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Re: Rolling resistance article [Ashburn] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for the info you've posted on this subject previously. Have your tests compared latex v. butyl tubes? Is there much difference?

Thanks. HH

PS: I've pretty much decided to get rid of my tubular race wheels and get clinchers.


No, I did everything with normal thick butyl training tubes in the clinchers. Don't know much about latex tubes. Only what I've read.


Thanks for the reply. I appreciate your numerous posts on slowtwitch and elsewhere on this subject. I'm sold (on clinchers).

HH

________
It doesn't really matter what Phil is saying, the music of his voice is the appropriate soundtrack for a bicycle race. HTupolev
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Re: Rolling resistance article [AndrewinNH] [ In reply to ]
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yes more on the new clincher disk :) How many watts am I likely to save versus say a Renn at 45 kph or 350W? I volunteer for beta field testing if you need some help :)
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Re: Rolling resistance article [AndrewinNH] [ In reply to ]
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I don't know about drag, but in the limited case of 404s, the #s break down like this:

Total Weight Tubular w/ 2 spares: 2317 grams

Total Weight Clincher w/ 2 spares: 2391 g

That's a 71 g or .16 pound difference. That's assuming M Pro 2s w/ latex tubes and Velo Carbon tubulars (in the test they had the lowest RR)

Switch to regular weight conti butyl tubes and the difference stretches to 277 grams or .61 pounds.

Add a third spare and clinchers flop to the lower weight set-up; drop to 1 spare and you have the 277 gram difference again (tubular advantage).

Now if you switched the clincher to the Pariba Revolution which, according to this test, has a RR close to the Velo Carbons, the gap with 2 spares tightens to 47 grams, or .1 lb.

So at ~ the same RR, in this very limited sample, the tubulars are lighter by the weight of a pair of carbon cages. According to Josh, it seems that the aero on the 2 is ~ the same for the wheels, so... How much drag is added by strapping 2 tubulars to your frame? Enough to negate the miniscule weight advantage? I don't know.
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Re: Rolling resistance article [one_lap] [ In reply to ]
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It's fun to run the numbers.

Now back to the important things

1) Loss some fat by Race day

2) Ride, weights and ride to improve engine

3) Decide if white bar tape is faster then black

4) Buy carbon stuff

5) Buy cool looking tri clothes, after fat loss

repeat 1 & 2
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Re: Rolling resistance article [cbritri] [ In reply to ]
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Tubie: Pro: lighter wheels

Con: Glue, harder to carry a spare, I can change a clincher faster, should change out brake pads on hilly courses.

Clinchers: Pro: eaiser to deal with - carrying a spare and changing

Con: Heavier


Tublular Con: Being used as a highlight clip on what can go wrong, Seeing Norman Stadler at Kona: Priceless

I read about how fast people can change a tubular, but I seem to hear alot more "nightmare stories" about changing tubulars. Very few about clinchers.

Somewhere I read in this thread about how "You can ride longer on a flat tubular vs clincher" That's great if you are near the end of the ride"
Last edited by: AndrewinNH: Jan 27, 06 9:38
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Re: Rolling resistance article [AndrewinNH] [ In reply to ]
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Somewhere I read in this thread about how "You can ride longer on a flat tubular vs clincher" That's great if you are near the end of the ride"
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that applies more to road races where you have a wheel car in the back of the pack. you can ride it longer while communicating you need a spare.


Josef
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blog
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Re: Rolling resistance article [JoB] [ In reply to ]
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[quote]that applies more to road races where you have a wheel car in the back of the pack. you can ride it longer while communicating you need a spare.
[/quote]

Prove it!...:-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Rolling resistance article [joshatzipp] [ In reply to ]
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I think that the difference in displacements is that the smooth drum test is essentially modelling a steady state contact patch at only one tire deflection, a deflection which is relatively small. On rough roads, the contact patch is constantly changing shape due to road surface so the tire is deflecting in various ways which range from less than to more than that seen on the drum.



However, the mechanism that gives tubulars higher RR on a smooth drum (hysteresis) is present both when the deflection is steady state vs. varying. Are you surmising that the somehow there is a difference in the hysteresis performance during changes in deformation amplitude?....and that it favors the tubular construction despite it having a structure with higher inherent losses (i.e. glue)?

I guess I'm trying to figure out how tubulars could have more RR at any given deflection amplitude at steady-state (just differences in wheel load or air pressure would cause this) yet they would somehow "magically" have less losses during the transitions between varying maximum amplitudes.


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On mildly rolling terrain, we really couldn't see any difference between the two taken as an average over time, but maybe the better RR of the clincher wheels was offsetting the weight penalty :-)

Exactly! Of course, data taken from a race isn't exactly "controlled", now is it?

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
Last edited by: Tom A.: Jan 27, 06 20:05
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Re: Rolling resistance article [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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anecdotal data and personal communication. to be published. ;-)

[clincher rider here]


Josef
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blog
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Re: Rolling resistance article [JoB] [ In reply to ]
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[quote]anecdotal data and personal communication. to be published. ;-) [/quote]

I've been told many times that "the plural of anecdote is NOT data" :-)

http://bikeblather.blogspot.com/
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Re: Rolling resistance article [Tom A.] [ In reply to ]
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LOL ... I got one for you right here: "it's not research until it's been published. Until then, it's just screwing around."


Josef
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blog
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