Coach vs Plan typically comes down to this.....

Do you have enough knowledge of basic training principles and the commitment to follow and execute a plan on your own? You don't have to be rocket science smart about training principles and what you need to know can be learned but that adds another requirement, the time and desire to learn.

If the answer is yes, pick a Joe Friel plan and pick up his book Triathlete's Training Bible and get to work.

If the answer is no, hire a coach.

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Rodney
TrainingPeaks | Altra Running | RAD Roller
http://www.goinglong.ca

Oddly enough Joe's book was donated to my cause temporarily by the teammate who I quoted in my novel of a forum post.
I am leaning that way but think I want to hear what a coach has to say about their package first.

I do have the basics down though what it comes down to is the nagging issues with dehydration
at the 70.3 distance slugging down 5 bottles of gatorade or skratch labs.
Still haven't nailed the 4th discipline of triathlon. The nutrition.

What taunts me is the designer products like Levelen and Infiniti. While buddies
I work with are killing it eating pop tarts on the bike and 2 bottles of water.

Though you bring up a solid point.
You buy bread at a corner store for a dollar more than at the supermarket.
Because of the convenience. Its a luxury of not having to walk into a huge store.

At this point in my life I have forgot what it means to be bored.
Thus time is a luxury I only have so much currency left each day.
Perhaps the piece of mind may be worth the surcharge.

To be continued.

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

Quick Update :

Exchanged a few emails with Coach A.
Polite, timely and knowledgeable. Sounds good so far.

I want to be able to compare to something else though.

Can anyone speak for experience working with a TP program.

Is it just a big PDF with what workouts on what days?
Charts and graphs with zones?

The preview page for the program doesnt really yield much info.
Which if I was selling that product - I would do the same.

I would really appreciate anyones input on their history with a TP program.

Thank you in advance.

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

I can barely speak with experience. I'm in week three of a Matt Fitzgerald marathon* plan on TP. The workouts are automatically populated into my calendar all the way to my race, and I can upload them to my Forerunner 610 (it's awkward, but it can be done). The strength workouts have attachments with detailed instructions on the moves. The running workouts are what they are - they're more structured than what I've done on my own in the past though it's probably been 5 years since I trained for a marathon outside of IM.

Perhaps the thing I like the best is having to think a lot less about workouts. I've followed Joe Friel's Your Best Triathlon for the last few years and the thing that bums me out is having to translate the workouts into TP. For a while, I actually gave myself a half hour workout credit for sitting down every few weeks and building the workouts so that I didn't have to carry the book everywhere. I haven't even found a legit digital copy of the book.

During the plan, I am adding swim and bike workouts to maintain those and will increase them in the future (while probably dropping some of the runs) to transition to IM. Then I'll probably buy another build/peak training plan to get me to IM Muskoka.

To the cost... it doesn't even register. I bought wheels last year and paid more in tax on them. At some point in the future, I would like to try out live coaching within a tri club but it really doesn't fit my lifestyle (specifically, kids) right now.

*Yes, I know... "Don't do a spring marathon if you're doing a late summer IM". I've got my reasons.

Cheers!

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Munq

I considered a coach as well, but decided that the hassle/expense wasn't worth it. I use TP but the plans are behind a firewall, so I feel like it is difficult to choose the one that is best for you without a recommendation, especially when most of them are ~$100

Here's what I am doing (self coached 70.3) after reading a bunch on ST and a few books; just an option that has worked well for me thus far:

Swim: 2-3x master workouts per week, up to ~12,000m/week
Bike: Trainer Road Sweet Spot Base, Build & Tri plans
Run : BarryP plan up to 40 mpw (search and find on this forum)

I have integrated these workouts into 14 day blocks per Matt Dixon's approach in the Well Built Triathlete. On average this is 14 workouts per week ranging from 13-16 hours per week. This can be adjusted up/down depending on your run volume and which TR bike program you choose. Good Luck.

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Strava

How did you end up choosing that course?
I dont expect you to say "Im feeling stronger and faster already yadda yadda."
Though do you feel like it is simple enough to say "Oh I can do this and figure it out."

One thing that really piqued my interest was the 12 week program that is power based by Joe Friel.
Really the only reason why- I just bought a power meter and want to get the bang for buck.

I imagine day 1 you go set your heart rate zones and what not as well.

I dont want you to copy and paste your workouts from the program as I know you paid for it - not looking to steal / get a free program out of this.
Just making sure it is the right program for me.

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

Ok This is what I wanted to hear.
100% ok.

Yes I love that idea of just having the plan for me laid out. Setting my my schedule has been tough.
What about Friels plan was tough on that?

If using Friels "http://home.trainingpeaks.com/...-goal-9-30-or-faster"
Would that make it easier? Cause its all going through TP?

OR would I still have to do all the calculations and want to stab myself in the eye like you are stating?


It just kicks me in the side of the head that this is a $120 plan, or I can pay a coach $150 a month for 10 months.
I mean... yeah....

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

I can only speak for myself on this but in terms of a coach vs TP plan.. this is the benefits I see in a coach.

#1 you have someone watching your progress and are held accountable
#2 You have instant communication with someone if things aren't going perfectly (they rarely do)
#3 You have a knowledgable source who realizes that your family had an emergency so you missed workout x... but will counter that with workout y or z on a different day
#4 You have someone keeping you in check regarding overtraining/over-reaching
#5 in terms of nutrition (i'd be careful here).. you have someone to shoot ideas off of and to sit down and look at your nutrition plan... that being said, very few coaches are actual registered dieticians or sports nutritionist... so take that for what its worth.
#6 you have someone to discuss the struggles of the mental battle and psychological motivation tricks/tips/cues/ etc

Now.. will a TP plan work.. sure.. absolutely. Training principles like another poster mentioned aren't too complex when you sit down and learn them. What makes them not simple though is that they relate differently to every person because each individual is different and unique. Yes, you can say specificity and peak weeks and overreach and tss... and that is all great for each person. But honestly the art of coaching comes when you look at the athlete first and then figure out how each training principle and strategy works in their lives for their goals. That is what I believe you miss with a TP plan.

Obviously I will error on the side of a coach because that is what I do and that is what I believe in. But I just wanted to give you the perspective that I see in choosing a coach over a pre-planned training program.

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COROS Sports Science

While I've never used the TP plans specifically I did follow a plan last year and this year I've gone with one from Sansego. I'm not a coach, trainer or phiso but in training I've learned how to "tune" into my body quiet well. I'm also disciplined enough to stick to a plan that's been mapped out. Sure it's not tailored to me per sae, but last year it did yield good results. It also takes some of the guessing games out of the equation and allows me to focus on being an athlete.

Coaching is more dynamic and they can adjust things on the fly to tailor things more towards what you're body is doing. My issue with coaching is if you can't be on the pool deck, track or out on the road with me why am I paying you? To review my data online and give me a workout? I can get 1/2 of that from my plan and the other half, if I listen to my body and make minor adjustments I can fumble through half way proficiently on my own. Not to say a coach wouldn't be much better at it than me I'm just not dishing out $300/mo to shrink that proficiency gap I'll save it for race fees.

What would be great is a coach that consults with self coached athletes. Say I give them my latest 6 week training results and my next 6 week plan and they tell me if I am on the right track or not. I'd pay $30-50 for a 1-2 hour consultation to "steer" me in the right direction.

Back to the OG question about the plans. I've heard good things about the Dave Scott, Siri Lindley and Brett Sutton plans on there. I'm sure the Joel Friel one is also good having familiarity with his background in the sport.

(I'm no expert so take all this with a grain of salt. To the coaches please no offense intended what you do is valuable to the right person without a doubt!)

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Dale your honest approach is refreshing to hear.

I have had some bad experiences with coaches and a pretty decent one with one (for free - more on that in a sec)

Nutrition issues -
Working with a sports medicine doc in jersey. Sweat analysis and a vo2 max test thus far.
Prescribed me Qvar and ProAir as I am borderline Athletics induced asthma.
Once I have the sweat analysis I think Ill be taking a giant step forward when those results come back.

Coaching -
Had done the Outseason project with TriDot last season.
Was basically free. Had a coach that emailed me once a week. Just went over our results.
Did pretty well. Set my fastest 5k after that training.
*Note that this was a cookie cutter program and when my free trial was over I was offered the low level plan which was basically just setting up a schedule for me much like TP.
Response to your coaching
Yes having someone accountable is important. Though when the bell rings you swim bike and run on your own.
The custom program is nice. Though the Joe Friel programs have this blurb at the bottom:
By purchasing this plan you become a TrainingBible Coaching-supported athlete and may direct questions to the coaches at TrainingBible. Within a week of purchasing the plan you will receive emailed instructions for how to seek help.
This gives me a warm and fuzzy. Its not just a PDF. It is a little more.
What kicks me in the face here is its 30$ less than 1 month of a coach. I Just cant figure that out. I mean --- if I sound cheap and you need to slap me - do it.

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

I feel you! Preach ! Id pay 100$ for an hour session to go over 1-2x a month or so from gameday. Thats what I would much rather. But if I was a coach. Id like to feed my family and get that sustained income.

Currently the coaching structure is the opposite of Amazon.com.
Its a sellers market and not buyers. (Retailers working with amazon have to go through the ringer)

Id love to become an elite triathlete. The real question here.
Will I get there on this program? Maybe not.
Will I get there with a living breathing coach via email? I dunno either.
If I was a college athlete with a coach following my every move. More likely. I cant afford that kind of attention unfortunately.

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

The only tough thing about mapping Friel's plan into TP was that I had to do it. I guess I was mostly being cheap - I already had the books, why should I pay for the plan as well. Given my current experience, I completely expect that I will get a plan next time.

cheers!

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Munq

Yeah I'd love to be elite too but I've read somewhere it takes 5-7 years of sustained progression season after season and by that time i'd be 40 and you'd be 36 so that ain't going to happen for either of us. All we can aim for is AG Worlds and now that is another thing altogether. If I made it that far with a good result I assume grabbing a coach wouldn't be as tough if you can lend credentials to his empire.

I think you could feed your family as a coach doing things how I mentioned. You'd still have your steady stream of income but instead of taking on say 10 athletes take on 9 and use the reserved time to make a higher margin on the "check in/out" athletes just looking for a coaching barometer. I'd actually argue that if you and I would pay for it there are many others who would as well. Coaches want that "residual income" however so you'd have to make it a subscription where they assess you 3-4 times a year perhaps and you pay a lump sum.

We're podium dreamers with holes burning in our pockets it appears hahaha

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

Dave Welby if you're here -

I told him that I was 29 and the ship had sailed for being a pro (at ice hockey, which is legit - there are no rookies that are regular starters in the majors 25+ Id say)
His response was mildly jarring. "Thats a terrible attitude."

What I said may or may have factual backing. Though he is entirely correct.
Are we gonna have a breakout year this year and laugh at Ben Hoffman down the chute? No. No were not.
We can get a start on being better athletes. With better habits.

My career in IT became easier as a whole by coming to the table with a better attitude.
I smile at work rather than grimacing.

I love my pain cave the same way.
Don't sell yourself short. Start with AG and Worlds.
Build from there.

Update on my decision making:
Talking with the friend from earlier. Her new job will allow her the free time to take a look at workouts and I am incredibly diligent on sticking to my scheduled workouts. So this may prove as a very viable option...

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

Great points indeed! However to me there is positive, which I feel targeting AG Worlds is a realistic goal, vs delusional a 40 year old elite pro. There is nothing wrong in my mind with being honest about your goals and being satisfied by them when/if you achieve them. I would never train with any less vigor for either however I wouldn't want an unattainable goal demotivate me and diminish my feelings towards an AG World accomplishment.

I agree being positive is key and in this case it's just a matter of perspective I think. Perhaps you are an outlier and have natural gifts so I shouldn't have spoken for you. In my case however I feel I train with as much dedication as one can and my peak accomplishment would be AGW.

Agree to disagree !! lol

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"Train so you have no regrets @ the finish line"

I didnt mean to step on toes!

Meant more to motivate you and I.
We can even be friends at the same races as we dont intrude on ag's!

Maybe a step by step goal. Or an AG elite :-)

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

I guess it depends on your personal accountability and motivation (huge part), how much you are willing to spend to support your hobby, and how much more can you learn on your own.

I've never had a coach. Using Training Peaks (free) with a slightly modified plan from Matt Fitzgerald ($70). Have a few tri books ($30) too that I use as a resouce. Pretty much gotten faster in each of the last five years by adapting and learning. Pretty much just swim, bike and run harder.

I enjoy the journey more than the "race" iteself and really don't care if I make some mistakes. The reality is you will still make them even if you have a coach. I would not get a coach becuase you have nutrition issues.

I'm sure many of the plans are the same, but I will tell you that every workout on Matt's plans are very detailed. No confusion about what to do. Now, what you do with it (how fast your swim/run/ride your intervals, how much recovery you need, etc) is still up to you. The good news about Training Peaks is you will have a log of every one of those workouts to compare it against. Plus you can change anything and everything on the plan as you please. The only downside to this direction is there is nobody there to say "great job". LOL

3Aims -

You should get a job with TP.
Could sell this stuff to some good looking single moms.
Just sayin...

I agree with you. Which is probably why Im sitting on the bubble going
"is this coach going to spoon feed me what I need to be the best athlete I can be?"

The answer is no.


Dream outcome is that the sweat test comes back.
Doc tells me to take this much salt etc the day before a 70.3
and take this much more salt for a 140.3
#RockThatSh!t
(id love to see that on a script pad...)

So Im highly favoring the TP plans.

Here is probably the last answer that ST can provide for me. Then I need to make my decision.

I want to hammer NOLA 70.3.
IF I do well at NOLA I want to do Cozumel in November.

Do I buy two separate plans? Adapt an IM one for a 70.3?
Do some crazy hybrid?

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

I'm just a little bit biased... a tiny bit. But I agree with this ^^^^^

Time is money. If you want to spend a couple hours a week sifting through your data and building you plan, then hire yourself as a coach. It's OK to try that, then later fire yourself and hire a coach. Some pros have gone back and forth even. At different point in your "career" you may need different things.

Good luck on your decision.

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TrainingBible Coaching
http://www.trainingbible.com

Hah! You must be a little torn...

Seeing as you work for TB and Coach for TB....

Im thinking of "value"

Will having the hand holding at 150$ feel good fuzzies all year long.
Or will I regret the money that could go towards a full IM?

I dunno.

I do feel like I am going to go with a 70.3 coach in a can.
See if i like it. And it goes well for NOLA. I will pay for the IM one.

If not - Ill go with the coach after Nola.

Sound logical? Anyone think this is a terrible idea and I need a smack?

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

I think your best bet is to go with the voices in your head. Let them coach you this season. Please report in every week and let us know how it's going ( - :

Every week?

Not sure I am the ST success story material.

Ill do what I can though!

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

So I was just PM'd asking how the coach vs canned coach approach was going.

I did go back on my word and ended up forking over cash and got a coach.

She kicks my ass.
She sets up my workouts weeks at a time.
She asks how I feel.
She does not tuck me in.

Just so you can see what gains / losses I have gone through here is the athlinks.

http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390


Im not a pro and wont be any time in the near future but you can see that a lot changed from last year.


Shaved an hour off of my half best.


Shaved a minute + off my 10 miler.


Not ending up in medical tents as much (running a half iron with a sinus infection does do some strange stuff to your body - definitely not her fault.)


Though as I type this, the number one thing she did do is get me healthy and nail my nutrition.
What to eat. When to eat. Power zones. HR zones. Timing. Strategy.

It came at a price. Though I needed those things or I would be just under 6hrs still for a half.


I can definitely recommend my coach if anyone is looking for one for next year but any questions and I can answer away.


Humble gains but they are gains.

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http://www.athlinks.com/athletes/208730390

More often than not, a worth while coach is more valuable than a pre-scripted plan.
One compromise is that some will do "consultations". An hour session to set up a number of weeks of training. Meet again, to set up the next few weeks.
This is often cheaper than a full-time coach but more personal than a scripted plan.

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I talk a lot - Give it a listen: http://www.fasttalklabs.com/category/fast-talk
I also give Training Advice via http://www.ForeverEndurance.com

The above poster has eschewed traditional employment and is currently undertaking the ill-conceived task of launching his own hardgoods company. Statements are not made on behalf of nor reflective of anything in any manner... unless they're good, then they count.
http://www.AGNCYINNOVATION.com