Login required to started new threads

Login required to post replies

Prev Next
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Oh the irony.
I returned to ST seeking a refuge from the news these days. Everything in the news and on my social media is so contentious with meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
So I return to ST and see a thread on crank length, a topic on which I have an interest and might have something to contribute. And what did I find in that thread? Meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
I guess the only refuge is to be off line.
Sigh,
Jim


Yep, most folks have lost the art to be able to debate.

ok who else literally lol'd at this? my co-workers were giving me funny looks
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
damon_rinard wrote:
pk wrote:
...but I do think it also drives people away.


Hey, I resemble that remark!

Really, I do. I avoid threads started by, or taken over by, H2Ofun.


Very professional. I guess I know what products to avoid.

I just don't get your point here...how is what Mr. Rinard wrote above "unprofessional"? Seems pretty mild...he was just stating his opinion. This is exactly why people cannot debate at the moment...because when someone else opinion doesn't fall directly in line with whomever...they act offended...there have been worse things written, but you want to call him out because of who he is...or where he works...

Dude...get over it...
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mauricemaher wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Oh the irony.
I returned to ST seeking a refuge from the news these days. Everything in the news and on my social media is so contentious with meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
So I return to ST and see a thread on crank length, a topic on which I have an interest and might have something to contribute. And what did I find in that thread? Meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
I guess the only refuge is to be off line.
Sigh,
Jim


Here's the deal,

In spite of 6-10 threads and a combined post count of at least a thousand, this isn't about crank arm length..AT ALL, it's about safety...and Dave's possible desire to buy a new bike.

IIRC it was back in the Diamond back thread before all this started I told dave that due to lower BB drop and shorter FC he will have to go away from 200's due to safety, basically he would bottom out or hit the front wheel with toe overlap and things that would happen would be worse than say "not tightening your seat post" or "putting your large front chain ring on backwards".

So this year or next he will buy a new bike, simply because based on some of the original pics...he has scary stem stack (fork spacers) and that will only get worse....by the time he settles on position that stack or perhaps according leverage on the steerer tube would be REALLY bad. IE dangerous, IE I wouldn't ride it.

So...back to the thread(s)....in most reasonable threads people who don't know come on here, get reasonable advise from say 10-20 people and some odd stuff from 1-2 (IE tire choice etc) most "reasonable" people look at the arguments, perhaps science behind that and make "reasonable and appropriate decisions based on said input.

To be fair Dave is wired very differently...IE I don't think he's a Troll, I honestly believe that he believes his version of reality to be true. He is not targeting one person (IE AC trolls) or selling shit. Basically he thinks he is right. But for some to think or validate that they are right they have this innate desire for everyone else to disagree with them.

So Dave is faced with a CR of 175 or under, because of what comes stock with new bikes. I predict this year or next Dave will be riding a very large (New) disc brake bike (Andean) with CR of 165-175 (simply because Dave is too cheap to buy after market) reasonable seat height and angle and fork spacers which don't scare the shit out of me.

Anyways, IMO the threads have been interesting and of good value...some of your links have made be go back and re-read the research (and then get stuck in the rabbit hole of google and other papers) some of Dave Luscan and Trents posts on the "holistic" nature of fit have, and should be looked at. I think most of ST is seeing or perhaps learning a bit from these.

Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.

Anyways just my 2c

Maurice

My change has zero to do with safety!! I buy what I need, which is why I purchased 3 sets of 200 cranks at 450 each. I also bought in installed square bottom brackets in my 2 P2 cervelo's.

Who knows what crank length, which directly impacts fits, and my RPM focus will end up being. But I am having fun gather data to see. If the end results is what the "experts" say, great. But so far I am not seeing data that supports the experts opinions.

IMO, your post hits on what I see as the issue in our society now, which is so many believe their opinion is the ONLY right opinion, even with no facts and data to support. Then when someone has the guts to challenge them, they just go nuts and attack, which is why I call them snowflakes. So many just cannot debate. If bike fit and crank length only had one answer, then all these folks asking about it would have no reason to.

Oh well, life is fun

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
IMO, your post hits on what I see as the issue in our society now, which is so many believe their opinion is the ONLY right opinion, even with no facts and data to support. Then when someone has the guts to challenge them, they just go nuts and attack, which is why I call them snowflakes. So many just cannot debate. If bike fit and crank length only had one answer, then all these folks asking about it would have no reason to.

The ironing here...

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Listen Fisher, you would not know what data, rigour, repeatability, reproducibility, multifactorial or experimental science in general was, even if it stood in front of you and punched you repeatedly in the face (That's not a "forge" like threat in case anyone gets offended. I live probably 7-10k miles away from the bromantics)

The degree of wilfull ignorance is astounding.

It's like meeting a creationist who wants to argue with you about evolution or a flat earther about whether the earth is round.......
Last edited by: Andrewmc: Dec 5, 17 14:36
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [zooropa] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
zooropa wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
damon_rinard wrote:
pk wrote:
...but I do think it also drives people away.


Hey, I resemble that remark!

Really, I do. I avoid threads started by, or taken over by, H2Ofun.


Very professional. I guess I know what products to avoid.


I just don't get your point here...how is what Mr. Rinard wrote above "unprofessional"? Seems pretty mild...he was just stating his opinion. This is exactly why people cannot debate at the moment...because when someone else opinion doesn't fall directly in line with whomever...they act offended...there have been worse things written, but you want to call him out because of who he is...or where he works...

Dude...get over it...

You missed the point. He did not post as a person. He posted, IMO, based on his tag line, as a company employee, basically attacking a potential customer. Maybe that is okay in your job, but I sure never in my job attacked a potential customer.

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
AYKM?


And you like to call others snowflakes???

How did he attack you?


He only said he avoids yours posts/threads...

If anything in history has called for it...this has...


Wow...just...WOW!
Last edited by: zooropa: Dec 5, 17 15:11
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Oh the irony.
I returned to ST seeking a refuge from the news these days. Everything in the news and on my social media is so contentious with meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
So I return to ST and see a thread on crank length, a topic on which I have an interest and might have something to contribute. And what did I find in that thread? Meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
I guess the only refuge is to be off line.
Sigh,
Jim


Here's the deal,

In spite of 6-10 threads and a combined post count of at least a thousand, this isn't about crank arm length..AT ALL, it's about safety...and Dave's possible desire to buy a new bike.

IIRC it was back in the Diamond back thread before all this started I told dave that due to lower BB drop and shorter FC he will have to go away from 200's due to safety, basically he would bottom out or hit the front wheel with toe overlap and things that would happen would be worse than say "not tightening your seat post" or "putting your large front chain ring on backwards".

So this year or next he will buy a new bike, simply because based on some of the original pics...he has scary stem stack (fork spacers) and that will only get worse....by the time he settles on position that stack or perhaps according leverage on the steerer tube would be REALLY bad. IE dangerous, IE I wouldn't ride it.

So...back to the thread(s)....in most reasonable threads people who don't know come on here, get reasonable advise from say 10-20 people and some odd stuff from 1-2 (IE tire choice etc) most "reasonable" people look at the arguments, perhaps science behind that and make "reasonable and appropriate decisions based on said input.

To be fair Dave is wired very differently...IE I don't think he's a Troll, I honestly believe that he believes his version of reality to be true. He is not targeting one person (IE AC trolls) or selling shit. Basically he thinks he is right. But for some to think or validate that they are right they have this innate desire for everyone else to disagree with them.

So Dave is faced with a CR of 175 or under, because of what comes stock with new bikes. I predict this year or next Dave will be riding a very large (New) disc brake bike (Andean) with CR of 165-175 (simply because Dave is too cheap to buy after market) reasonable seat height and angle and fork spacers which don't scare the shit out of me.

Anyways, IMO the threads have been interesting and of good value...some of your links have made be go back and re-read the research (and then get stuck in the rabbit hole of google and other papers) some of Dave Luscan and Trents posts on the "holistic" nature of fit have, and should be looked at. I think most of ST is seeing or perhaps learning a bit from these.

Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.

Anyways just my 2c

Maurice

My change has zero to do with safety!! I buy what I need, which is why I purchased 3 sets of 200 cranks at 450 each. I also bought in installed square bottom brackets in my 2 P2 cervelo's.

Who knows what crank length, which directly impacts fits, and my RPM focus will end up being. But I am having fun gather data to see. If the end results is what the "experts" say, great. But so far I am not seeing data that supports the experts opinions.

IMO, your post hits on what I see as the issue in our society now, which is so many believe their opinion is the ONLY right opinion, even with no facts and data to support. Then when someone has the guts to challenge them, they just go nuts and attack, which is why I call them snowflakes. So many just cannot debate. If bike fit and crank length only had one answer, then all these folks asking about it would have no reason to.

Oh well, life is fun

Dave,

First and foremost my hope is that you understand fit has 100% to do with safety, for both you and others.

Second, I honestly hope that I am not the poster boy for “what’s wrong with society” our shit is paid for including our house, and basically we are free to pursue “life, liberty and security of person” as we see fit and legal under the law.

Third, as I previously mentioned you are primarily testing cranks from 175 down, why? Why not 180, 177.5,182.5., 190 etc.

Basically, you are free to do what you want, but please understand that within your comments regarding fit, very obviously safety is the 100% concern, for yourself...but equally important for others.

So, in a technical fashion as I stated . you are stuck with a dangerous situation for you and others if you fit on an old P2, if you go with 175’s or lower....your choice.

Cheers,
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [damon_rinard] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Likewise. He's the only person I've ever used the ST mute function on. Which is also a great reminder to log in every time I visit the site.

ETA: granted, now that he's bagged another post by another person who enjoys a little credibility here, he wins...at whatever game he's playing. mea culpa.

Carl Matson
Last edited by: Carl: Dec 5, 17 15:32
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mauricemaher wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Oh the irony.
I returned to ST seeking a refuge from the news these days. Everything in the news and on my social media is so contentious with meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
So I return to ST and see a thread on crank length, a topic on which I have an interest and might have something to contribute. And what did I find in that thread? Meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
I guess the only refuge is to be off line.
Sigh,
Jim


Here's the deal,

In spite of 6-10 threads and a combined post count of at least a thousand, this isn't about crank arm length..AT ALL, it's about safety...and Dave's possible desire to buy a new bike.

IIRC it was back in the Diamond back thread before all this started I told dave that due to lower BB drop and shorter FC he will have to go away from 200's due to safety, basically he would bottom out or hit the front wheel with toe overlap and things that would happen would be worse than say "not tightening your seat post" or "putting your large front chain ring on backwards".

So this year or next he will buy a new bike, simply because based on some of the original pics...he has scary stem stack (fork spacers) and that will only get worse....by the time he settles on position that stack or perhaps according leverage on the steerer tube would be REALLY bad. IE dangerous, IE I wouldn't ride it.

So...back to the thread(s)....in most reasonable threads people who don't know come on here, get reasonable advise from say 10-20 people and some odd stuff from 1-2 (IE tire choice etc) most "reasonable" people look at the arguments, perhaps science behind that and make "reasonable and appropriate decisions based on said input.

To be fair Dave is wired very differently...IE I don't think he's a Troll, I honestly believe that he believes his version of reality to be true. He is not targeting one person (IE AC trolls) or selling shit. Basically he thinks he is right. But for some to think or validate that they are right they have this innate desire for everyone else to disagree with them.

So Dave is faced with a CR of 175 or under, because of what comes stock with new bikes. I predict this year or next Dave will be riding a very large (New) disc brake bike (Andean) with CR of 165-175 (simply because Dave is too cheap to buy after market) reasonable seat height and angle and fork spacers which don't scare the shit out of me.

Anyways, IMO the threads have been interesting and of good value...some of your links have made be go back and re-read the research (and then get stuck in the rabbit hole of google and other papers) some of Dave Luscan and Trents posts on the "holistic" nature of fit have, and should be looked at. I think most of ST is seeing or perhaps learning a bit from these.

Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.

Anyways just my 2c

Maurice


My change has zero to do with safety!! I buy what I need, which is why I purchased 3 sets of 200 cranks at 450 each. I also bought in installed square bottom brackets in my 2 P2 cervelo's.

Who knows what crank length, which directly impacts fits, and my RPM focus will end up being. But I am having fun gather data to see. If the end results is what the "experts" say, great. But so far I am not seeing data that supports the experts opinions.

IMO, your post hits on what I see as the issue in our society now, which is so many believe their opinion is the ONLY right opinion, even with no facts and data to support. Then when someone has the guts to challenge them, they just go nuts and attack, which is why I call them snowflakes. So many just cannot debate. If bike fit and crank length only had one answer, then all these folks asking about it would have no reason to.

Oh well, life is fun


Dave,

First and foremost my hope is that you understand fit has 100% to do with safety, for both you and others.

Second, I honestly hope that I am not the poster boy for “what’s wrong with society” our shit is paid for including our house, and basically we are free to pursue “life, liberty and security of person” as we see fit and legal under the law.

Third, as I previously mentioned you are primarily testing cranks from 175 down, why? Why not 180, 177.5,182.5., 190 etc.

Basically, you are free to do what you want, but please understand that within your comments regarding fit, very obviously safety is the 100% concern, for yourself...but equally important for others.

So, in a technical fashion as I stated . you are stuck with a dangerous situation for you and others if you fit on an old P2, if you go with 175’s or lower....your choice.

Cheers,

I have tested on the longer cranks, and quickly found out I could not get a bike fit to work, etc. So, why would I play with them again? I have ridden enough for years knowing how they feel, and what my bike times were.

I just do not see how going below 175 is dangerous? Are you saying everyone under 175 is not safe?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Oh the irony.
I returned to ST seeking a refuge from the news these days. Everything in the news and on my social media is so contentious with meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
So I return to ST and see a thread on crank length, a topic on which I have an interest and might have something to contribute. And what did I find in that thread? Meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
I guess the only refuge is to be off line.
Sigh,
Jim


Here's the deal,

In spite of 6-10 threads and a combined post count of at least a thousand, this isn't about crank arm length..AT ALL, it's about safety...and Dave's possible desire to buy a new bike.

IIRC it was back in the Diamond back thread before all this started I told dave that due to lower BB drop and shorter FC he will have to go away from 200's due to safety, basically he would bottom out or hit the front wheel with toe overlap and things that would happen would be worse than say "not tightening your seat post" or "putting your large front chain ring on backwards".

So this year or next he will buy a new bike, simply because based on some of the original pics...he has scary stem stack (fork spacers) and that will only get worse....by the time he settles on position that stack or perhaps according leverage on the steerer tube would be REALLY bad. IE dangerous, IE I wouldn't ride it.

So...back to the thread(s)....in most reasonable threads people who don't know come on here, get reasonable advise from say 10-20 people and some odd stuff from 1-2 (IE tire choice etc) most "reasonable" people look at the arguments, perhaps science behind that and make "reasonable and appropriate decisions based on said input.

To be fair Dave is wired very differently...IE I don't think he's a Troll, I honestly believe that he believes his version of reality to be true. He is not targeting one person (IE AC trolls) or selling shit. Basically he thinks he is right. But for some to think or validate that they are right they have this innate desire for everyone else to disagree with them.

So Dave is faced with a CR of 175 or under, because of what comes stock with new bikes. I predict this year or next Dave will be riding a very large (New) disc brake bike (Andean) with CR of 165-175 (simply because Dave is too cheap to buy after market) reasonable seat height and angle and fork spacers which don't scare the shit out of me.

Anyways, IMO the threads have been interesting and of good value...some of your links have made be go back and re-read the research (and then get stuck in the rabbit hole of google and other papers) some of Dave Luscan and Trents posts on the "holistic" nature of fit have, and should be looked at. I think most of ST is seeing or perhaps learning a bit from these.

Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.

Anyways just my 2c

Maurice


My change has zero to do with safety!! I buy what I need, which is why I purchased 3 sets of 200 cranks at 450 each. I also bought in installed square bottom brackets in my 2 P2 cervelo's.

Who knows what crank length, which directly impacts fits, and my RPM focus will end up being. But I am having fun gather data to see. If the end results is what the "experts" say, great. But so far I am not seeing data that supports the experts opinions.



IMO, your post hits on what I see as the issue in our society now, which is so many believe their opinion is the ONLY right opinion, even with no facts and data to support. Then when someone has the guts to challenge them, they just go nuts and attack, which is why I call them snowflakes. So many just cannot debate. If bike fit and crank length only had one answer, then all these folks asking about it would have no reason to.

Oh well, life is fun


Dave,

First and foremost my hope is that you understand fit has 100% to do with safety, for both you and others.

Second, I honestly hope that I am not the poster boy for “what’s wrong with society” our shit is paid for including our house, and basically we are free to pursue “life, liberty and security of person” as we see fit and legal under the law.

Third, as I previously mentioned you are primarily testing cranks from 175 down, why? Why not 180, 177.5,182.5., 190 etc.

Basically, you are free to do what you want, but please understand that within your comments regarding fit, very obviously safety is the 100% concern, for yourself...but equally important for others.

So, in a technical fashion as I stated . you are stuck with a dangerous situation for you and others if you fit on an old P2, if you go with 175’s or lower....your choice.

Cheers,

I have tested on the longer cranks, and quickly found out I could not get a bike fit to work, etc. So, why would I play with them again? I have ridden enough for years knowing how they feel, and what my bike times were.

I just do not see how going below 175 is dangerous? Are you saying everyone under 175 is not safe?

Why not pursue 220 or 240? Then you could get clarity on CA length?

In térms of 175 vs stack and reach and how it affects you and others safety (of others) please feel free to actually read my posts above.

Cheers,
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Mark Lemmon] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Thanks Mark. It works!

Damon Rinard
Engineering Manager,
CSG Road Engineering Department
Cannondale & GT Bicycles
(ex-Cervelo, ex-Trek, ex-Velomax, ex-Kestrel)
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [mauricemaher] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
mauricemaher wrote:
Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.

i see no value in contributing to a thread where minds are already made up.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.


i see no value in contributing to a thread where minds are already made up.

yep, but still wish you would offer your 2 cents. This is not about being "right" or "wrong". It is just debating, which as I have stated, seems to be a lost art.
Everyone just wants to get their way and personal. This is just hobby stuff.

Oh well, I bet in the future we will find that social media was one of the worst things that came out of the internet.

You still going to do a bike fit on me in Rocklin? :)

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
A few years ago, I was literally at my wits end with Dave, until a very wise mentor pointed out to me that I was essentially arguing with a mentally ill individual. Not in a mean, name calling type of way. Just the calm rational truth. He needs help, and this forum is simply acting as a proxy for the professional help he needs. One I internalized that idea, I no longer felt the need to engage him. I was left with only empathy. (And the block user feature helps too).
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
Slowman wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.


i see no value in contributing to a thread where minds are already made up.

yep, but still wish you would offer your 2 cents. This is not about being "right" or "wrong". It is just debating, which as I have stated, seems to be a lost art.
Everyone just wants to get their way and personal. This is just hobby stuff.

Oh well, I bet in the future we will find that social media was one of the worst things that came out of the internet.

You still going to do a bike fit on me in Rocklin? :)

It would be my pleasure to fit you in rocklin this year. Between now and then, I encourage you to experiment. I also encourage you to do that with full acknowledgement of the primacy on this issue of Damon Rinard and bio McGeek. Read my front page thingy on orthodoxy and know that thee 2 guys are the keepers of orthodox fact here.

Dan Empfield
aka Slowman
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
You could also look at it as, even after all those pages and posts of vitriol, a great number of people are attempting to honestly help a person who is actively insulting them and their help. That makes it heartwarming.

The point is, ladies and gentleman, that speed, for lack of a better word, is good. Speed is right, Speed works. Speed clarifies, cuts through, and captures the essence of the evolutionary spirit.
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Slowman] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Slowman wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Slowman wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.


i see no value in contributing to a thread where minds are already made up.

yep, but still wish you would offer your 2 cents. This is not about being "right" or "wrong". It is just debating, which as I have stated, seems to be a lost art.
Everyone just wants to get their way and personal. This is just hobby stuff.

Oh well, I bet in the future we will find that social media was one of the worst things that came out of the internet.

You still going to do a bike fit on me in Rocklin? :)

It would be my pleasure to fit you in rocklin this year. Between now and then, I encourage you to experiment. I also encourage you to do that with full acknowledgement of the primacy on this issue of Damon Rinard and bio McGeek. Read my front page thingy on orthodoxy and know that thee 2 guy
s are the keepers of orthodox fact here.

Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo. Drove folks nuts in life that were orthidox belivers. Great things came from folks who were willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. I respect folks who can debate give facts and leave the personal egos at the door. When frank is done with me you will then get the chance to see if his result you think is nuts and non orthodox. Then i will race and see what happens. What if my bike times get better?

Dave Campbell | Facebook | @DaveECampbell | h2ofun@h2ofun.net

Boom Nutrition code 19F4Y3 $5 off 24 pack box | Bionic Runner | PowerCranks | Velotron | Spruzzamist

Lions don't lose sleep worrying about the sheep
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Toby] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Toby wrote:
You could also look at it as, even after all those pages and posts of vitriol, a great number of people are attempting to honestly help a person who is actively insulting them and their help. That makes it heartwarming.


I've asked this before and no one answered...for those that have met him in real life, is this guy as big a douche in person as he is on line?.....
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo. Drove folks nuts in life that were orthidox belivers. Great things came from folks who were willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. I respect folks who can debate give facts and leave the personal egos at the door. When frank is done with me you will then get the chance to see if his result you think is nuts and non orthodox. Then i will race and see what happens. What if my bike times get better?

Purely out of curiosity, what kind of engineer are you?
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Blee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Also second question, if your bike times do improve next season, how do you allocate credit for that? Definitely please correct me if I'm wrong, but this is the first time you've really taken effort to optimize your bike training, and you also mentioned you finally got a real fitting or are getting one? So how do you allocate credit to Frank vs. those factors?
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Steve-oH!] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Steve-oH! wrote:
Toby wrote:
You could also look at it as, even after all those pages and posts of vitriol, a great number of people are attempting to honestly help a person who is actively insulting them and their help. That makes it heartwarming.



I've asked this before and no one answered...for those that have met him in real life, is this guy as big a douche in person as he is on line?.....


You might be surprised how comparably similar he is to Triathletes of similar age and providence you get to meet at races....or during training.

I'd say he is in the 10-20% range among his peers.
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Blee] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Blee wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo. Drove folks nuts in life that were orthidox belivers. Great things came from folks who were willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. I respect folks who can debate give facts and leave the personal egos at the door. When frank is done with me you will then get the chance to see if his result you think is nuts and non orthodox. Then i will race and see what happens. What if my bike times get better?


Purely out of curiosity, what kind of engineer are you?

Also curious about this. Have seen it tossed around enough to raise an eyebrow.
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
Bio_McGeek wrote:
Oh the irony.
I returned to ST seeking a refuge from the news these days. Everything in the news and on my social media is so contentious with meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
So I return to ST and see a thread on crank length, a topic on which I have an interest and might have something to contribute. And what did I find in that thread? Meanness, stupidity, science denial, fake news, and righteous indignation.
I guess the only refuge is to be off line.
Sigh,
Jim

But invariably the "meanness" and "stupidity" is nothing more than trolling and we learned to ignore that kind of behaviour back in primary school. It sucks that we still have to tolerate it, you'd think a triathlon forum would be devoid of those kind of moronic posts... I think overall ST is pretty good, you act like a tool you're going to get some flak. Personally it's just like water of a ducks back to me, I'll read 2, 3 words of a post and it it's obviously intended to win people up, I'll skip the entire post and move on. Waste of time and energy.
Quote Reply
Re: ST as a mirror for society [h2ofun] [ In reply to ]
Quote | Reply
h2ofun wrote:
Slowman wrote:
h2ofun wrote:
Slowman wrote:
mauricemaher wrote:
Given Slowmans passion for correct fit and value for what you get from a fitter I find his absence interesting.


i see no value in contributing to a thread where minds are already made up.


yep, but still wish you would offer your 2 cents. This is not about being "right" or "wrong". It is just debating, which as I have stated, seems to be a lost art.
Everyone just wants to get their way and personal. This is just hobby stuff.

Oh well, I bet in the future we will find that social media was one of the worst things that came out of the internet.

You still going to do a bike fit on me in Rocklin? :)


It would be my pleasure to fit you in rocklin this year. Between now and then, I encourage you to experiment. I also encourage you to do that with full acknowledgement of the primacy on this issue of Damon Rinard and bio McGeek. Read my front page thingy on orthodoxy and know that thee 2 guy
s are the keepers of orthodox fact here.


Sorry i have never believed in the orthodoxy attitude. Guess this is why my teams where called the campbell rebels. My experience is a good engineer is always asking why. Challenging the status quo. Drove folks nuts in life that were orthidox belivers. Great things came from folks who were willing to challenge the status quo and think outside the box. I respect folks who can debate give facts and leave the personal egos at the door. When frank is done with me you will then get the chance to see if his result you think is nuts and non orthodox. Then i will race and see what happens. What if my bike times get better?
I'm an engineer too. I too love to look beyond the accepted solutions for something better. But if it's not better, I like to think I'm capable of recognising and accepting that. You cling to the notion that you're different and that you can find a better way with such ferocity that you can't recognise when you're fooling yourself.

There is nothing wrong with looking for something different and better. It's an extremely valuable approach. However, it's absolutely essential that you are as critical of your own ideas as you are of others. The burden of evidence is greater on you when you are claiming to know better than everyone else. I do not consider your general approach, as I've observed it on ST, to satisfy due rigor or even basic logic. Your arguments are more storyline than critical analysis. Typically, when you run out of logical answers to criticism you turn to insulting your critics and bragging about your performances. These are not the traits I would expect of a good engineer.

And no, I don't expect a satisfying response to this post!
Quote Reply

Prev Next