Intense one now, relaxed later. You'll be getting a nice intensity stimulus at 70.3 anyways.

Great point. Thanks

The long run is the single most overrated piece of marathon training. Consistently weekly mileage trumps it. Long blocks at goal marathon pace trump it. It's a good thing to do but not the thing you should center your training around.

What has your weekly mileage been? How many times have you practiced your goal marathon pace for long blocks of mileage?

I couldn't disagree more. I guess everyone is different, but for me, the long run is vital. Doing a 10-15 mile run is easy. But if you've done a marathon, you know how much pounding your legs take, and even if you're going at a manageable pace where your heart rate isn't sky high, things get difficult at mile 10. Even more difficult at 15. And so on, from the tires legs factor. Doing 20 milers, where you get to experience some of the 'marathon legs' feeling, and still be able to run through it, is super important. Mental toughness is huge in a marathon, and the confidence gained by doing these long runs is huge. At least for me

Training long runs and executing on race day are separate skillsets that need to be developed. You can be the fittest on earth and have nailed your long runs. But race day can only be replicated to a degree. The only other way to replicate that feeling of tired legs, etc is to develop the physical and mental skillset that is racing.

Long runs take more time to recover and can inhibit your training the following days. Double run days can will allow you to recover more quickly and get most of the same benefits as a long run.

Run durability comes down to consistent training day after day, week after week, month after month. You can get in all the long runs if you want, but that consistent daily grind is what builds up the resilience for your body to handle the load well at miles 16-26.2

Sorry to hijack this thread. Curious what the gurus think about long bricks and their crossover benefit for pure running. For example, bike 75 miles then run 10 miles, instead of a 16-20 miler that requires substantial recovery. Or is the brick so tri specific that it's a different kind of running?

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2017 races: St. George 70.3 May 6 | Madison 70.3 June 11 | IM Zurich July 30 | Chicago Marathon October 8

Lots of endless threads on bricks.

Basically a brick is for easier and shorter transition runs. Benefits are you save time, don't have to take an extra shower, spend more time with wife and kids...get in less shit with the family.

Once or twice per year we might do a longer brick of 120km and 21 run in order to test nutrition, validate GI distress. We have a lot of 2nd 3rd and 4thhyear athletes who don't really need todo this anymore.

To the best of your ability try to isolate quality run efforts from other quality efforts.

Maurice,

FWITW.

I did a IM 70.3 2 weeks ago and I am planning to race a marathon next weekend. I am not competing for the prize money or anything but a top 10-15 in my age group would be nice. Basically, I used my 70.3 run leg as my last race pace long run and did a 19 miler last weekend at a very easy pace. IMO there is not a ton of a difference between running a fast half marathon and running a race pace 16 miler as a training run. I also did 2 tempo runs this week at about 8 miles each (plus w/u and w/d). I think that this was the best approach for me in terms of being able to recover before the marathon.

Not knowing your age, I'd do the same - skip the fast 16 miler, do an easy long run next week, taper, race the 70.3 and then hope to recover for the 26.2

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Next races on the schedule: none at the moment

I am not a guru.
But I am a fan of long bricks.
I am not sure about the 75 mile bike + 10 mile run. That seems like it would be very difficult but still wouldn't qualify as a long run.

I do:
1) 30 minute ride + 15 mile run (as long run when training for 70.3)
2) 40 minute ride + 18 mile run (when training for 140.6)

I asked because I did 75+10 yesterday and wanted someone to validate it.


But actually, I thought it was a great workout and a great confidence booster. Maurice, I'm a 3rd year triathlete, but still on the steep end of the learning curve.

30-40 min + 15-18 mile run seems like a great workout too. I typically don't run more than 2 hours in training, which for me maxes out at ~16 miles. We'll see if the coach tosses in longer ones this year.

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2017 races: St. George 70.3 May 6 | Madison 70.3 June 11 | IM Zurich July 30 | Chicago Marathon October 8

I kinda agree with this... When I train for marathons in summer, double run days are my key (in my case, it's called commute ;) ). I do a longish run on the weekend, but I tend not to stack a lot of long runs in my plan.

However, while I do think that this "should" work with everyone, a lot of the people I coach have mental blocks about not doing a few long runs. While I do tend to educate them about the physical damage of the long run, I do have to make concessions with them - if it makes them happy doing long runs (heck, I do love them myself - headphones, trail, I could run for 5h...), then I let them have a few more than they should. For most of us, it is a hobby. While I'm trying to get them in peak shape for their race, if they're not happy at the starting line, it's not worth it.

That being said, for the OP - I believe you do fall in the "experienced" and "wanting to nail a PB" group, so I'd focus on double run days rather than long runs. I'd still do the 16 milers, but I'd reshuffle the 21 milers into more smaller runs.

I didn't say, "Don't do long runs". Of course do some. I said it was the most overrated piece of marathon training. And it really is. When that 20 mile run is a much smaller piece of your total weekly mileage, it doesn't matter nearly so much how many 20 milers you did.