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Run focus or bike focus first
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Am getting ready to start up for Lake Placid but trying to decide on whether to do a relative run focus session for 10 weeks (6 runs/2 bikes) prior to bike focus (TR SSBI-II, sustained build for 6 weeks) for 18 weeks. Bike is my relative strength as I'm currently at 3.74 w/kg. Hoping to get it up to 3.9-4 in those 4.5 months. Run is average. 21' 5k

Is it possible to do 2 separate focus training in the offseason?

Is 10 weeks enough time to get some gains on the run or should I devote more time to run? Last year I did bike for 26 weeks and had huge gains (40+ watts).

If I ran first then focus more on the bike, will I lose the gains that I made on the run?

I think I can keep the gains on the bike (or at least minimize significant loss) if I did the bike first. Is this wishful thinking?

thanks
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Re: Run focus or bike focus first [IMStillTrying] [ In reply to ]
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IMO you should do run for the whole time. Your run is waaay worse than your bike. And I think a lot of running will actually help your HIM & IM power on the bike even though it might hurt your 20 min power in the meantime.
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Re: Run focus or bike focus first [Sean H] [ In reply to ]
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Sean H wrote:
IMO you should do run for the whole time. Your run is waaay worse than your bike. And I think a lot of running will actually help your HIM & IM power on the bike even though it might hurt your 20 min power in the meantime.

Pretty well agree 100% with what Sean said. Another way of doing this is that you can literally park the bike for most of the winter and go on the swim + run block for the entire winter. Like 5-6 swims, 5-9 runs and two bike spins of 20 minutes easy with a few pick ups for muscle memory. You can then transition into more biking in Feb-March, cutting out some swimming and adding three times one hour on the bike, all intensity. Then in April, get outdoors and pour on the biking and cut down the swimming a bit more. If you do a ton of kick sets swimming it will nicely transfer to bike FTP.

Did you notice how well top swimmers do at IM Kona....and did you notice how much better Lionel Sanders did when he actually got serious about swimming. It's not as much about swim time as coming to T1 fresh. So consider that investment now.....and "run for dough"!
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Re: Run focus or bike focus first [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Sean H wrote:
IMO you should do run for the whole time. Your run is waaay worse than your bike. And I think a lot of running will actually help your HIM & IM power on the bike even though it might hurt your 20 min power in the meantime.


Pretty well agree 100% with what Sean said. Another way of doing this is that you can literally park the bike for most of the winter and go on the swim + run block for the entire winter. Like 5-6 swims, 5-9 runs and two bike spins of 20 minutes easy with a few pick ups for muscle memory. You can then transition into more biking in Feb-March, cutting out some swimming and adding three times one hour on the bike, all intensity. Then in April, get outdoors and pour on the biking and cut down the swimming a bit more. If you do a ton of kick sets swimming it will nicely transfer to bike FTP.

Did you notice how well top swimmers do at IM Kona....and did you notice how much better Lionel Sanders did when he actually got serious about swimming. It's not as much about swim time as coming to T1 fresh. So consider that investment now.....and "run for dough"!

But swimming is such a pain to do! I just started my off season without swimming this morning. And it was nice not to have to get into the pool. Going to take 4 to 5 months off from swimming. Just too much of a hassle trying to get to a pool when the one close to me is closed down. Yea, my swimming is getting worse, but what the heck. Duathlon season starts in a few months. :)

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Re: Run focus or bike focus first [devashish_paul] [ In reply to ]
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devashish_paul wrote:
Sean H wrote:
IMO you should do run for the whole time. Your run is waaay worse than your bike. And I think a lot of running will actually help your HIM & IM power on the bike even though it might hurt your 20 min power in the meantime.


Pretty well agree 100% with what Sean said. Another way of doing this is that you can literally park the bike for most of the winter and go on the swim + run block for the entire winter. Like 5-6 swims, 5-9 runs and two bike spins of 20 minutes easy with a few pick ups for muscle memory. You can then transition into more biking in Feb-March, cutting out some swimming and adding three times one hour on the bike, all intensity. Then in April, get outdoors and pour on the biking and cut down the swimming a bit more. If you do a ton of kick sets swimming it will nicely transfer to bike FTP.

Did you notice how well top swimmers do at IM Kona....and did you notice how much better Lionel Sanders did when he actually got serious about swimming. It's not as much about swim time as coming to T1 fresh. So consider that investment now.....and "run for dough"!

Interesting and thanks for the thoughtful feedback. I put my questions in bold: For the rides would 20' EZ x 2 be enough to minimize a significant drop? I worked so hard to get it up there, I'm always fearful of losing it. Don't I need some 85% SS rides to keep my power?

Hypothetically would the following be adequate. Run 6-7 runs per week with 80% low intensity and 20% higher intensity starting at around 4-5 hours per week and building to ~8-9 hours per week with goal 10% volume increase per week
Breakdown of work from Nov-Feb:
Low intensity: Let's say 9:00/mi (after taking account warmup/cd) which should give me 6.4-7.2 hours at this pace or ~40-45 miles of work
Higher intensity: 1.6-1.8 hours or ~ 6-10 miles of work.
Bike 2 x 20'.
Swim. Can only do 1:25-1.5 hr x 3 at masters (maybe add a 4th) as it is a little inconvenient (swam 54' at Chattanooga so I figure about a 1:02-1:05 swimmer). I've been swimming year round for past 2 years so I finally understand your comment re: feeling fresh off swim.

In Feb /March
Bike: Low vol Trainer Road Sweet spot work (3-4 rides per week)
Run:: What should I decrease weekly duration to? 4-5 hours, 5-6 hour? I'll add bricks so I will still be running 5-7x/week just shorter duration runs.

IM build from April to July 22.

Thanks again.
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Re: Run focus or bike focus first [IMStillTrying] [ In reply to ]
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I have never taken completely off the bike like Dev recommends so I cannot comment on that strategy.

Last fall/winter I got my run volume up to 50 mpw from October to December. I only biked 1-2x per week, but those were mostly 1 hr bike workouts in trainerroad, not easy 20'. I also only swam 1-2x per week during this time as well. Basically everything was about the run. If I was feeling really run down I would skip the bike that day if necessary.

I would say maybe to the trainerroad low volume sweet spot base plan and skip the weekend ride, just do the 2 weekday rides.

For me, once I had built my run up to 50 mpw and was handling it well, I started upping my bike and swims back in. I did not decrease the run, it was too easy to keep it high to not (you're talking about and extra 15-20 min on every run to keep it at 50 mpw vs 30 mpw).

But this winter I'm building up to 60-70 mpw, then will cut it back to 50 mpw once I start ramping bike volume back up.

Obviously you just have to figure out what works with your schedule. You can look through my strava history to see my weeks during the run block last fall winter, then carrying that into full tri training (Oct 17 2016 - Dec 11 2016 to build to 50 mpw, Dec 11 - Apr 1 for HIM build)
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Re: Run focus or bike focus first [IMStillTrying] [ In reply to ]
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I might do a run focus first like Dev suggests 1-2 bikes per week for 30-45 min, then a short bike focus then back to a run focus then into normal tri training.

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Re: Run focus or bike focus first [desert dude] [ In reply to ]
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so how about this. . .BTW I'm 45 yo so it's getting harder :(

Nov-Feb: run focus build up to 8-10 hours, 1-2 rides low intensity with spin
Feb-March: Sweet spot riding (3-4x/wee), run at 60-80% duration as long as it doesn't affect biking. I'm not sure I can trust my body enough to handle the load of running 100% duration plus adding the biking load.
April: back to run focus with 2 rides per week, Is this Easy intensity or SS riding? Run builds on Feb-March back to 100% ( 8-10 hours)
Swimming consistently the entire time.
May-July: IM build

Thanks. Now I have to hope my body stays healthy as I've never been much of a runner (as evidenced by my pedestrian 5k)
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