very selective memory or he's a flat out liar trying to cover himself because there are at least a few people that sympathize with my side of this argument and it doesn't look that good for him or the brand.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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Sounds like he is aware of the thread, he can speak for himself.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.

Team Semper Fi
just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
Last edited by: way2sloow: Apr 8, 17 13:44
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [way2sloow] [ In reply to ]
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way2sloow wrote:
Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.


That's entirely not the case. They aren't pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale. That's just ridiculous.

They don't double the price of the part for the used buyer. The price of the Super Fork was always $1200. Go look at any of the press related to its introduction last year. They discounted the price for existing owners who wanted to upgrade to the Super Fork. Period. I bought my Dimond when the Super Fork was just released early last year. I had a choice between the old 3T Funda fork or the Super Fork. I chose the Super Fork and paid... wait for it... $1200. So new buyers also paid $1200 for the fork. What's your argument now?

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jonkoping 70.3, Jonkoping, Sweden, July 8th | Waco 70.3, Waco, TX, October 28th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
Last edited by: The GMAN: Apr 8, 17 14:18
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
way2sloow wrote:
Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.


That's entirely not the case. They aren't pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale. That's just ridiculous.

They don't double the price of the part for the used buyer. The price of the Super Fork was always $1200. Go look at any of the press related to its introduction last year. They discounted the price for existing owners who wanted to upgrade to the Super Fork. Period. I bought my Dimond when the Super Fork was just released early last year. I had a choice between the old 3T Funda fork or the Super Fork. I chose the Super Fork and paid... wait for it... $1200. So new buyers also paid $1200 for the fork. What's your argument now?

I stand corrected. Makes more sense now.

Team Semper Fi
just your average age grouper . no one special . no scientific knowledge . just having fun.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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In fact, ericlambi, how quickly does Brad's new stance that I was not upfront about being an original owner, crumble under its own weight when we talk about how fiercely they are supposed to know and tend to their customers? How is it possible that is even the case when he had already sold me a variety of replacement products for the used bike I had ordered? Are Dimond owners regularly calling and ordering a new uncut seatpost, a set of cable guide doors, a bottom bracket, and calling asking about headset sizes and setups? The fork issue didn't come about till well after all of these exchanges had happened. How does that stack up?
The fact that you have the ability to contact him on the weekend implies that maybe you are friends or at least reasonably close acquaintances. If that's the case, I understand your feeling compelled to believe him over some dude on the web. Unfortunately for him, that story just doesn't stack up at all.
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 8, 17 14:39
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [801pe] [ In reply to ]
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801pe wrote:
Sounds like he is aware of the thread, he can speak for himself.

I hope he does.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
The fact that you have the ability to contact him on the weekend implies that maybe you are friends or at least reasonably close acquaintances.

I can't speak for Eric on this one but Dimond has a secret Facebook page that Brad pretty much runs. Any of us who are members of the secret page can get in touch with Brad quite easily. Plus any of us that have bought a Dimond probably have Brad's email info. He's very easy to contact.


You would know all this if you were an original owner!

^ That's a joke by the way :-)

2018 Races:
Oceanside 70.3, Oceanside, CA, April 7th | Ironman Texas, The Woodlands, TX, April 28th | Finland 70.3, Lahti, Finland, June 30th | Jonkoping 70.3, Jonkoping, Sweden, July 8th | Waco 70.3, Waco, TX, October 28th

Gear: Dimond Bikes | Desoto Sport | Hoka One One
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
He's very easy to contact.


You would know all this if you were an original owner!

^ That's a joke by the way :-)

LOW BLOW!!!!

;-) good one!
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.

Ride for show, run for dough.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [The GMAN] [ In reply to ]
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The GMAN wrote:
way2sloow wrote:
Anybody will treat a customer well if you pay them $10,000. They got their money for the original bike. It appears that they are pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale and are trying to make up for it by gouging the secondary user. I'm sorry, product costs are product costs. Doubling the price of a part because the buyer is not the original owner is poor service and business.

If you have "Dimond" anywhere in your signature--IMO your response to their customer service adds nothing.


That's entirely not the case. They aren't pissed they didn't get a cut of the resale. That's just ridiculous.

They don't double the price of the part for the used buyer. The price of the Super Fork was always $1200. Go look at any of the press related to its introduction last year. They discounted the price for existing owners who wanted to upgrade to the Super Fork. Period. I bought my Dimond when the Super Fork was just released early last year. I had a choice between the old 3T Funda fork or the Super Fork. I chose the Super Fork and paid... wait for it... $1200. So new buyers also paid $1200 for the fork. What's your argument now?

Ah.

Bit clearer now. Sorry OP, I don't really see a problem with Dimond/Brad.
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.


This was what I was thinking after reading the first post.

OP - I didn't feel you were trying to be entitled, etc. But the bottom line is, whether by mistake, brain fart, whatever, you were quoted a price that seems to have been a mistake. As GMAN said, new owners (like myself) paid more to upgrade to the better fork (ie. upgrading to 'brilliant' instead of 'xcut'). If Dimond honors the 600 price, thats kind of offensive to their customers who bought new. Just my .02.

Sorry to hear you are returning the bike, they are pretty cool.

One question you haven't answered, just out of interest, what specifically was wrong with the original fork? In the pics on ebay, it looks like it should have no problem fitting a stem, even if without many/any spacers underneath. Was there some sort of damage to it?
Last edited by: SBRcoffee: Apr 8, 17 15:27
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [ericlambi] [ In reply to ]
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ericlambi wrote:
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.

How do you go from "he says your weren't upfront and are trying to weasel a deal", to "I misread and his original email coroberates everything you said."

WHAT?

And yeah, the whole point is that HE quoted a price, then doubled it, then said pound sand if I don't like it, with a flimsy exception offered only if I brought him someone to buy a full priced bike.
Here's an idea, be a bro about it. Call me up like a person and say, "dude, I made a mistake and I know it sucks but I can't honor it. How can we work it out? We want you to ride a that bike."
Never even admitted his mistake. Just never denied it and then tipped his hand with, I've "never sold one to a NON customer, and I don't plan to start."
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [SBRcoffee] [ In reply to ]
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SBRcoffee wrote:
ericlambi wrote:
You know what, I have to apologize. I re-read the e-mail conversation I had with Brad and I misinterpreted what he said. Correct, he knew you bought the bike second hand. He made a mistake quoting the fork. He changed the price to the correct one when he realized the mistake. Sounds like he spent a fair bit of time trying to help you with the purchase of the second hand bike. Sorry it hasn't worked out, good luck.


This was what I was thinking after reading the first post.

OP - I didn't feel you were trying to be entitled, etc. But the bottom line is, whether by mistake, brain fart, whatever, you were quoted a price that seems to have been a mistake. As GMAN said, new owners (like myself) paid more to upgrade to the better fork (ie. upgrading to 'brilliant' instead of 'xcut'). If Dimond honors the 600 price, thats kind of offensive to their customers who bought new. Just my .02.

Sorry to hear you are returning the bike, they are pretty cool.

One question you haven't answered, just out of interest, what specifically was wrong with the original fork? In the pics on ebay, it looks like it should have no problem fitting a stem, even if without many/any spacers underneath. Was there some sort of damage to it?


Fair enough. I see it different and if Brad had made more effort to own his mistake, even if he still could not make $600 happen, I think he could have done more to try to just "be cool" about it. Not treat me like a burden to get rid of by saying he actually has no intent of ever selling a fork to a "non-customer."

I don't know how to attach a pic. The steerer was cut WAAAAYYYY too short. With crown race, headset, and lowest dust cap, there was maybe 1/4" of steerer left to get a stem on. Not safe in mine or the opinion of a variety of bike pros. Could have probably sold it to someone with a small or xsmall but I just got turned off pretty bad.

No one is more bummed than me. I have adored Dimond bikes since I first saw one. Ask anyone that knows me. I've often referred to it as "my dream bike!"
Last edited by: getbarreled: Apr 8, 17 15:57
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Re: Secondhand Dimond [getbarreled] [ In reply to ]
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getbarreled wrote:
How do you go from "he says your weren't upfront and are trying to weasel a deal", to "I misread and his original email coroberates everything you said."

WHAT?

The e-mail was speed typed on his phone with some massive spelling mistakes, which caused me to interpret him saying something different than what he was saying. Basically, I thought he said he spent a lot of time on the phone with you before you told him you bought the bike second hand, but he in fact said that he spent a lot of time on the phone with you before you bought the bike second hand. Again, my apologies with regards to that misinterpretation. Brad certainly never charged you with being a weasel, that was me. I stand by my general criticisms of you muckraking Dimond over a simple pricing mistake: the fact that you started this thread is completely ridiculous.

Ride for show, run for dough.
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