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Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing
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This video made by SickBiker shows why 1X drivetrains are not good for racing and mostly a marketing gimmick. I think it touches on the key fundamental points about why 1X is for fools if you race, such as much higher friction in the chain, insufficient gearing range, and the 1X chain will pop off the front chain ring despite what the marketing tells you that it won't. I totally agree with everything in this video and why I ride 2X and 3X.

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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Hmm.....

I'm not a mountain guy, so can't really counter those claims as they relate to mountain.

But for TT/Tri the chainline arguments, for racing, approach irrelevance. You're down in the bottom half of the cassette for the vast majority of the vast majority of TTs and triathlons. I don't think for any of my TTs this year I went above the 15.

Same with gearing range. For TT/Tri, you don't need anywhere near the range of a trail or XC mountain bike. There are a handful of climbs, like the the monster at St. Croix where you need serious range. Back pedaling is very rare in Tri/TT. Maybe half-rotation back-pedals for descents?

Dirt popping the chain off a narrow-wide seems fairly irrelevant in TT/Tri. (That said, I have popped chains off my XSync ring on my TT bike (without a clutch RD). But since I got a clutch RD, I've had no drops.)

And I won't be getting 1x on my road bikes, despite the 3T Strada spiel. Because on those I do like range, and I sometimes spend a lot of time in the upper half of the cassette.

But I think they make a lot of sense in TT/Tri.
Last edited by: trail: Jul 7, 17 21:03
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [trail] [ In reply to ]
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But you missed the most important point in the video relevant to TT/Tri, the higher chain friction caused by the clutch type derailleurs used by 1X setups due to the need for higher tension imparted by the derailleur. You lose power going with a 1X setup compared to 2X. It makes no sense to use 1X.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Hybridlete wrote:
This video made by SickBiker shows why 1X drivetrains are not good for racing and mostly a marketing gimmick. I think it touches on the key fundamental points about why 1X is for fools if you race, such as much higher friction in the chain, insufficient gearing range, and the 1X chain will pop off the front chain ring despite what the marketing tells you that it won't. I totally agree with everything in this video and why I ride 2X and 3X.


Horrible video with horrible talking. Take this to the MTB forums for discussion.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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The Brownlees used a 1x system racing at ITU London when it was at Hyde Park. But that was a flat race so the cassette didn't need to have much range on it.

http://road.cc/...-force-1x-drivetrain

Don't know whether they had a clutch system or not or SRAM removed that part. On my MTB for example you can turn the clutch off.

Where I live is really undulating with a few proper hills so I'll be sticking to my 34/50 11-32 although I love the idea of the simplicity of a 1x.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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I really don't get it either. Ok some courses are relatively flat but all IM and a majority of 70.3 races I have done including Kona I used my smallest gear generally a 41 x 26 at some stage for an extended period of time and I have used my biggest gear 54 x 11 for a period of time. I also like the small differences between gears. It is all about maximum efficiency and not cooking the legs so you can run. Why have oversize dérailleur pulleys and ceramic bearings as the extra friction in your drive line when at either extreme will well exceed and friction saving gains.

Racing aside I do a lot of training on my race bike including hills for training or just to make it a nice course and once again I am using granny gear for a period of time or a relatively small gear doing long or recovery rides. I have been curious as to why you would even want to use a 1X and people have their reasons but I personally can see negatives and no advantages. Just my opinion so curious to see what the consensus is???
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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I've got both 1x and 2x setups. If I were racing muddy CX on relatively flat courses, I would totally be 1x. Same for if my TTs were mostly flat on the road. I've got 1x on my FS MTB (which I don't race) and like it, but still prefer my 2x10 on my 29er HT. At the end of the day, your gearing choices shouldn't be based on marketing...it should be based on where and how you ride. Remember, there are people who still use triples...for a reason...;)

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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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My first 1x ride ever was a win at Ironman Wisconsin. I did it on fewer watts than I expected and went faster than expected. On a course like Ironman Wisconsin I would have to shift in and out of the big ring so many times on the rollers it was SoOOOOOooo nice NOT to. My chain fell off more with 2x than it does with 1x. At Wildflower on NastyGrade I passed no less than four competitors and they just weren't a little bit in front of me in some cases. You would think with the energy sapping nature of being in the 54-32t I would have been robbing myself of power and wouldn't have been able to make the passes, but not the case.

Now I don't think 1x is right for everyone but it is great for me..


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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Thomas Gerlach] [ In reply to ]
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I think that's the big part it depends. Shocking I know. I think you'll start running into a lot of people that buy them because it's the next cool thing and don't have the power to manage hills with them. I know you can handle hills and I probabaly could in the Midwest. But coming out here in Colorado if you got on the wrong course as an age grouper you may get your butt kicked by not having enough gears.

Unfortunately the concept of changing chainrings/cassettes based on the course is a completely foreign concept. I remember when Jack and I were down in Branson he was doing the half and I was just doing the sprint and people were petrified of the bike course hills. I'm like just change the gears you have, but that's just not in most people's wheel house.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Hybridlete wrote:
But you missed the most important point in the video relevant to TT/Tri, the higher chain friction caused by the clutch type derailleurs used by 1X setups due to the need for higher tension imparted by the derailleur. You lose power going with a 1X setup compared to 2X. It makes no sense to use 1X.

The hearing may not be for every rider or every terrain, so that is very personal/situational. The increased friction is a valid point, albeit one for which there isn't a lot of good data to help quantify how much the increased friction is actually costing, wattage wise. Are whether or not the losses from chain tension are made up for by: lower friction from bigger derailleur pulleys; more efficient chainring; aero savings from loss of FD.

I can't imagine the increased tension is all that significant. I was surprised by how little spring tension is actually in a clutch derailleur - the way people talk it's like some super stiff spring you can barely move, but it's not that much more that a regular derailleur.

I think it should be pretty clear that 1x is not for everyone. Speed/efficiency are some reasons but maybe problematic to reach real conclusions on. If potential friction losses keep you up at night and you'd rather play it safe, that's as legit a reason as any to keep the status quo. But for others the aero savings, simplicity, and end to chain drops is the other end of the "peace of mind" equation.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Shambolic] [ In reply to ]
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Shambolic wrote:
I really don't get it either. Ok some courses are relatively flat but all IM and a majority of 70.3 races I have done including Kona I used my smallest gear generally a 41 x 26 at some stage for an extended period of time and I have used my biggest gear 54 x 11 for a period of time.

I bet it's WAY less time than you actually think it is. The reason I'd bet that is because I used a d-fly for a while and had ACTUAL information on my gear choices (running 52 x 11/28) and I was very surprised at how minimal the times were at either end of the spectrum.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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I've been racing 1x on the mtb for 6 years and I have never had a chain drop. if it can survive a rock garden I am pretty sure you won't have a problem in a tt.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [ClayDavis] [ In reply to ]
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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He didn't mention friction due to chain tension. At least not that kind of chain tension. I haven't seen good data on that yet. It's possible there are some losses.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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But you're also assuming the need for a clutch RD. I think it's been beaten to death on 1x threads that there is no need for a clutch RD for TT/tri unless doing off road races if you have a narrow wide chainring. Been using 1x for over a year and love it. I live in Chicago so it's flat and never used small ring anyway. Using xsync chain ring and my red RD with no issues. Knock on wood...

Hybridlete wrote:
But you missed the most important point in the video relevant to TT/Tri, the higher chain friction caused by the clutch type derailleurs used by 1X setups due to the need for higher tension imparted by the derailleur. You lose power going with a 1X setup compared to 2X. It makes no sense to use 1X.

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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [trail] [ In reply to ]
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trail wrote:
He didn't mention friction due to chain tension. At least not that kind of chain tension. I haven't seen good data on that yet. It's possible there are some losses.

If I remember correctly, Ceramic Speed mention the difference in friction for the different spring tension setting on their cage. I want to say 0.8 watts for the different tensions.

As far as why you would do 1x? How about the 2 watts I saved by removing my front derailleur. That is 20% of the difference between the best bikes in the aero shootout and it costs about 70$ for a chainring. If you are using Di2 I would expect 3-4 watt saved NGOs, because the electric front derailuers are YUGE!
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Grant.Reuter] [ In reply to ]
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Grant.Reuter wrote:


Unfortunately the concept of changing chainrings/cassettes based on the course is a completely foreign concept. I remember when Jack and I were down in Branson he was doing the half and I was just doing the sprint and people were petrified of the bike course hills. I'm like just change the gears you have, but that's just not in most people's wheel house.


The principal component makers don't facilitate optimally gearing to the course/conditions by cassette changes anymore. Pretty much all 11 speed cassettes have an 11-tooth small cog, anchoring your top end. On a flat, no-wind course, I can throw on a close ratio cassette, but I'm stuck with an 11 and/or 12 tooth cog I probably won't use at all. Hooray, my 2x11 drivetrain just effectively became a 2x9! IMHO, ideally you'd want a wide-range with a 11-tooth tall gear, a mid-range with a 12 tooth top gear, and a close ratio with a 13 tooth top gear. Neither Shimano nor SRAM support this.

Swapping the cassette requires a rear derailleur fine-tune at most. Changing chainring(s) requires a complete adjustment of the front derailleur, including the vertical alignment, which is more than I'd like to do on short notice.

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Last edited by: gary p: Jul 8, 17 8:15
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [grumpier.mike] [ In reply to ]
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grumpier.mike wrote:

As far as why you would do 1x? How about the 2 watts I saved by removing my front derailleur. That is 20% of the difference between the best bikes in the aero shootout and it costs about 70$ for a chainring. If you are using Di2 I would expect 3-4 watt saved NGOs, because the electric front derailuers are YUGE!


But you have like at least 5 watts of additional drag from the gigantic cassette on the wheel and another 5 watts of drag from the gigantic and ungainly rear derailleur sticking way out in the wind. 2X systems are much more aero. It is absurd to imply that you would improve the overall aerodynamics of a bike with 1X when it is plainly visible that you now have a very visible and unaero contraption by the rear wheel.
Last edited by: Hybridlete: Jul 8, 17 8:39
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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If the guy who created the video thinks 1X is so bad why is every one of his bikes a 1X he even converted his 2X bikes to 1X, makes no sense.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [MacCTD] [ In reply to ]
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MacCTD wrote:
If the guy who created the video thinks 1X is so bad why is every one of his bikes a 1X he even converted his 2X bikes to 1X, makes no sense.

Because he bought into the 1X marketing hype and now realizes 1X is very poor for racing.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [jrielley] [ In reply to ]
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Agree with this.

I use a regular sram mech with a NORMAL chainring, I have had zero chain drops, by keeping good tension on the chain. Not too much mind. There seems to be no friction.
The chainring is new and not worn.

In races I use a chainring with a normal sram mech with a carbon chainring with longer teeth, again, zero chain drops.

I have used a clutch mech in races that were a bit bumpier.

I don't think a clutched mech is required at all.

All of this with no chain catcher.

I love the the simplicity of 1x, but for me it allows a narrow Q factor that a double just doesn't allow on my TT bike. I have used this for very hilly courses with no issue.
Partly because despite having a 32 at the back it rarely gets used, most of the time I'm in the 25/23/21/19, which provides a very nice and efficient chain line.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [gary p] [ In reply to ]
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gary p wrote:

The principal component makers don't facilitate optimally gearing to the course/conditions by cassette changes anymore. Pretty much all 11 speed cassettes have an 11-tooth small cog, anchoring your top end. On a flat, no-wind course, I can throw on a close ratio cassette, but I'm stuck with an 11 and/or 12 tooth cog I probably won't use at all. Hooray, my 2x11 drivetrain just effectively became a 2x9! IMHO, ideally you'd want a wide-range with a 11-tooth tall gear, a mid-range with a 12 tooth top gear, and a close ratio with a 13 tooth top gear. Neither Shimano nor SRAM support this.

Swapping the cassette requires a rear derailleur fine-tune at most. Changing chainring(s) requires a complete adjustment of the front derailleur, including the vertical alignment, which is more than I'd like to do on short notice.

Except with 1x. Then you can swap rings at will. Maybe you have to adjust chain length. But trackies do this all the time, and just keep extra chains if necessary. So that is a bonus of 1x - ease or ring-change.

I do like the XDR XD freehub on the Strada 1x. I think having a 10-tooth cog makes 1x make a whole lot more sense.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [Hybridlete] [ In reply to ]
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Hybridlete wrote:
MacCTD wrote:
If the guy who created the video thinks 1X is so bad why is every one of his bikes a 1X he even converted his 2X bikes to 1X, makes no sense.


Because he bought into the 1X marketing hype and now realizes 1X is very poor for racing.

So he didn't do the maths to figure out the gear ratios, spent money on all those bikes, found himself spinning out and then made a video about it?

Interesting thing is many of us have been using 1x before the group sets existed. The way I see things the manufacturers are responding to demand rather than creating hype. Choice is good. You think they don't want to sell me an expensive electronic front derailleur?
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [OddSlug] [ In reply to ]
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The problem with 1x11 is that you have to choose one: tight spacing or range. I think this is probably why 2x systems didn't really eliminate 3x systems until 10 speed drive trains were introduced. The same thing will probably happen with 1x - with 11 speed it's kind of niche if you don't need a wide range or don't mind large jumps on the cassette. 1x12 starts to improve the situation and if 1x13 is ever introduced I think that's where it will really be viable as a total replacement for 2x.
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Re: Really Good Video on Why 1X Drivetrains Are Bad For Racing [ In reply to ]
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I think the hype part of this is the need for a Clutch RD and narrow/wide chain rings. Now I will agree that narrow/wide does help but I have been using 1X in MTB for over a decade which no clutch RD and no narrow/wide ring. I have dropped the chain maybe 2-3 times max.

The video has so many false claims with no real facts. Does anyone honestly feel that Nino S would be riding 1x if it was inferior. This guys is OCD with gear.

In regards to triathlon a 1x system is actually a better chain line than running a 2x system because the single rings is now perfectly between where the big ring and small ring used to be. When I was racing I would almost never shift into my small ring and 95% in my larger ring and that is running my 11/28 cassette. I have not had to change cassettes as I know the 11/28 works perfectly, I have not installed a clutch RD and my Fibre-Lyte spiderless chainring works amazingly well with ZERO dropped chains.

I do believe that it is very dependent on the riding and racing that you do. I do ride 2x when out training (with wife) and for Fondo's but would never need 2x for any of the racing I am currently doing.
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