JoelO is right on with the JonnyO video. For me, the revelation was the rotation that must happen of your entire arm before entry into the water - the Sharpie mark on the elbow is a great way to visualize.
Here is what worked for me:
Do 3X per week in addition to your normal swimming (I usually do on days that I don’t swim):
7x 1 min on/ 1min rest
(Or 42 min, 51.5 min - whatever)
Start out really slow (like 10 strokes a minute for the first 3 weeks) then slowly progress to your normal swim cadence.
Is it just me or are her arms really, really, really long?
Are you sure it is not a shoulder/scapula mobility issue that is limiting your capacity to master EVF?
I see this so so often with many athletes. If you look at any videos of good swimmers you will see that at the point of commencement of early vertical forearm their rotation is such that the angle shown above in red is quite closed (extension and retraction).
If you lack the mobility to internally rotate the shoulder at that EVF commencement due to closure of the above angle the only way to address this is by changing the timing of your stroke in relation to your rotation.
No catch drills will fix a lack of mobility. But some timing and rotation drills will enable you to find the point at which you can commence the EVF you seek, this may be such that you commence when your body is in a flatter position in the water than rotated over to the lead catching arm side.
Hope that makes sense.
Best,
David
Are you sure it is not a shoulder/scapula mobility issue that is limiting your capacity to master EVF?
I see this so so often with many athletes. If you look at any videos of good swimmers you will see that at the point of commencement of early vertical forearm their rotation is such that the angle shown above in red is quite closed (extension and retraction).
If you lack the mobility to internally rotate the shoulder at that EVF commencement due to closure of the above angle the only way to address this is by changing the timing of your stroke in relation to your rotation.
No catch drills will fix a lack of mobility. But some timing and rotation drills will enable you to find the point at which you can commence the EVF you seek, this may be such that you commence when your body is in a flatter position in the water than rotated over to the lead catching arm side.
Hope that makes sense.
Best,
David
Pretty much this,
If you look at most AOS or older triathlete swimmers most do not have the ability (mobility) to internally rotate the shoulder BEFORE the elbow needs to go vertical.
Combine this with athletes who can not rotate their neck enough (requiring the whole upper body to rotate to breath) and you have some real challenges.
The hard part as a coach/athlete is to modify technique for the individual so they swim their best (fastest) for any given limitation. (IE as above less rotation, faster return to neutral or flat plain, faster stroke cycle etc)
Maurice
I have found that these special paddles were great as an EVF teaching aid when I have coached adult onset swimmers. But be aware that these are not training paddles, they are technique paddles. They might be worth a try for you:
(no connection of any kind between us and this company, just have had good luck with these paddles)
I’d suggest getting a gopro underwater camera and video your stroke as you do laps, and modifying your stroke to raise the elbows instead of dropping them/
So my big swim project for the off-season is to develop my catch, specifically the EVF (early vertical forearm) also known as high elbow catch.
I know what to do, I’ve watched a thousand YouTube videos, I just can’t figure out how to do it. My arms just don’t want to work that way. My elbow always drops and I pull with my upper arm too early so my forearm never gets vertical.
Can anybody offer any cues or visualizations to help me master this? Drills?
On the way home from the pool tonight, a friend told me to ensure my hand always enters the water thumb first. He said that forces me to rotate the shoulder thus setting my arm up for the EVF.
Does this make sense? I haven’t tried it yet.
I’ve also heard the one about reaching over the hood of a car but that one makes no sense to me,
HELP!
Thanks!
I would also try visualizing your forearm as a paddle. And implement that visualization with fist drills - swim with closed fists. You’ll need to get that forearm vertical pretty quick to get any forward momentum. Use a pull buoy, if you must. Alternate with a length of fist and a length of open hand concentrating on having your rams move the same way as with closed fists. Repeat this about 10 million times. I think this is the same concept to help reduce heel strike in running - run barefoot.
I have found that these special paddles were great as an EVF teaching aid when I have coached adult onset swimmers. But be aware that these are not training paddles, they are technique paddles. They might be worth a try for you:
(no connection of any kind between us and this company, just have had good luck with these paddles)
This looks awesome…I have to get some:
OK, I went to order, but by the time I pay shipping and conversion to $CAD I am sitting at $82 CAD! Worth it or not? In the scope of all the shit we spend on bike gear probably worth more in savings than anything I can buy for my bike…but still!!!
You may not have the ability to internally rotate your shoulder, this is quite common. The life long swimmers who have the very
high elbow recovery have the oposite problem and many have very messed up shoulders also (or so my physio says)
Check this out
Anyone try these from FINIS. I can get them for half of the price of the others on this thread.
I have not tried the finis paddles. But I wonder if, instead, you contact that tech paddle people, and then ask them if they would be willing to ship US Postal Service 1st class international to Canada? Then there should be no brokerage fees and the postal rates should be fairly reasonable. We ship many of our Speedpacks to Canada this way.
I have not tried the finis paddles. But I wonder if, instead, you contact that tech paddle people, and then ask them if they would be willing to ship US Postal Service 1st class international to Canada? Then there should be no brokerage fees and the postal rates should be fairly reasonable. We ship many of our Speedpacks to Canada this way.
I THINK the Finis paddles have the geometry backwards for the full effect. Sure the Finis forces you to swim with no break in the wrist but that is it. The other ones look like they create additional neural feedback to try and apply force with the forearm. I’ll contact them to see about USPS first class (maybe a Postal blue train lead by George Hincapie will deliver it to my front door too).
Another option with the tech paddles to reduce shipping costs might be to do a group buy with a few other athletes in Canada ? Because even buying a few sets would great reduce the shipping cost for each set. Or so I would think.
Here is what worked for me:
Do 3X per week in addition to your normal swimming (I usually do on days that I don’t swim):
7x 1 min on/ 1min rest
(Or 42 min, 51.5 min - whatever)
Start out really slow (like 10 strokes a minute for the first 3 weeks) then slowly progress to your normal swim cadence.
When Sheila T was coaching my Masters team last year, she would set up a halo bench with tubing on deck. We would take turns during swim sets to hop up on the bench and go through a few sets of pulls, while she critiqued our catch & pull arm path. Still do it 2-3 times a week as part of my dryland workout. I had problems with flexibility in my shoulders and it has really helped me to learn to extend my scapulae forward and set my catch further out front.
Mark
Here is what worked for me:
Do 3X per week in addition to your normal swimming (I usually do on days that I don’t swim):
7x 1 min on/ 1min rest
(Or 42 min, 51.5 min - whatever)
Start out really slow (like 10 strokes a minute for the first 3 weeks) then slowly progress to your normal swim cadence.
When Sheila T was coaching my Masters team last year, she would set up a halo bench with tubing on deck. We would take turns during swim sets to hop up on the bench and go through a few sets of pulls, while she critiqued our catch & pull arm path. Still do it 2-3 times a week as part of my dryland workout. I had problems with flexibility in my shoulders and it has really helped me to learn to extend my scapulae forward and set my catch further out front.
Mark
Did you buy your own halo? Worth it?
I have found that these special paddles were great as an EVF teaching aid when I have coached adult onset swimmers. But be aware that these are not training paddles, they are technique paddles. They might be worth a try for you:
(no connection of any kind between us and this company, just have had good luck with these paddles)
Going to order a set of these myself… the recommended paddle from Tower 26 aka Gerry Rodrigues as well.
That said, the tech paddles looks like a fancy way of doing the “fist drill”. I suppose the paddle portion on the forearm “does something” to promote/aid in EVF. I’ll be ordering so I’ll find out.
I think you’ll see that they do more than just a the fists drill, they were worth it for me, for myself and even more so as a teaching tool to use with others.
Going to order a set of these myself… the recommended paddle from Tower 26 aka Gerry Rodrigues as well.
That said, the tech paddles looks like a fancy way of doing the “fist drill”. I suppose the paddle portion on the forearm “does something” to promote/aid in EVF. I’ll be ordering so I’ll find out.
Yep, I think I’ll get a pair as well. Seems like a reasonable price for a potentially useful training aid.
There are also these: http://www.finisinc.com/Forearm-Fulcrum
I had a pair back in the day (may try to see if I can fish them out), but I never really knew how to use them or what they were supposedly doing.