Nice But.....

It will not perform close to XTR 9050.Just like the road e tap it is not programable and shifts a little slow especially for mtb.
The derailleur does not have the position advantage of the XTR Shadow, and the battery is vulnerable.

Not to worry Nino will crush with it.

I *think* eTap shifts slowly because there is a small delay in the system "waiting" for a 2nd shift to activate the front derailleur. So maybe if it's a dedicated 1x system they can reduce the lag?

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Alex Arman

Strava

That’s a really good point. eTap actuation seems just as quick as Di2 to me once it decides to actually move. I think your theory is probably spot on.

Yeah, I want a ~$700 derailleur hanging in a vulnerable spot on a mountain bike I plan to bash through rock gardens.

When this finally reaches road/TT...Would this require a new RD? New shifters? Or could we get away with just a cassette swap to upgrade?

When Shimano went from 10 to 11 spd electronic they went out of their way to prevent cross compatibility in order to force people to buy a whole new group set. It was certainly technologically possible for Shimano to send out a firmware update which would have reprogramed the shifters to shift handle 11 spd but they went the other way.

I fully expect SRAM will go the same way.

Well, when Shimano went from di2 10spd (7970) to 11spd (9070/6870) they updated all the wiring to eTube which was a great improvement regarding cable size and user updating. It was a big step forward.


What I will say with the new eTap, and hopefully I don't get in trouble..... but I saw the 1x11 clutch derailleur at a cross race this past season. The rider had stock eTap HRD shifters to control it. Those looked to be the current model as the graphics were the same, but the clutch derailleur was unbranded and not fully refined. So I assume we are good on the 11spd side of things.

Now, a 12spd road setup, with a 12spd road cassette and 12spd shifters.... that is very much unknown.

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Alex Arman

Strava

Shimano 10 Di2 speed brifters (Ultegra 6770) have always worked fine with any Shimano Di2 e-tube 11 speed components. It is the Di2 derailleurs which determine compatibility not the shifters. The only option programmed out by firmware was the ability to use a 10 speed FD with a 11 speed RD. Shimano did say they did this inadvertently while trying to optimize derailleur trimming, but never reversed the change.

The only Di2 complete forced upgrade from 10 to 11 was with the first gen DA Di2 (7970) series which was never upgraded.

I would count on every cassette starting with a 10 tooth cog, not an 11.




Yeah, I have a friend who's had the retaining tabs on two different eTap batteries break on her Diamond tri bike just in the course of normal riding. Unless there's an upgrade to the attachment method, I'd have very little confidence in the battery durability under the rougher typical use a mountain bike sees.



Don't get ahead of yourself. There's not yet a 12 speed road mechanical, nor an 11 speed 1x road eTap. I'd be surprised if they went right past both of those to a 1x12 eTap road.
When it does come, there's no way the derailleur will be cross-compatible. At a bare minimum, you're looking at a derailleur, cassette, freehub (XD-R), and chain. Whether or not SRAM forces an upgrade to the brifters/blip-box is mostly a matter of whether they want to be dickheads or not....unless there's some compelling reason to change the way the the shifters and derailleurs communicate.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

Also,

What's the point of e-shifting on a 1x mountain bike? I see the value on a 2x mountain bike (automatic FD trimming, full- or partial- synchroshift). I see the value on a TT bike, where you have two different hand positions. Maybe even a road bike if you want supplemental "climbing" or "sprint" buttons. But a mountain bike, where you have exactly one hand position? The only possible reason I can imagine is it the ability to drop more gears in a single press than you can with a mechanical shifter. Is that worth the complexity and expense? I don't know, I don't really mountain bike. Someone please enlighten me.

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"They're made of latex, not nitroglycerin"

I think 1x mtb is where something like rotor's uno hydraulic shifting would be awesome, way more applicable than electronic

I think the only point would be to make swapping the group amongst different frames relatively painless. At least that's the appeal to me.

I've got SRAM 1x12 Eagle on my mtb and personally can't think of a reason to go electronic. I have Di2 on my road bike and like it for the various shifting position (sprinter shifters, top of hood, etc.) but since there's not much improvement available with a thumb shifter on a mtb, I don't see a benefit. I have yet to experience thumb fatigue from shifting on a long ride, but that's the only area of benefit I could see.

oh man, I have di2 on most of my mtbs (both 2x and 1x) and can't fathom going back to mechanical save for maybe on a bikepacking race (where I know i can fix or get replacement stuff at just about any shop). I do mostly 12hr+ races and it's damn nice not having to deal with cable stretch and the shifting is so damn fast in snow/mud that 1+ yrs in I still marvel at it.

Hope for SRAMs sake that they can speed up the shifting as my experience with it on the road was underwhelming to say the least - but that's often the case with 1st gen products.

Give it a shot and you'll (likely) be impressed.

I'm afraid to try it for that vary reason. :) I already won't own another road bike that doesn't have Di2, and don't want to now have to have it on my mtbs!

Which Eagle group do you have? Regardless, it's too expensive for what it is.



x1000

I'm now Di2 on everything except my fat bike, which is 11 speed X01/XX1 mix, and I'm thinking about making the conversion because it sucks. Di2 was historically expensive but it is now totally affordable offroad -- the trigger shifter is like $60 or something stupid. So it runs about $550 and if you want to be even cheaper you can get some bits used on ebay and probably get to $400.

Rough costs
$230 - XT Di2 RD
$80 - e toobs
$80 - Junction A
$30 - Junction B
$60 - Trigger Shifter
$100 - Battery

I can't imagine why you'd choose another group off road.

I just got SRAM GX eagle stock on my new plus bike and wow is it terrible. The cassette is heavy as all hell and frankly it looks ridiculous. Beyond that it's poorly designed, with the 42 and 50T narrow wide and the other sprockets regular, which creates skipping. Literally, this 10-50T is half a pound more than my XX1 10-42. You also really don't need 12 speeds off road! There is no "gap" maleffect, which is arguably a problem on the road. If you can't roll a 28 or 30 or 32T up front and 10-42 in back on almost anything, you're too slow to be on such an expensive setup. Go buy a Peloton.

Further, and apparently for no reason, SRAM decided to make the ergonomics of the GX eagle trigger shifter limited so it is uncomfortably tight spacing. The B limit is about the fussiest, most annoying piece of kit I've ever dealt with -- you need a special tool to perfectly optimize it, which of course didn't come with the bike -- and I know I am not alone. And then you have to make sure you have 12 speed quick links and chains and replacement parts -- I already lost half my quick link in the waxing and didn't have an extra. All your stuff is incompatible with your 11 speed groups.

XT Di2 shifting is crisp and the adjustments are easy and I can dial up e tube project on my phone and it just works. Set and forget. Sever an e tube somehow? No problem -- you have extra bits in your collection from your other Di2 bikes, and you can rob one in the clutch. Chargers are all compatible. I don't know...I just don't understand the attraction of Eagle or SRAM eTap in general now, especially for TT bikes. The GX is the only group that rivals XT Di2 in terms of price, and for all the aforementioned reasons, it's nonsensical.

Needless to say, I tore that group right off the bike and rigged up XT Di2. Anyone want my GX group for $370? Shoot me a PM. Total shit.

Hardly a fair compariso, Di2 to GX. Price wise they may be similar, but only because you can get shimano close to wholesale online. I don't know what the mountains are like where you live, but racing courses with a mixture of flat or downhill fire road and technical climbs, the wider range from a 12 speed 10-50 out back is a huge advantage.

The only thing x01 or xx1 eagle give up to electronic is the ability to hold a shift button down and sweep through the gears. I wouldn't mind that at the end of a long day one bit, but I wouldn't trade it for the weak clutch in a shimano mech or the di2 battery hassle.

As a consumer, help me understand why this matters...

Honestly, what you have up there doesn't even make any sense. You've left out of the cost of a cassette, which is big money if you're going to use the only real 11 speed option (Hint, its not made by shimano).

Anyone happy with the range of an 11 speed mtb group should be buying 11 speed sram x01 or xx1 for prices right in line with the di2 numbers you have above. Comparing pricing on 11 speed shimano electronic to 12 speed sram is laughable.

Haha!

I think it's more of a race type RD, not a "go trash my bike" type RD.

I'm a big fan of di2 on my road bikes, but I've got no use for 1x on the road unless I'm doing road training on my MTB. 12 speed I guess is better than 11 even with 2x, but I wouldn't be quick to jump.

I love the 1x 12 speed Eagle on my XC MTB and might do electronic once it get's cheap, but no big rush. As for the 11sp vs. 12 argument on MTB, there are aftermarket 11sp cassettes that give you similar range to 12 speed, but they are just as pricey as Eagle GX and Eagle is outstanding. I've heard people mention the narrow wide chain skips with Eagle, but it's just a non-issue if you have everything adjusted right. I'm not saying I've never had a skip, but it's rare and it's not a big deal to have a quick one-link skip (not much different then the engagement slop in some freehubs). I run 11speed SRAM on my trail bike because that's what it came with and I don't need "speed" gearing for trail riding, but I'd buy eagle GX if I ever need to replace it.

If you have a grip shift you are giving nothing but cool factor.

Right?? Why would you buy this if you think you're going to destroy it, or don't have the ability to replace it. You can go with Eagle GX which is way cheaper, and with good training, the weight penalty is negated ;)

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Carson Christen
Sport Scientist , Coach
Torden Multisport