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Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires
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Is there a Crr benefit of using new (vs used) tires?

My current setup is Conti GP4000s II that I use both in training and racing. Giving up free speed?

Thanks
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [ejd_mil] [ In reply to ]
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Generally, worn tires roll faster, but probably not so much as to mitigate the increased risk of flatting. There are faster options, but GP4000s broken in for 50 miles are still a top shelf selection. Especially when you consider the aero benefit they provide on many race wheels.... but of course then you have to consider that that aero benefit will diminish pretty quickly as the tires are worn in and lose their original hump shape.
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [FindinFreestyle] [ In reply to ]
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FindinFreestyle wrote:
aero benefit will diminish pretty quickly as the tires are worn in and lose their original hump shape.
This seems plausible but I have never seen it evaluated. Do you know of wind tunnel data on this? Probably would only apply to the front tire since the rear leading edge would be shielded except on beam bikes. Fronts seem to me to wear in a way that preserves their shape whereas rears of course get a flat area.
Anyway, its a really interesting thought and I'll love see data.
Cheers,
Jim
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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This was a Tom A. hypothesis IIRC. I'll dig around on his site one of these days. It was fairly well established with data, again IIRC.
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Bio_McGeek wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
aero benefit will diminish pretty quickly as the tires are worn in and lose their original hump shape.

This seems plausible but I have never seen it evaluated. Do you know of wind tunnel data on this? Probably would only apply to the front tire since the rear leading edge would be shielded except on beam bikes. Fronts seem to me to wear in a way that preserves their shape whereas rears of course get a flat area.
Anyway, its a really interesting thought and I'll love see data.
Cheers,
Jim


Some good data here: https://silca.cc/...ure-and-aerodynamics


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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [bugno] [ In reply to ]
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Perfect, thank you.
Still seems odd to me. That is a rear tire wear pattern. The leading edge will generally be shrouded. Would love to see a worn front tire. I suppose it might influence the wake on the trailing the rear tire's trailing edge.
Cheers,
Jim

bugno wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
aero benefit will diminish pretty quickly as the tires are worn in and lose their original hump shape.

This seems plausible but I have never seen it evaluated. Do you know of wind tunnel data on this? Probably would only apply to the front tire since the rear leading edge would be shielded except on beam bikes. Fronts seem to me to wear in a way that preserves their shape whereas rears of course get a flat area.
Anyway, its a really interesting thought and I'll love see data.
Cheers,
Jim


Some good data here: https://silca.cc/...ure-and-aerodynamics
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [bugno] [ In reply to ]
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So is a case of new tires are better aerodynamically, but broken in tires have less rolling resistance? Is there a comparison of these points? Is it met neutral?
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [Mike Alexander] [ In reply to ]
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Mike Alexander wrote:
So is a case of new tires are better aerodynamically, but broken in tires have less rolling resistance? Is there a comparison of these points? Is it met neutral?

From data collected by Al Morisson on rollers:

When combining rolling resistance and drag, I leave you decide if it is neutral or not, according yaw.

Blog | Twitter| Bike CdaCrr app
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [Bio_McGeek] [ In reply to ]
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Bio_McGeek wrote:
Perfect, thank you.
Still seems odd to me. That is a rear tire wear pattern. The leading edge will generally be shrouded. Would love to see a worn front tire. I suppose it might influence the wake on the trailing the rear tire's trailing edge.
Cheers,
Jim

bugno wrote:
Bio_McGeek wrote:
FindinFreestyle wrote:
aero benefit will diminish pretty quickly as the tires are worn in and lose their original hump shape.

This seems plausible but I have never seen it evaluated. Do you know of wind tunnel data on this? Probably would only apply to the front tire since the rear leading edge would be shielded except on beam bikes. Fronts seem to me to wear in a way that preserves their shape whereas rears of course get a flat area.
Anyway, its a really interesting thought and I'll love see data.
Cheers,
Jim


Some good data here: https://silca.cc/...ure-and-aerodynamics

The one tire I've seen that seems to visually show front tire wear is the GP4000S with higher miles. I've always assumed it is the extra tread depth and elongated tire shape. Plus they do tend to allow for higher miles. The other factor that Josh Porter and TG have brought up previously is that the used tires tend to expand in size over time. This may contribute quite a bit to the front tire aero reduction. In addition to the Al Morrison data posted above, a good example is the Conti Supersonic testing in TomA's Crr spreadsheet. Crr on a well worn SS (600-1000 miles), yielded a watt or two over a newer SS. While tire width difference was 22.8 new to 23.6 used. This is testing on the newer versions of the old SS.

For OP, one approach is to rotate your front GP4k to the rear and run a new front tire. This can yield more mileage out of each tire.
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Re: Rolling resistance (Crr); new vs used tires [SummitAK] [ In reply to ]
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Thanks for sharing, great info.

SummitAK wrote:
The one tire I've seen that seems to visually show front tire wear is the GP4000S with higher miles. I've always assumed it is the extra tread depth and elongated tire shape. Plus they do tend to allow for higher miles. The other factor that Josh Porter and TG have brought up previously is that the used tires tend to expand in size over time. This may contribute quite a bit to the front tire aero reduction. In addition to the Al Morrison data posted above, a good example is the Conti Supersonic testing in TomA's Crr spreadsheet. Crr on a well worn SS (600-1000 miles), yielded a watt or two over a newer SS. While tire width difference was 22.8 new to 23.6 used. This is testing on the newer versions of the old SS.

For OP, one approach is to rotate your front GP4k to the rear and run a new front tire. This can yield more mileage out of each tire.
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