Triathlon Forum

Dec 6, 17 2:22

Post #51 of 118 (2508 views)

I am pretty confident when I say this, you do not have the self awareness to know whether you attacked someone

Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Slowman

Dec 6, 17 6:26

Post #52 of 118 (2429 views)

h2ofun wrote:

Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo.

dave, both your statements above can't be true. you either:

1. didn't read my article on orthodoxy; or
2. no, you aren't a good engineer.

challenging the status quo and always asking why are fine attributes, but are entirely beside the point.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

ryans

Dec 6, 17 6:56

Post #53 of 118 (2393 views)

Slowman wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo.

To be fair both of your statements can be (and very likely are) true Slowman. They are not mutually exclusive. Dave can both have not read your article and not be a good engineer.

Ryan

Re: ST as a mirror for society [ryans] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:07

Post #54 of 118 (2379 views)

I have to say i have revised my opinion of Dave. He is more David Brent than David Brent. The campbell rebels.........

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:32

Post #55 of 118 (2347 views)

Steve-oH! wrote:

Toby wrote:

You could also look at it as, even after all those pages and posts of vitriol, a great number of people are attempting to honestly help a person who is actively insulting them and their help. That makes it heartwarming.

I've asked this before and no one answered...for those that have met him in real life, is this guy as big a douche in person as he is on line?.....

Come by my place in Auburn and you can answer your question. I have a guest room you can stay in. And we can do some testing on the velotrons.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Blee] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:36

Post #56 of 118 (2339 views)

Blee wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo. Drove folks nuts in life that were orthidox belivers. Great things came from folks who were willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. I respect folks who can debate give facts and leave the personal egos at the door. When frank is done with me you will then get the chance to see if his result you think is nuts and non orthodox. Then i will race and see what happens. What if my bike times get better?

Purely out of curiosity, what kind of engineer are you?

I spent 30 years in mfg as a systems engineer working on the top end computer solutions. I was the main interface working on the new product introductions working with all the other groups for the release. The lab, QA, marketing, etc. My job was to find issues, get them fixed which at times was not easy since folks always thought they had no issues. I had to make sure customers got the product correct, working and no bugs. Was NOT an easy job since as I said, every group I had to go see with an issue ALWAYS started that they were right and never could have made a mistake. So my job was always trying to find the needle in the hay stack before a customer did.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Blee] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:43

Post #57 of 118 (2326 views)

Blee wrote:

Also second question, if your bike times do improve next season, how do you allocate credit for that? Definitely please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time you've really taken effort to optimize your bike training, and you also mentioned you finally got a real fitting or are getting one? So how do you allocate credit to Frank vs. those factors?

No, I have spent plenty of time working on bike training focus! And again, comparing my bike time against folks my age, I clearly hold my own. Why so many want to compare a 60 year old guys bike times with a 30 year old is nuts. Now on running, :)

If my bike times improve more, where will the credit go? First it would be folks on ST getting me to have a bike fit. Yea, I give credit where credit is due. But this happened at the same time that I finally gave into Frank to try shorter cranks, which directly impact bike fit. I never ever would have been able to select a crank length without Franks help, and pushing, meaning, now way would I EVER had tried 150 cranks!!! Now why would I have ever guessed I could have climbed Martis a little faster on 150's than 175's, let alone my 200's.
Without Franks support, I never would have thought I might be more efficient on the bike with 150 cranks spinning around 70 rpm.

So, Frank is far from done with me in his testing. So even though many like to attack me that I do not listen to ST inputs, they are just flat out wrong. But so many are just flat out wrong that Frank does not know what he is talking about. Shall see what happens racing, with maybe the first one in about 7 weeks.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:45

Post #58 of 118 (2317 views)

Steve-oH! wrote:

Toby wrote:

I've asked this before and no one answered...for those that have met him in real life, is this guy as big a douche in person as he is on line?.....

There are LOTS and LOTS of folks who I have interfaced with directly who are on ST. I let folks comments on how they treat others in writing tell all that needs to be said.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:46

Post #59 of 118 (2312 views)

You have the opinion that short cranks produces a fit which is not safe. Can you please provide data to support this conclusion.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:50

Post #60 of 118 (2300 views)

Ai_1 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Slowman wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Slowman wrote:

mauricemaher wrote:

Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.

i see no value in contributing to a thread where minds are already made up.

yep, but still wish you would offer your 2 cents. This is not about being "right" or "wrong". It is just debating, which as I have stated, seems to be a lost art.
Everyone just wants to get their way and personal. This is just hobby stuff.

Oh well, I bet in the future we will find that social media was one of the worst things that came out of the internet.

You still going to do a bike fit on me in Rocklin? :)

It would be my pleasure to fit you in rocklin this year. Between now and then, I encourage you to experiment. I also encourage you to do that with full acknowledgement of the primacy on this issue of Damon Rinard and bio McGeek. Read my front page thingy on orthodoxy and know that thee 2 guy
s are the keepers of orthodox fact here.

Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo. Drove folks nuts in life that were orthidox belivers. Great things came from folks who were willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. I respect folks who can debate give facts and leave the personal egos at the door. When frank is done with me you will then get the chance to see if his result you think is nuts and non orthodox. Then i will race and see what happens. What if my bike times get better?

I'm an engineer too. I too love to look beyond the accepted solutions for something better. But if it's not better, I like to think I'm capable of recognising and accepting that. You cling to the notion that you're different and that you can find a better way with such ferocity that you can't recognise when you're fooling yourself.

There is nothing wrong with looking for something different and better. It's an extremely valuable approach. However, it's absolutely essential that you are as critical of your own ideas as you are of others. The burden of evidence is greater on you when you are claiming to know better than everyone else. I do not consider your general approach, as I've observed it on ST, to satisfy due rigor or even basic logic. Your arguments are more storyline than critical analysis. Typically, when you run out of logical answers to criticism you turn to insulting your critics and bragging about your performances. These are not the traits I would expect of a good engineer.

And no, I don't expect a satisfying response to this post!

Looks like we can agree to disagree. I have passion for everything I do in life. Some love it, some hate it. Just ask my poor wife and kids. :) Always amazed me at work, or where I live. When someone needed something to be done, who did they call. :)

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:51

Post #61 of 118 (2297 views)

Slowman wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo.

I read your article, so I guess I suck as an engineer.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 7:55

Post #62 of 118 (2291 views)

Petty sure it did not amaze You, just fed your sense of self worth

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Andrewmc] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 8:02

Post #63 of 118 (2277 views)

Andrewmc wrote:

Petty sure it did not amaze You, just fed your sense of self worth

Thanks

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

sebo2000

Dec 6, 17 8:05

Post #64 of 118 (2272 views)

Bio_McGeek wrote:

Oh the irony.
I returned to ST seeking a refuge from the news these days. Everything in the news and on my social media is so contentious with meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
So I return to ST and see a thread on crank length, a topic on which I have an interest and might have something to contribute. And what did I find in that thread? Meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
I guess the only refuge is to be off line.
Sigh,
Jim

+1, or create internet V2 without commercial BS

Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Ai_1

Dec 6, 17 8:07

Post #65 of 118 (2268 views)

h2ofun wrote:

Ai_1 wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Slowman wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Slowman wrote:

mauricemaher wrote:

Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.

i see no value in contributing to a thread where minds are already made up.

So it's the stories and self praise option this time, huh?

How do you come to the conclusion we've agreed to disagree? ...and on which topic?

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Ai_1] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 8:20

Post #66 of 118 (2250 views)

https://tenor.com/vBjW.gif

Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Jan de Visser

Dec 6, 17 8:20

Post #67 of 118 (2250 views)

h2ofun wrote:

You have the opinion that short cranks produces a fit which is not safe. Can you please provide data to support this conclusion.

OK, here goes my "reading comprehension for h2ofun" segment again... I expect nothing less than an ad hominem as a reply.

No, he's not saying that. What he is saying is that in his opinion, in your particular case, due to your particular fit, going too short may cause safety issues. Note all the qualifiers there. His reasoning is that you already have a pretty huge stack of spacers on your fork, and going to shorter cranks means your saddle needs to go up, which in turn means that (everything else being equal) your bars need to go up, which means even more spacers. This means you may eventually run out of headset tube, which implies not being able to securely attach your bars. That's what he's saying.

Citizen of the world, former drunkard. Resident Traumatic Brain Injury advocate.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

David_Tris

Dec 6, 17 8:20

Post #68 of 118 (2250 views)

"one sock puppet" - love this.

I'm closer to the feathered end of the spear than the point.

Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

mauricemaher

Dec 6, 17 8:25

Post #69 of 118 (2242 views)

h2ofun wrote:

You have the opinion that short cranks produces a fit which is not safe. Can you please provide data to support this conclusion.

You tell me, re-read my posts and see how that applies to your situation.

BTW crank length isn't a safety issue in and of itself. Really don't understand where you got that from.

Take a look at your current fit and tell me how you intend to raise the bars safely? IE 2-4cm.

Best of luck,

Re: ST as a mirror for society [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

elf6c

Dec 6, 17 8:26

Post #70 of 118 (2241 views)

one wonders how much long this will be allowed to go on given the long track record

Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Slowman

Dec 6, 17 8:28

Post #71 of 118 (2236 views)

h2ofun wrote:

Slowman wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo.

I read your article, so I guess I suck as an engineer.

dave, here are natural contrarians who gain some sort of emotional benefit from being contrary, as if being contrary was the point; versus those who are contrary only when orthodoxy fails to suffice.

so let's take that guy who either did, or intends to, fly in his own rocket to prove the earth is flat. is this guy a good engineer? in a limited sense, perhaps, if he lives through his experiment.

but science, medicine, engineering is built in a shared consensus. there are some axioms in life. some things we all need to agree on.

you seem to have built your personal brand around a refutation of as many axioms as possible. it seems like a struggle, a physical pain, for you to admit and agree and assent to anything mainstream. that guy who built his own rocket may nominally be an acceptable tinkerer, but he's apparently determined not to add any value to anyone other than himself.

you have to begin with orthodoxy. accept it. honor it. honor the value of adhering to it. you only earn the right to diverge when you create a better method or product, which is only better because it's demonstrable. but here's the bad news for you, dave: then your method becomes the new orthodoxy. either way, you're tethered to orthodoxy.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman

Re: ST as a mirror for society [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 8:55

Post #72 of 118 (2194 views)

mauricemaher wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

You have the opinion that short cranks produces a fit which is not safe. Can you please provide data to support this conclusion.

How will I raise, easy. Just like I did on my tri bike I converted to a road bike for DL racing. I puchased an adjustable stem that goes up.

Again, folks make a statement that my fit, which is not even done, will not be safe. So, since I would be concerned if there are facts to show this is true, I am asking,
where are the facts to prove this statement of your opinion?

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Slowman] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

Dec 6, 17 9:00

Post #73 of 118 (2188 views)

Slowman wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Slowman wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo.

I read your article, so I guess I suck as an engineer.

I guess we again just agree to disagree. I have a long track record in my life coming up with better methods or products that were outside the accepted norm.

But oh well, I am far from perfect, and have yet to meet a perfect person. AND, I will never lower myself to personally attack others. Just below me. Question them, yep, but snowflake them, no thanks, I have better things to do.

I did ask you some questions in the velotron tread about bike fit. Since there are SO many threads about crank length, sure seems like it is a topic that is far from having a single answer.

I have no personal brand other than when folks say things are, and have to be a certain way, I just like to ask why. It is their choice to go nuts and attack. Is a glass half full or half empty?

Do you have a date for Rocklin yet? Would still be great to do a race together and you can kick my butt and ST can celebrate. :)

Re: ST as a mirror for society [Richard Blaine] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

mauricemaher

Dec 6, 17 9:11

Post #74 of 118 (2174 views)

Richard Blaine wrote:

h2ofun wrote:

You have the opinion that short cranks produces a fit which is not safe. Can you please provide data to support this conclusion.

Thanks,

I was bonking...loosing energy, Dave is relentless. I'll give him that ;-)

Cheers,
Maurice

Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]

Quote | Reply

OneGoodLeg

Dec 6, 17 9:33

Post #75 of 118 (2142 views)

h2ofun wrote:

...

I guess we again just agree to disagree. I have a long track record in my life coming up with better methods or products that were outside the accepted norm.

But oh well, I am far from perfect, and have yet to meet a perfect person. AND, I will never lower myself to personally attack others. Just below me. Question them, yep, but snowflake them, no thanks, I have better things to do.

I did ask you some questions in the velotron tread about bike fit. Since there are SO many threads about crank length, sure seems like it is a topic that is far from having a single answer.

I have no personal brand other than when folks say things are, and have to be a certain way, I just like to ask why. It is their choice to go nuts and attack. Is a glass half full or half empty?

Do you have a date for Rocklin yet? Would still be great to do a race together and you can kick my butt and ST can celebrate. :)

BWAHAHAHHAAHHAAA! That's fucking comical coming from you. A good engineer, when troubleshooting a problem, would note the one variable that all these other issues have in common and surmise that the common factor is the root source of the dysfunction... but no ~ in your mind, you're still right and all these other independent actors are somehow still full of shit, every one. Same as it ever was.

The self-delusion is strong with this one.....

But go ahead, carry on.